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Posts: 5426
Socializing boys and girls

No. When it comes to something as big as gender, I believe genes play a bigger role in the differences between people. What opportunities they are given in society also shape gender differences, but they are secondary and already have to work on a given gender makeup that is biologically very different imo.

Posts: 5426
Socializing boys and girls

Not being happy inside your own body, having a disconnect between mind gender and body gender, is an illness. People who feel that should be helped out by docs like any other suffering person, with surgery if necessary.

Posts: 1259
Socializing boys and girls

We'll have to define what kind of differences we're talking about here. The major gender differences we see are most likely due to genes. I also agree that biology might be the original, yet very much indirect, cause for a lot of our more 'minor' behaviors, but you could say the same thing about the Big Bang.

Baby boys and girls don't get blue respective pink blankets in their crib because of genes. They're not told to "be a man" or "look pretty" because of genes. That is all socialization. Created and setup by biology but nevertheless socialization.

Posts: 5426
Socializing boys and girls

Inquirer stated: source post

The major gender differences we see are most likely due to genes. but nevertheless socialization....

That's all I have been saying.

Agree with pretty much the rest of your post too.

Posts: 1259
Socializing boys and girls

Alright, I get you. I find the interesting exercise within this topic is trying to figure out where the line between genetics and socialization goes, so that's where I was.

Posts: 1892
Socializing boys and girls

Our responses have gotten crazy long... Need to shorten them... hope you are cool with this...

"Men stopped "being men" as strongly because of the expectation gradually fading. As it becomes less oppressive, we'll see even less of it overtime, especially as manly women and womanly men start breeding and presenting different values. As values become less streamlined as well, they'll be able to see a vast variety of perspectives instead of having an entire classroom of students be surprised about a kid being raised by a "Stay At Home Dad". "

Why did the expectation fade?

For many, many a year a profitable living was made off the land.  Many families never saw a city and generations lived together off the same land... this was a norm (I know you don't enjoy that word) around the world... genetically speaking, men... have stronger legs and backs (perhaps from the millennia of precondition expectation of man tilling the field?... Bible explains this some what... jus sayin')... and men were more inclined to till fields...

Other work HAD to get done... important work... cleaning... disease was rampant and to keep things clean just as important as tilling a field... cooking... someone needed to prepare meals while fields were being maintained... raising your next generation of workers... you get the picture, right?  All jobs important and equal...

Enter our modern society... Bruce Jenner is now a woman to the flesh eye.... He will never be what any woman is... a woman... he cheated PMS for Christ sakes!  Women kill HIM!

That was a bit tongue in cheek, TC...

"I'm sure part of it's also from it looking "Less PC", that being "too manly" or being "a woman" to many is seen as pushing the paradigm, but that's just as bad as telling those who aren't the mold that they're wrong. "

I would like to think the human race as a whole not SO shallow... but... you're probably correct some....

"How is a strong woman stronger than a strong man? "

Other than physical limitations... I give up... how?

"His expression of it's potentially self-destructive in his case. He carries more weight than he needs to, and from time to time it shows. "

And here is where I want to stop with you...  here is where you begin to stress what you believe as norm... but yet... you push against the norm because it's... the norm....

What I would like to do is give you an example... because I do believe you and I are very close on this subject, yet I don't think you feel that way...

I am a father of four young men... I am raising men... not boys I teach to shave... their mother has been emotionally non-existent their whole life... and now for the little guys... mostly physical as well... they live with me... I am Dad... I am Mom... it is a balancing act I am SURE I am fucking up, but it is what it is... you do what you do...

I am discipline... I am comfort... I am fun... I am authority... I am the stern lecture... I am the cry for an injury...

What I hope to teach my boys is a MAN takes care of what is his.... A MAN doesn't runaway when shit gets tuff or doesn't go your way... also... a man NEEDS  a woman... life works easier when you have a partner raising kids... but... do what you do when it HAS to be done...

A MAN needs a woman... and I hope I am showing them what kind of woman they need by BEING that woman when they need it... in this PC world I can be that woman... Fuck Bruce Jenner...

A MAN kill and die to protect his children... Ever gotten between a MOM and her young?

 

I take offense when you youngins take offense to "Norms"... it's just a norm because it works...

Posts: 1259
Socializing boys and girls

Virus stated: source post

I take offense when you youngins take offense to "Norms"... it's just a norm because it works...

Said pretty much all conservative authorities to every attempt at social reform throughout history. 

Posts: 1892
Socializing boys and girls

Primal stated: source post

But white guilt is fair game...it's just absurd and funny as fk. 

It is such an interesting time to be a white man... oh the loll's!

Posts: 1892
Socializing boys and girls

Inquirer stated: source post

 

Virus stated: source post

I take offense when you youngins take offense to "Norms"... it's just a norm because it works...

Said pretty much all conservative authorities to every attempt at social reform throughout history. 

 

Go ahead Inq... perfect the wheel... do it...

Posts: 1892
Socializing boys and girls

Turncoat stated: source post

 

Primal stated: source post

You missed the point on Responsibility for you actions..if you want to dress up in a fox costume, call yourself otherkin and expect the rest of the world to agree that you are not fking nuts, then that is Mental Illness leading the way....which is fking nuts. 

Do you see that on the same level as defying gender expectations? Would you say that female lumberjacks and male secretaries are both mentally ill? 

You really didn't just conflate this issue... no... please... you didn't...

 

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