Message Turncoat in a DM to get moderator attention

Users Online(? lurkers):
Posts: 686
0 votes RE: What is the purpose of your life?
Good said: 
tpp said: 

SpatialMind will love this.

Why would quantum physics one day indicate your mindset has a physical effect on reality..? You should reject this notion based on Occam's razor in lieu of a way to test your hypothesis. There's no reason to think it's your mind that alters the double slit experiment or anything like that.. Mind is not needed to explain anything there. It's like saying it was ghosts or fairies... there's about as much evidence for those.

Because observation affects the quantum state.

Yes. But you smuggled in intent. It's not like there's any reason to think that if you put an ant or a rock to observe the experiment results that it'd be any different.

The intent of observing. That could be just part of the whole shtick.

Or it could be ghosts or fairies. About as much evidence either way.

Not sure how ghosts or fairies tie into this.

See above.

Buttered Toast: (Lolling at a German dude's English grammar)
Posts: 4653
1 votes RE: What is the purpose of your life?

 No matter how much time you give it. The inanimate will never think, nor make mistakes or do anything.

If I isolated a neuron from your brain and kept it alive in a Petri dish, almost no one reasonable would say the cell is thinking.

If we had two of them that interacted in the dish, well one fires across the synapse to the other. But no one reasonable would call a little chemical spray a "thought."

Now if the right side of your head above the orbit got slammed with a baseball bat, damaging your right frontal cortex, and from then on you're stuck in a depressed state and can't draw anymore...Well then we know there was some sort of thinking going on there. All that from a bunch of individual thoughtless things.

Some will call that emergence, some will say the brain is a material interface between the physical and the metaphysical. It doesn't matter either way: We know that what we call experience has a direct correlation with the physical (that's why psych meds work). Does serotonin think? You can certainly feel whether it's present or not. The differentiation between animate and inanimate is a blur, and probably a mirage.

Maybe it even goes a bit further than most consider. Imagine the same conviction (the absolute certainty) someone with hemispatial neglect has that they can perceive the entire visual field before them, when they actually can only register half. Take that conviction and imagine we have that for "experience." I know I am seeing and I have senses, because that's probably the only thing I can ever know truly, right...?

last edit on 12/3/2021 1:27:51 PM
Posts: 686
1 votes RE: What is the purpose of your life?

SpatialMind... I might as well humor this, as I'm at least mildly.... curious about your answer.

You are right that Science can not explain everything. In the past, it was things like lightning and rain.. So we attributed it to Thor, the God of thunder. How else could lightning and rain be created if it was not by conscious design? Nowadays... well, we now know how thunder and rain work.

Why is the existence of DNA or life proof of the supernatural and how is this not you simply inserting God into the gaps in the current scientific knowledge, similarly to what people did in the past to explain lightning?

Suppose you were an ancient person with the limited scientific knowledge they had accessible to them... That is, there was no natural explanation for what could have caused lightning. By your epistemological method.... If you lived during the times of Thor.... Would you have attributed this unexplainable, amazing phenomenon of thunder and rain to a God? Or would your epistemological method which you're using here reject that hypothesis? Why? Why not?

Buttered Toast: (Lolling at a German dude's English grammar)
last edit on 12/3/2021 1:45:18 PM
Posts: 3303
0 votes RE: What is the purpose of your life?
tpp said: 

SpatialMind... I might as well humor this, as I'm at least mildly.... curious about your answer.

You are right that Science can not explain everything. In the past, it was things like lightning and rain.. So we attributed it to Thor, the God of thunder. How else could lightning and rain be created if it was not by conscious design? Nowadays... well, we now know how thunder and rain work.

To be clear. I'm talking about how science has no idea how anything could have been alive to begin with. Once something dies we cannot bring it back, nor do we have the slightest clue how to bring things to life.

I'm not talking about what they might have believed in ancient Greece.

 

Why is the existence of DNA or life proof of the supernatural and how is this not you simply inserting God into the gaps in the current scientific knowledge, similarly to what people did in the past to explain lightning?

Because codeing is a mark of intelligence. DNA is basically 3 dimensional software running off of an operating system. It has protocols and instructions.  The 2 genders FOR EVERY ANIMAL, are not a reoccurring fluke, no that would be retarded sorry, the genders have been intentionally coded to be as they are. The genome carries instructions for DNA to pull together and form a living breathing masterpiece. This is beyond anything we've done to date and we are conscious. 

Light exists, so we're to believe we have eyes over an accident, meanwhile the number of convenient functions we have in our environment is very disrurbing. The gas we breathe in invisible, so the great nothing does it again. As a reminder our eyes have a purpose and they are no good without the presence of light. Where our eyes put there intelligently ? For some of us this is very obvious.

 

Suppose you were an ancient person with the limited scientific knowledge they had accessible to them... That is, there was no natural explanation for what could have caused lightning. By your epistemological method.... If you lived during the times of Thor.... Would you have attributed this unexplainable, amazing phenomenon of thunder and rain to a God? Or would your epistemological method which you're using here reject that hypothesis? Why? Why not?

 Sure. Maybe "we" would say it was Thor or Zeus or some shit.

It's 2021 and I'm on another page and I'm not entertaining the "If you were an ancient thinking it was Thor you're an idiot" I'm talking about a consciousness behind creation not what the ancient Greeks thought about lightning.

The ears the eyes the heart the liver. Even the tailbone all has an intended function. We don't get something from nothing and we are something. We don't survive without plants and the plants don't survive without those who breathe. There's more to it but this is clearly a set up. There's nothing aimless going on here.

As for the dual slit experiment. Yes. Observing it or not determines wheather  the electron falls in line, or if we get an interference pattern. It was this experiment that opened the door for quantum mechanics, even though we don't understand it, we've went on to make lasers and other useful technologies. It's too hairy of a subject to argue, it does what it does, we leave it at that. Many quantum physicists believe in unified super string field theory where consciousness is the underlying component behind reality itself. Einstein said something along the lines of anyone getting into quantum physics will start to believe in God.

Some scientists do some don't. When Stephen Hawking changed his mind on Blackhole theory, he did it on a stage infront of scientists and they all revolted in an uproar of disappointment. None of them can tell you what's up with the dual slit experiment other than it's happening, and we've went on to get a lot of quantum tech out of it.

Posts: 686
0 votes RE: What is the purpose of your life?

To be clear. I'm talking about how science has no idea how anything could have been alive to begin with. Once something dies we cannot bring it back, nor do we have the slightest clue how to bring things to life.

I got that. Yes. Let's say Science does not have any clue about what could explain the origin of life.... So what?

 

 Sure. Maybe "we" would say it was Thor or Zeus or some shit.

It's 2021 and I'm on another page and I'm not entertaining the "If you were an ancient thinking it was Thor you're an idiot" I'm talking about a consciousness behind creation not what the ancient Greeks thought about lightning.

I understood that. Yes.... But you didn't answer the question. Or perhaps you didn't get the question?

Suppose I was living in the ancient world and went about following the same "rules" I follow in drawing conclusions now. I would not reach the conclusion that lightning was caused by Thor or Zeus or some shit, unless there is evidence of Thor or Zeus or some shit.

You, on the other hand, would jump the boat with the rest of the ancient people and say it's Thor and Zeus. Because Science couldn't explain lightning...So people inserted Thor and Zeus into the gaps... Just like Science now can't explain the origin of life. So you insert a creator into the gaps.

In 2400, future tpp and future SpatialMind reincarnated will have this same debate.... And future tpp will point out "in 2021, people believed that DNA was evidence of God, how is the way you're inserting God into the gap in the knowledge of quantum gravity any different from how people in 2021 inserted God into gaps in the knowledge about DNA?" And Future SpatialMind responds: "We live in 2400 now, I am not going to entertain some hypotheticals here."

I am criticizing your epistemology, not.... whatever you think it is I'm criticizing. The way you go about evaluating evidence is flawed. You can always insert a God into places where we don't understand things. You are following the same fallacious thinking that led people to hypothesize Thor and Zeus. Hence the question.... which you were unable to answer.

Buttered Toast: (Lolling at a German dude's English grammar)
last edit on 12/3/2021 3:29:14 PM
Posts: 686
0 votes RE: What is the purpose of your life?
SpatialMind said:
Many quantum physicists believe in unified super string field theory where consciousness is the underlying component behind reality itself. Einstein said something along the lines of anyone getting into quantum physics will start to believe in God.

I don't give a shit if the entire scientific community believes in a flying spaghetti monster. I am convinced by arguments and reasoning and evidence.... Not a popularity vote.

Sigh...... People are like sheep. I follow reason. Am I the only one in the world who does? It's so tiring...

Buttered Toast: (Lolling at a German dude's English grammar)
Posts: 3303
0 votes RE: What is the purpose of your life?
tpp said: 

To be clear. I'm talking about how science has no idea how anything could have been alive to begin with. Once something dies we cannot bring it back, nor do we have the slightest clue how to bring things to life.

I got that. Yes. Let's say Science does not have any clue about what could explain the origin of life.... So what?

I covered it. Science knows we don't get something from nothing and we are something. Even the big bang theory has it's holes cause in the beginning there was nothing, but for the first and only time energy and matter were created. No one knows what could have caused the movement that ignited the big bang though there are theories that it was a self collapsing wave function, and we know a mind is a self collapsing wave function.

Personally I think all matter in this universe came from another place. A place where the materials always existed without a beginning and it was somehow brought here. As for life it was intended to be as it is. Alive. Maybe science will never get to the bottom of this as long as our civilization lasts.

 

 Sure. Maybe "we" would say it was Thor or Zeus or some shit.

It's 2021 and I'm on another page and I'm not entertaining the "If you were an ancient thinking it was Thor you're an idiot" I'm talking about a consciousness behind creation not what the ancient Greeks thought about lightning.

I understood that. Yes.... But you didn't answer the question. Or perhaps you didn't get the question?

I got the question and I answered it in the first sentence. I can elaborate on it but I'd just be saying a whole lot about nothing cause we know how the weather works, including rain, thunder and lightning.

 

Suppose I was living in the ancient world and went about following the same "rules" I follow in drawing conclusions now. I would not reach the conclusion that lightning was caused by Thor or Zeus or some shit, unless there is evidence of Thor or Zeus or some shit.

You, on the other hand, would jump the boat with the rest of the ancient people and say it's Thor and Zeus. Because Science couldn't explain lightning...So people inserted Thor and Zeus into the gaps... Just like Science now can't explain the origin of life. So you insert a creator into the gaps.

Well that isn't the case, and secondly I'm not religious nor do I worship God in the same way the religious do in mass. That's your assumption and from my perspective you assume to to be wiser while you think I'm prone to adopting popular beliefs. 

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, yet in theory it happened in the beginning. While it's a theory no one can confirm or deny this, so there's nothing wrong with questioning that.

Here we're talking about what science does not know. The question was what is the purpose of life. I had my answer and I broke down how every component in your body, the hands, wrist, forearm,  elbow, bicep, shoulder for example, has a purpose. No arguing that.

 

In 2400, future tpp and future SpatialMind reincarnated will have this same debate.... And future tpp will point out "in 2021, people believed that DNA was evidence of God, how is the way you're inserting God into the gap in the knowledge of quantum mechanics any different from how people in 2021 inserted God into gaps in the knowledge about DNA?" And Future SpatialMind responds: "We live in 2400 now, I am not going to entertain some hypotheticals here."

That's pretentious. 

As a matter of fact, the DNA is running like software. It's self sustaining within the functionality of procreation and it's still here.

Code is written especially complex code. For this to happened over and over again with so much design and functionality for a single species, let alone countless others on a spec of dust in the universe. To think it happened by accident by the inanimate at such disturbing levels is laughable.

I'm just saying. There is clearly purpose, and with that there is a consciousness behind it all.

 

I am criticizing your epistemology, not.... whatever you think it is I'm criticizing. The way you go about evaluating the evidence is flawed. You can always insert a God into places where we don't understand things. You are following the same fallacious thinking that led people to hypothesize Thor and Zeus. Hence the question.... which you were unable to answer.

 That's your assumption and opinion. I don't give you any merit cause you want to liken me to ancient greeks who I know believed in false gods. I say that aspect of the conversation is backward and a waste of time. 

What has substance in this thread ?

Your liver. Has purpose. As does the heart and lungs. Your toes. The blood. There's no denying this. If it makes you feel better call me a Thor worshipper and carry on believing we've been outclassed by the inanimate, cause we've done nothing as advanced as a flea.

 

Posts: 34402
0 votes RE: What is the purpose of your life?
tpp said: 

SpatialMind... I might as well humor this, as I'm at least mildly.... curious about your answer.

You are right that Science can not explain everything. In the past, it was things like lightning and rain.. So we attributed it to Thor, the God of thunder. How else could lightning and rain be created if it was not by conscious design? Nowadays... well, we now know how thunder and rain work.

To be clear. I'm talking about how science has no idea how anything could have been alive to begin with. Once something dies we cannot bring it back, nor do we have the slightest clue how to bring things to life.

I'm not talking about what they might have believed in ancient Greece.

You see why he made the comparison though, right? 

It's apt, there's nothing to say that just as many years in the future that we couldn't come to learn and understand DNA's ins and outs the same way that we now understand Lightning. It's more likely a point on the timeline rather than proof of any sort of Creator when we use his Thor model. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 12/3/2021 4:30:23 PM
Posts: 2898
0 votes RE: What is the purpose of your life?

tpp's edge gonna make a security hole in the website

Cheery bye!
Posts: 34402
0 votes RE: What is the purpose of your life?

The 2 genders FOR EVERY ANIMAL, are not a reoccurring fluke,

10 Sex-Changing Animals That Don’t Adhere To Gender Roles

Finding Nemo's potentially a trans movie. 

 
Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
This site contains NSFW material. To view and use this site, you must be 18+ years of age.