Gender roles have changed massively, even if, like I replied to Edvard, the most obvious differences have stayed and will stay.
Less than a hundred years ago women weren't allowed to vote in a lot of countries. They were legally considered to be subordinate to the man, which was a codification of the social norm at the time. By your thinking we shouldn't have changed that.
But now you are getting into another aspect which was already covered....Eddie covered that already under Wasted potential.
Men and Women, equal but different. And thank God, G-d, Nature ( whatever) the stars.... for the difference.
Women that want to be 'men' and Men that want to 'womyn' and the clusterfk of stupid in between = Mental Illness.
As far as 'gender roles', society can stuff it. I don't ask societies' permission to be who I am, nor am I dumb enough to demand 'tolerance' and acceptance and all that other crap. But, I do have to be good enough at whatever it is I am up to if I want to make the grade/ do the job, you name it.
The line between men and women being wiped out is an artificial construct in society, moreso than gender lines being drawn. If this is bad or not is another question. I don't think it is. It's evolution that benefits us, same as with equally artificial laws and morals. Society has more to benefit from individuals of both genders having equal opportunities and expectations, so educating them to fit the purposes of this new conditions (outside of jungle law) is preferable. The bodies and behaviors we have been built for over millions of years aren't useful for the same qualities anymore.
I think it is folly to delude ourselves that the law of the jungle is at any point in the near future going to 'disappear'.....and I don't think it can be taken out of any equation where sentient beings are present.
In general I agree with what you wrote. I do however think the line between biological and cultural genders isn't always clear and distinct, and because Virus made comments indicating he considered it to be rather straightforward I challenged him on that.
When it comes to biological genders it's all quite simple: like you say, just look at the body in question.
"Why does the gender binary have to be within "general standards of accepted behavior"? Do you expect murder and theft to rise from people no longer prescribing to the genitalic fate? That's crazy."
Because without order, people will create 26+ different genders... because its too easy and they want to be something more, without putting real effort. The peer pressure needs to be a passable obstacle that doesn't influence you in a direct way. If you pass it, then it means you truly are different and you have worked for it and you feel comfortable being different, even thought others think its weird. And that last bit is most important, because you will be forced to take responsibility, either willingly or unwillingly. You should not invade other peoples sensibilities with yours, just like you do not like how they think you are weird, they don't like how weird you are... But since you can see and understand this and your character is strong enough(since you passed the peer pressure barrier), you can keep being yourself, while recognizing that you do not live alone on this world and taking responsibility for being different: if your weirdness somehow impacts another person, you should understand it was your fault, they are not obligated to take your shit.
And you might feel like you are not obligated to take the shit that the 'standard' gives you, but you are. Because the standard is what most people like and you do not live alone and you are not more important then a majority of people. And its not even a big deal(it shouldn't be)...
"How is freedom of identity "Absolute freedom"? It's just one part of it. "
Yes, it is a part of Chaos. Its a step closer and i feel its unnecessary as all it will do is bring some comfort in exchange for great risk of mass character degradation.
"Why should identity be private? Social media and the internet in general is showing a thriving from the opposite idea.
It can be nice to find others who identify similarly to yourself, and hiding that could mean potentially not finding them. "
Answered first part at the top.
You can find them in private/more secluded locations or the internet or any other private thing. Your weird shit is not the mainstream and you need to recognize it and why should it be mainstream?
"You won't know what could have been if they were given those freedoms, nor how comfortable they are or aren't with themselves from feeling like it has to be a battle.
Peer pressure is quite indoctrinating. "
Idk, i have seen the people on tumblr. I think a lack of direction is what created all these crazy movements. And i can't be sure, but i think if people could be anything, there would be more problems.
Edvard stated: source post
It's amazing how defensive Turncoat is about this gender roles issue, coming up with stuff like that. I wonder if this is so important to him because of some need to come to terms with how taking it up the ass from a female with a strapon fits within the gender role stereotyping framework. I mean, he seems personally way too bothered with it all.
Still mad?
Primal stated: source post
But now you are getting into another aspect which was already covered....Eddie covered that already under Wasted potential.
Men and Women, equal but different. And thank God, G-d, Nature ( whatever) the stars.... for the difference.
HERE, HERE... !
Women that want to be 'men' and Men that want to 'womyn' and the clusterfk of stupid in between = Mental Illness.
Well... a little brutal... but ya
As far as 'gender roles', society can stuff it. I don't ask societies' permission to be who I am, nor am I dumb enough to demand 'tolerance' and acceptance and all that other crap. But, I do have to be good enough at whatever it is I am up to if I want to make the grade/ do the job, you name it.
As if I wrote it... Hmmmm....
I think it is folly to delude ourselves that the law of the jungle is at any point in the near future going to 'disappear'.....
LOL! I didn't know how to put this into words... I was going to ask others what their idea of the future in the year 2100 looked like... a bunch of carbon copies running around?
and I don't think it can be taken out of any equation where sentient beings are present.
Polarities seem to be natural with the universe... not a must... but consistent... natural... and productive...
ThenFuckit stated: source post
Because without order, people will create 26+ different genders... because its too easy and they want to be something more, without putting real effort.
What is "real effort" when it comes to this?
The peer pressure needs to be a passable obstacle that doesn't influence you in a direct way. If you pass it, then it means you truly are different and you have worked for it and you feel comfortable being different, even thought others think its weird. And that last bit is most important, because you will be forced to take responsibility, either willingly or unwillingly.
So... you think "difference" ought to be earned?
You should not invade other peoples sensibilities with yours, just like you do not like how they think you are weird, they don't like how weird you are...
"So lets just hide who we are while those who aren't weird can express their streamline sense of self."
But since you can see and understand this and your character is strong enough(since you passed the peer pressure barrier), you can keep being yourself, while recognizing that you do not live alone on this world and taking responsibility for being different: if your weirdness somehow impacts another person, you should understand it was your fault, they are not obligated to take your shit.
That sort of thing serves to squash variety and creativity, and I likely only made it this point because of having supporting parents.
I'd rather have a bunch of bizarre differences between people than a sea of sameness. For all it'd benefit, as it's not like cliques and trends would go away for the need to band together, it also selfishly benefits me from how much I enjoy studying people. If people were told to keep themselves to themselves, I'd be for the most part only studying two people repeatedly. Freedom of expression also makes it easier for me to find people I'd like.
And you might feel like you are not obligated to take the shit that the 'standard' gives you, but you are. Because the standard is what most people like and you do not live alone and you are not more important then a majority of people. And its not even a big deal(it shouldn't be)...
This with any luck will continue to grow increasingly outdated.
"How is freedom of identity "Absolute freedom"? It's just one part of it. "
Yes, it is a part of Chaos. Its a step closer and i feel its unnecessary as all it will do is bring some comfort in exchange for great risk of mass character degradation.
A little too much law sets the stage for a pressure cook. It's good to have some actual freedoms in there.
You're using the word "Chaos" as an ambiguous threat. If you're going to sell why it's scary, we'll need to see what this "Chaos" you're so afraid of actually is. There's degrees of change, not a kill switch. It's not such black and white fatalism.
You can find them in private/more secluded locations or the internet or any other private thing. Your weird shit is not the mainstream and you need to recognize it and why should it be mainstream?
Why should it be kept to ourselves? I personally enjoy what makes people different, and I enjoy reading about it whether it's seriously or while laughing.
Of course it's annoying when someone's loudly chanting their differences, but if the sameness and differences are blanded, trivialized instead of ostracized, there will be less reason to chant in the first place.
Idk, i have seen the people on tumblr. I think a lack of direction is what created all these crazy movements. And i can't be sure, but i think if people could be anything, there would be more problems.
Tumblr is embarrassingly cringy to use as source material for any argument. It can make anyone look bad.
A lot of your arguments present that "Change leads to Chaos, and Chaos destroys Law". You then discuss how a "Natural Order" is in place by citing how things once were and how things are with a distaste for seeing that change. HOW will it ruin everything?
Turncoat stated: source post
What is "real effort" when it comes to this?
Not getting influenced by peer pressure
So... you think "difference" ought to be earned?
No earned, but proven to oneself that its real and not just a 'stage' or internal misunderstanding, or that the problem is in another source(not identity).
You should not invade other peoples sensibilities with yours, just like you do not like how they think you are weird, they don't like how weird you are...
"So lets just hide who we are while those who aren't weird can express their streamline sense of self."
Yes. Why would you think this is not how things should be?
But since you can see and understand this and your character is strong enough(since you passed the peer pressure barrier), you can keep being yourself, while recognizing that you do not live alone on this world and taking responsibility for being different: if your weirdness somehow impacts another person, you should understand it was your fault, they are not obligated to take your shit.
That sort of thing serves to squash variety and creativity, and I likely only made it this point because of having supporting parents.
I think you can be creative and varied while navigating the standard. As long as your case is intelligent and the people you talk to also are, your ideas will be heard.
If its art where you want to express your differences, then you can just do as you please.
I'd rather have a bunch of bizarre differences between people than a sea of sameness. For all it'd benefit, as it's not like cliques and trends would go away for the need to band together, it also selfishly benefits me from how much I enjoy studying people. If people were told to keep themselves to themselves, I'd be for the most part only studying two people repeatedly. Freedom of expression also makes it easier for me to find people I'd like.
I'd rather have a standard with a method to facilitate differences in an ordered way. Which i believe already exists, or used to. The problem is when your personal difference is all emotional and has no practicality, other then making you feel good, that should be private.
And you might feel like you are not obligated to take the shit that the 'standard' gives you, but you are. Because the standard is what most people like and you do not live alone and you are not more important then a majority of people. And its not even a big deal(it shouldn't be)...
This with any luck will continue to grow increasingly outdated.
The standard will just shift into chaos and disorder, then shift back, thats all.
"How is freedom of identity "Absolute freedom"? It's just one part of it. "
Yes, it is a part of Chaos. Its a step closer and i feel its unnecessary as all it will do is bring some comfort in exchange for great risk of mass character degradation.
A little too much law sets the stage for a pressure cook. It's good to have some actual freedoms in there.
The pressure hook has a hole, called privacy.
You're using the word "Chaos" as an ambiguous threat. If you're going to sell why it's scary, we'll need to see what this "Chaos" you're so afraid of actually is. There's degrees of change, not a kill switch. It's not such black and white fatalism.
No, i am just enjoying the Warhammer 40k franchise by making a reference lol.
Chaos in this discussion is just slowing progress. Its creating unnecessary clogs, only to facilitate emotions of a few, most of which wont produce anything of value. And the clog will increase and increase, till it implodes, the machine is fixed and progress continues.
Basically, i think that too much freedom will create disorder, which is unnecessary, but it will be gotten over with eventually, however why do we even have to deal with it? For a few fringe cases? I do not think the majority of people are under a great influence of peer pressure, because i think its the majority that creates peer pressure. Also, i do not think Art should have a standard, i think that should be totally chaotic.
Why should it be kept to ourselves? I personally enjoy what makes people different, and I enjoy reading about it whether it's seriously or while laughing.
It can be kept to those that are interested in private, but i find it distasteful to push your difference at other people in public. Its disrespectful and self entitled.
Of course it's annoying when someone's loudly chanting their differences, but if the sameness and differences are blanded, trivialized instead of ostracized, there will be less reason to chant in the first place.
I think the trivialization of sameness led to these annoying people. Because they do not have a real fight, they make it up. This goes back to having no peer pressure barrier to overcome and all the problems that come with that. If the barrier was still up(and as strong as i think it should be), they would fall in line, because they are not really different and they are weak. Only after they fall in line, they might find their uniqueness: then they can see the difference between the standard and themselves.
Tumblr is embarrassingly cringy to use as source material for any argument. It can make anyone look bad.
Tumblr doesn't stay in tumblr thought. They are like cockroaches, expect reverse day/night cycle. They stay in the cracks of tumblr online during the night and come out during the day to wreak havoc upon the tolerant.
A lot of your arguments present that "Change leads to Chaos, and Chaos destroys Law". You then discuss how a "Natural Order" is in place by citing how things once were and how things are with a distaste for seeing that change. HOW will it ruin everything?
It wont ruin it, because i believe in the adaptation of people. But it will cause a slowdown. I think there can be an orderly method to induce change, not in a random and chaotic way that will result to no one knows what. We can get every result, via order and we can do it well, efficiently, by exampling all paths.
Chaos is not required to create change or variety.
ThenFuckit stated: source post
It wont ruin it, because i believe in the adaptation of people. But it will cause a slowdown.
(I mean it won't blow up
'N disappear
It'll just look ugly
For a thousand years...)
^^^^^^^ Chaos is not required to create change or variety.
Be the change....doesn't matter which gender steps up to the plate to get whatever done...both are capable...for one it will be easier than the other ( barring child birth, and in nature, that requires Both )
SJWs nauseate me on a visceral level on both sides of the equation....just...WTF?
And if I want to learn/ know or understand the male side of the equation....I will ask a Man...not a tranny faggot.
Years ago...one fellow stated; Men and women want the same things, but they ask for it in different ways.
Can any of the gentlemen corroborate?