Sociopath Community

I don't think you're getting what I mean, perhaps a mistake on my part in communication...

Spatial Mind said: 

Lightning is a part of this world and it too serves us as it ionizes the air.

But I'm saying that it's a conscious being throwing lightning bolts and not a natural phenomenon, with every lightning bolt being created by God (let's call that God Zeus). How could inanimate objects create something so complicated? That it could happen through some natural processes without a conscious mind is laughable.

tpp said: 

SpatialMind said:

I don't accept that complex and highly functional code writes itself. You do, i don't. It's that simple.

You don't need to... Rejecting that complex and highly functional code writes itself doesn't necessitate accepting God. I do not believe that complex and highly functional code writes itself.

 For the record, I'm not trying to preach for the prime creator. Just saying why I believe there's a consciousness behind creation. Of course the discussion did lead to that as you asked what is life's purpose.

There are reasons why we feel pain. It's part of another system in place.

The brain is like a supercomputer, estimated to have more cells than stars in the entire universe. It's not even funny how insane these codes are to make this and all else that goes into the physical body.

Everything living has crazy ass ingenious coding. There's these tiny robots inside of us replicating DNA and doing other tasks and following a program. The body is a programmed program. We who are conscious haven't even come close to this.

We can tinker with biology but it'll always be off the shelf and not from scratch. 

Spatial Mind said: 

Through chaos we don't find functional masterpieces, no matter how much we shake a box of junk, we'll never pull from it an automobile. We're more complex than what we've made.

Through chaos you could find quote unquote 'Functional Masterpieces', it'd simply be a matter of the span of said Chaos's reach for how much it'd affect the odds of it's generation. 

Space is huge, dude, it's not that crazy to think this could happen along the same lines as The Infinite Monkey Theorem. 

 Yeah space is huge, and space is said to be above 0 as a substance while Hawking argued it's absolute 0.

The infinite monkey theorem would be a consciousness at play. Unpredictable sure. But self collapsing none the less.

The point of the theorem is that the monkeys represent completely random tapping from having no recognition of words, yet seeing with enough of them that a single one might accidently produce the works of Hamlet from Shakespeare. 

It represents that, within a completely chaotic construct, that something of otherwise purposeful design like that has odds above 0% of being generated. With how large space is, with how many planets are out there that we've seen and have yet to see, it's not that crazy to see Earth as like the Monkey having written Hamlet by happenstance. 

How was bacteria even alive ? We have different explanations, but it's not worthwhile for me to share my thoughts on the matter while I'm subject to ridicule and Odin and all that stuff.

This isn't ridicule... he's not making fun of you with that question he's aiming to illustrate a point about a timeline. He's using a point in history to illustrate a comparative model that's entirely reasonable to question, not mockery. Unless I missed it somewhere he never even said you believe in Thor or Odin, nor did he suggest it would be ridiculous to believe in those gods either beyond the attribution of a former point in history taking him more seriously than it might now overall. 

Just because we understand thunder more now does not disprove Thor's existence, simply how we treat the knowledge in the face of superior understandings in the sciences. 

Effectively Spatial, your idea is that Function denotes Purpose and that Purpose is by Design, figuring that Complexity cannot happen on it's own from attributing a sense of hard coding as if it had Intent behind it. 

I'd say that Function denotes Survival and that Survival is by Filtering, figuring that Complexity can happen as a matter of duration and environment, and that this 'hard coding' is really more of a matter of reinforcement through repetitions that cull out those too weak. 

Our traits are as refined as they are because of what had the best potential, and as we surpass our survival needs we're beginning to see this change. 

tpp said: 

I don't think you're getting what I mean, perhaps a mistake on my part in communication...

Spatial Mind said: 

Lightning is a part of this world and it too serves us as it ionizes the air.

But I'm saying that it's a conscious being throwing lightning bolts and not a natural phenomenon, with every lightning bolt being created by God (let's call that God Zeus).

...

...

..

Okay.

How could inanimate objects create something so complicated? That it could happen through some natural processes without a conscious mind is laughable.

 I don't know if we were made for this environment, or if this environment was made for us, or both. I do know that even the lightning is vital to our survival, which can be listed with other vital elements that keeps the pulse going.

The programmer considered the oxygen which is insanely hard and adds to complexity.

Heat saturates the water and it goes up and forms clouds. This saturation causes pressure which creates wind. The Earth is in motion but 'on the surface alone' there are conditions to create lightning.

Earth is said to have an Iron core.  I don't know how we know this but we'll go with it in good faith. Or won't we ?

Electromagnetic feild creates a shield around the Earth. Very useful if I do say so myself. 

Do I believe Zeus is throwing lightning bolts ? Ask me another question. I find it kinda childish to even bring up Zeus and Thor, but as far as lightning goes, it has without a doubt been considered in our making, hence it being vital. 

Do I believe Zeus is throwing lightning bolts ? Ask me another question. I find it kinda childish to even bring up Zeus and Thor, but as far as lightning goes, it has without a doubt been considered in our making, hence it being vital. 

You're still not getting my point, Spatial.. I am not asking if you believe in Thor. My point is:

Can I not use the same *type* of reasoning as you use to reach the conclusion that Zeus or Thor exist, if I don't have access to the same scientific information I have access to now? Of course now you don't reach that conclusion because, as you say, we understand that Earth has natural conditions to create lightning.

However, how could the ancient peope have known about the natural conditions that create lightning? They couldn't have. So they explained this seemingly unexplainable phenomenon by God. This has happened repeatedly all across History. Whenever there is some seemingly amazing natural phenomenon that takes place, and people have no clue how to explain it, they insert God into there as an explanation.

How could the ancient people have fixed this issue? They could have recognized that there might be some natural process that explains lightning, but that it's difficult to come up with one, given the limited scientific observations and knowledge.

I think we need to have some humility here by admitting that science doesn't have answers to everything and perhaps never will. Let's say it's the origin of life we don't understand now, much like we didn't understand lightning back in the old days.

What is the origin of life? (a) It might be a conscious being, as you say. (b) Or perhaps it's some yet-unexplained natural phenomenon that we simply can't think of. (c) Or it could be a supernatural, non-conscious "thing." (d) Or <insert another explanation>.

Are you willing to accept that there might be some explanation for the origin of life that is natural? I.e., that (b) is a possibility, even if it is exceedingly unlikely?

If so, how did you evaluate that it is exceedingly unlikely? Would the ancient people in the past who conjured Thor have also ruled out natural processes (b) as an explanation using your reasoning? Or not?

Do you understand my question and where I'm going with this?

Look... I don't care about winning an argument. I want to understand how you think. You think this is like an ego thing for me... It's all in your head. I don't care about being viewed as smart. It is factually true that I am smarter than anyone here. There's no ego involved there. I am perfectly happy with you believing in whatever you believe in. I'm explaining why I'm unable to accept these sort of explanations... I'm happy for you if you believe in this stuff. I'd love to believe it. But I can't. I'm explaining to you why I can't.

Feathers said:

There you go... "Waste my life"?. You are confused. I thought about "what if there is no God". I have 2 options. 1. Kill myself (which I tried and was miraculously spared = more to reason I believe). 2, Live as if there is a God and make myself a somewhat sacrificial life (work towards helping others while providing myself life's needs).

I don't think there's a God.... I've considered killing myself several times but I'm too much of a coward to actually do it, the last time was today. I very deeply hate myself. I'm smart and successful, but that's the only thing I've got going for me. I see the door to spiritual development being very much shut for me. The world feels very cold.

It must be nice for SpatialMind to think everything in the world has purpose and was made for him and others like him. For me, the world seems like it was made in such a way that I don't have a place in it. I can't relate with anyone. The only thing I can use to communicate with people is hard facts, and I've become exceedingly good at it, to the point that it bores me. Maybe I should try to be more like David Hume. Live amongst sheep without ever feeling like I belong, catering to their every whim. I'm tired of asking sheep why they do what they do and expecting to hear something I haven't heard. Instead, the responses are like a broken record that keeps playing again and again without the sheep realising just how broken they are. I'm tired. I want to take the "blue pill."

The truth is that life is simple and easy in general. People overcomplicate it themselves. Even if you have a bad draft at life, you need to truly have a terrible one, to be unable to actually enjoy life. kinda sucks then

Good said: 

The truth is that life is simple and easy in general. People overcomplicate it themselves. Even if you have a bad draft at life, you need to truly have a terrible one, to be unable to actually enjoy life. kinda sucks then

That reminds me of this dude who decided to abandon humanity to live as a goat.

I'm fluctuating between depression and loneliness being caused by the human condition vs a chemical imbalance in the brain. Perhaps both. It's not quite as simple as your binary thinking would lead you to believe.

My life is a lonely hell. I feel very strongly that it is because the people around me are too dumb to have a discussion with me on my level. However, at times, I think it might just be a chemical imbalance in the brain. Perhaps lack of oxytocin. There's some evidence that extremely smart (top 0.1%) of the people are lonely. Imagine being surrounded by autists and never being able to have any discussion beyond the.... inane.

tpp said: 

Good said: 

The truth is that life is simple and easy in general. People overcomplicate it themselves. Even if you have a bad draft at life, you need to truly have a terrible one, to be unable to actually enjoy life. kinda sucks then

That reminds me of this dude who decided to abandon humanity to live as a goat.

I'm fluctuating between depression and loneliness being caused by the human condition vs a chemical imbalance in the brain. Perhaps both.

My life is a lonely hell. I feel very strongly that it is because the people around me are too dumb to have a discussion with me on my level. However, at times, I think it might just be a chemical imbalance in the brain. Perhaps lack of oxytocin. There's some evidence that extremely smart (top 0.1%) of the people are lonely. Imagine being surrounded by autists and never being able to have any discussion beyond the.... inane.

That is all nice and dandy, but a lot more not-so-smart people are also lonely. Imagine being so grandiose that you can't let yourself have fun on a basic human level, where you don't need these philosophical discussions. I think that this is the core issue. If you taste that, you won't feel a need to have the high-brow discussions. While those are nice to have, it is not other people, but your own fault to feel shitty, because you have control over yourself and not over others. No matter how much you whine and bitch about how much others suck, they will keep sucking in your eyes and you will feel like shit anyway. Why not take matters into your own hands and build the life you want, despite others? And no, I do not mean to control or eliminate them, that is very unpractical. Adapt to your environment, or fail.

If you want to live as a goat, why would you let anything stop you from getting what you want? Your ego? Your fear of not meeting the expectations of others? Fear of what others will think of you? God?
Only fear, laziness and time stand in the way of every goal. Well, every goal that is within the laws of physics.

I like to bring Tesla, the smart, eccentric, talented guy, that died broke, alone, and in obscurity in discussions like this one. Was he really so smart then? It is not enough to just have a skill set in one specific thing, you need to have the skill set required for your environment to succeed. And the truth is like I said, you do not need a lot of skills, to live a happy life, but you do need them to be successful. To be happy, you mostly need a good mindset, you can be smart or stupid, rich or poor, does not matter.