How doesn't the choice make itself?
It's not even "black and white", as that's still a duality.
When given context, situations, and variables, the processing that happens related to it is largely automatic. The decision that is made, as such, is just as automatic. There is always something before the choice that robs you of the potential for freedom that you think you have. You will do as you will because it's who you already are, and you will change as you will because who you were is being confronted with something strong enough to influence you. You are as you are because of everything before you.
Indecision itself is not a choice either, but the natural conclusion that the person was bound to do from what they were carrying up to that point. Consciousness is merely an observer, and why we do things can be because of how said observer is affected by what's going on, but it's largely the what's going on that's triggering that set of behaviors as opposed to anything else, as even the observer is not independent of the chain reaction we're all witnessing in action.
Even why you try isn't really a choice, it's the conclusion you'll naturally stumble upon because of everything that lead up to that point. Even the tendency for people to ask the "Then why do anything?" question is an automatic response to this idea being posed, one they ask because of who they were already.
Turncoat stated: source post
Choice is an illusion, an opiate of the ego.
This will evolve into a discussion about the potential ramifications of quantum physics, which might support the existence of free will.
Often however, in our daily lives, peoples' choices are very predictable. I agree with you there.
Nothing is truly random or whimsical, simply not delved into fully. If you were to mark everything, you could form maps and measure patterns as to how yourself is an automatic thing.
Even flipping a coin, you had to flip that coin for reasons prior to that flip, accept/reject the outcome of the flip because of reasons prior, and that flip had to come out as it did because of everything that happened prior and the current conditions of your environment. Everything prior, both large and small, spelled out what has happened and what is to come, but there are too many variables for us to really do that as we are. We'd need something better than human potential to do this for us.
Maybe your current mood affected how hard you flipped that coin for instance, how much you ate, how long you slept, how a conversation prior to the flip went? You don't know the outcome of the coin flip, but that doesn't mean that the coin flip could never be predicted in the first place. Once enough variables are measured, nothing is random anymore. The perception of anything being seen as "chance" is ignorance from our own tools not being enough to see past it.
MissCommunication stated: source post
"I argue that the occurrence you mentioned was indeed fate. Everything in the lives of the persons involved...all impressions made upon them by their environments, the environments with which they became intertwined with that shaped them (and who they would become), where they would go and what they would do consequentially, the conclusions they would formulate based on all of these factors...inevitably led them to that one point which became a news story."
Your theory may be right but that means that everything is predetermined and then what's the point of anything? We're basically just pawns in some master game we can't influence. So many inconsequential decisions lead to that moment. It's not like when a person makes a lifetime of shit decisions and then faces a shit outcome, which is essentially a direct result of all the choices they made and the character they developed (who they would become). That scenario, fits my world view. But this story is the polar opposite of that....
I mean they stopped to get gas and buy cookies. This was caught on surveillance camera and was the last time they were seen alive. If they hadn't done that one thing maybe it would have put them on the road earlier and they never would have crossed paths with this guy.
Tbh, I think this bothers me because these people remind me of some of my older (and kinder) relatives and i see how vulnerable they are. I know I can't protect them from random things like this. It makes an already weak foundation seem shakier.
Once again, you are discounting that all life experiences lead up to moments which are inevitable. You even say "your theory may be right," but then you go on to say "but that means everything is predetermined and then what's the point of anything?"
It's as if at a cognitive level you realize what I am saying makes sense, but on an emotional level the concept is abhorrent to you.
The interesting aspect about Quantum physics seem to be defining what is vs what is not in the moment, as when scientists start searching, they start finding what was not previously conceived....so which comes first? The thought ? Or the existence of the discovery?
Esoteric discussions.....keep it grounded in the Flesh and Blood...lol...
Inquirer stated: source post
Often however, in our daily lives, peoples' choices are very predictable. I agree with you there.
What makes it predictable though?
If that capacity were to be expanded upon to a much more extreme point, beyond human potential to the absolute limits of both perception and processing, how couldn't everything eventually become predictable in the same way?