this is a great concept that intrigues me. i dont thimk a computer can see, hear, or feel stuff. they dont have minds. they're like mechanical machines: a jack in the box doesnt feel touch when you press the button. its a mechanical predetermined response.
WW3 stated: source post
theres been debate on this but vsauce agrees wih me :D
computers sont have qualia and cant see red.
Computers can be made to see. They just need a device to capture the light waves. And 'seeing', as vsauce explained, is just a process.
hdiver stated: source post
computers do exactly what you tell them to do.
humans may or may not.
No computers do not. They can be made to think on their own and made to overwrite your decisions, based on data they have accumulated and based on patterns/programming/protocols they have to analyze the data.
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@OP
Quantum physics show something only humans can do.
When an experiment is done, using machines, and no human observes it, it shows one thing, but if exactly the same experiment and a human observes it, a different thing happens. This means that a human has some sort of special effect, while the machine doesn't.
However, one day, maybe we can build machines that can have this effect as well. We need to first understand how this works.
hdiver stated: source post
computers are programmed by humans and do exactly what they are told.
any decisions are based on an algorithm programmed by a human
computers do not think
Yes they do think. What you described is thinking.
An algorithm can be made to rewrite itself. This is exactly the same as thinking in humans.
The latest Microsoft AI didn't do what the programmers wanted it to do. Because it was made to learn and think on its own. This was not bad programming, it was bad planning of how to make the AI think.
An AI beat the best player of Go. And the way it did it, was via algorithms that made it learn and think. Because its impossible to calculate the solution in a game of Go, as it has such a large amount of possibilities. It won in a best of 5 and lost only once.
These algorithms are the same as thinking.
Edvard stated: source post
Sure our minds can use logic and think rationally like computers. But aside from that they have so much more: emotions, imagination and creativity, love of beauty/art, hopes, dreams, conscience/sense of right and wrong, aspirations/thirst for higher values, ego and vanity, selfishness, bravery, love of adventure/danger/defying the odds, addictions, obsessions, enjoyment or hurting through the senses, etc etc etc. Computers have none of this stuff, they are empty tools.
But all those things can be made into patterns and are physically explainable. And everything that can be made into a pattern can be made into math. And everything that can be made into math can be programmed. And everything that can be explained physically can be replicated with a machine.
However it would be extremely hard and is impossible at the current moment, there needs to be more research done into it and etc.
Its also possible emotions are not just chemicals and can't be 100% explained physically, we do not know the brain enough just yet.
This is a very interesting topic but as usual a lot of people seem to be confused. Using only one assumption: Humans exist and only exist in the physical realm one can prove that not only can a (extended/normal) Turing machine simulate and model a human but that it can do more.
The primary confusion and misunderstanding people seem to have is that emotions or feelings are some sort of supra-physical phenomenon, they're not. An emotion or feeling can be reduced to a set of inputs and outputs in the brain and elsewhere, say for example you're under brain surgery and using an electrode the surgeon induces a feeling of you being tickled. This example illustrates how feelings or other seeming abstract experiences are in affect just physical input-output signals (in reality all physical things are governed this way).
Now why is this relevant and important to the question? Well using physical models of reality we can easily simulate the brain's input-output procedures inside of a computer and experience and have the exact same outcomes. So using the first assumption, that humans only exist in the physical world, if we are able to create something which is identical in it's input-output performance to a human it is in fact simulating/emulating a human. This is not to be confused with the idea that "computers are cold and can never really experience things" because that's not a real argument, experiencing things is in reality also a physical phenomenon which can be modeled the same way as concepts such as 1+1 are.
In affect we are already using neural nets and other algorithms on Turing machines which mimic how the brain processes information in order to take decisions.
Cadaver stated: source post
This is a very interesting topic but as usual a lot of people seem to be confused. Using only one assumption: Humans exist and only exist in the physical realm one can prove that not only can a (extended/normal) Turing machine simulate and model a human but that it can do more.
The primary confusion and misunderstanding people seem to have is that emotions or feelings are some sort of supra-physical phenomenon, they're not. An emotion or feeling can be reduced to a set of inputs and outputs in the brain and elsewhere, say for example you're under brain surgery and using an electrode the surgeon induces a feeling of you being tickled. This example illustrates how feelings or other seeming abstract experiences are in affect just physical input-output signals (in reality all physical things are governed this way).
Now why is this relevant and important to the question? Well using physical models of reality we can easily simulate the brain's input-output procedures inside of a computer and experience and have the exact same outcomes. So using the first assumption, that humans only exist in the physical world, if we are able to create something which is identical in it's input-output performance to a human it is in fact simulating/emulating a human. This is not to be confused with the idea that "computers are cold and can never really experience things" because that's not a real argument, experiencing things is in reality also a physical phenomenon which can be modeled the same way as concepts such as 1+1 are.
In affect we are already using neural nets and other algorithms on Turing machines which mimic how the brain processes information in order to take decisions.
exactly
You are all neglecting the energy component, the "soul", which is the most important thing. There's not just chemicals and matter in us, a dead body is chemicals and matter. What makes someone alive is more than that, otherwise fuck building machines. Bringing people back from death would be a much more attractive thought.
Edvard stated: source post
Why, because I used the word soul? Call it what you like. There is an energetic component to us, brain circuits, brain waves, etc. Science didn't figure out all that shit, and I am not saying I have, just calling you out when you say you have. You say everything can be programmed and predicted, but I think it's dumb. There is the uncertainty principle. There is chaos in the universe. If gas particle movement can't be predicted because it's chaotic, what makes you think behavior of particles in out brain can be influenced to perfection?.
Waves are physical things that can be replicated.
Energy is a physical component that can be replicated.
A gas particle can be predicted if you know all the variables and it can be predicted exactly. Its just really hard to obtain this information using the current technology we have. However we can make an approximation of a group of particles and create simulations of that.
The only thing that has been observed and documented and researched by real science that shows something that can't be replicated by a machine right now, is quantum physics. But its totally possible that once we know enough, it could be replicated too.
There is a computer game which plays with the concepts of brain patterns. The game is in the future and science has managed to copy a brain pattern on a computer and upload it into machines. These machines think they are real people. Later in the game, you clone your own mind into another body and then there are 2 of you, exactly the same minds, but in different computers. This is because in this game science has manged to copy/paste the pure information, that a brain pattern is, into bits. Ofc its sci-fi, but its not pure fantasy, its sci-fi.
Brain waves, radio waves, light waves, micro waves, sound waves, all can be stored as bits. This is how sound works in computers.
A brain pattern would be much harder however, as its still too complex to identify.
Also the word Soul has no real meaning, its abstract, so yes it is stupid to use it at the current context.
Sure our minds can use logic and think rationally like computers. But aside from that they have so much more: emotions, imagination and creativity, love of beauty/art, hopes, dreams, conscience/sense of right and wrong, aspirations/thirst for higher values, ego and vanity, selfishness, bravery, love of adventure/danger/defying the odds, addictions, obsessions, enjoyment or hurting through the senses, etc etc etc. Computers have none of this stuff, they are empty tools.