Sociopath Community

Idiot said:

is sadism being mistaken for the cruelty resulting from practices needed for survival?

 No, that would be much different. If we're talking about the true definition of sadism—deriving pleasure from pain—that is rather rare in nature. Examples would be: tyranous monkies, big cats playing with their food while its alive, crows toying with people they dont like. Im sure theres more. I struggle to think of examples, while there are countless examples of mutualism. 

They all have varrying outcomes. Tyranous monkies are ganged up on and murdered by their peers. Big cats playing with food is inconsequential. Crows toying with people that pose threats to them serves as a bahavioral deterent for us. (All these animals are considered quite intelligent btw TC)

Sadism implies morality though and animals have no capacity for considering morality.

FOTS said: 

Idiot said:

is sadism being mistaken for the cruelty resulting from practices needed for survival?

 No, that would be much different. If we're talking about the true definition of sadism—deriving pleasure from pain—that is rather rare in nature. Examples would be: tyranous monkies, big cats playing with their food while its alive, crows toying with people they dont like. Im sure theres more. I struggle to think of examples, while there are countless examples of mutualism. 

They all have varrying outcomes. Tyranous monkies are ganged up on and murdered by their peers. Big cats playing with food is inconsequential. Crows toying with people that pose threats to them serves as a bahavioral deterent for us. (All these animals are considered quite intelligent btw TC)

Sadism implies morality though and animals have no capacity for considering morality.

 To be frank, TC would bring up sadism which is the complete opposite of what I wrote. It's why I'm quick to dismiss him.

Sadism by far isn't an indicator of higher intelligence. Derriving pleasure from the suffering of others is low awareness. A higher awareness cannot derrive pleasure from inflicting pain and suffering on others, because the subject will experience the pain and suffering themselves.

A higher intelligence is synonymous with benevolence.

Say for example you have a society where everyone has the ultimate consciousness. Do you think a liar or a sadist can even begin to function in that society ? No they'll be shut down immediately. In a society of lower intelligence, lies can roam. 

As for animals and morality. Yes many of them know morality and right from wrong. There are countless video captures of animal interventions when duty calls. From house cats to some wild animal. 

On topic though. The highest forum of intelligence isn't going to get their kicks from nailing living creatures to a tree. That's very close minded and dysfunctional behavior. 

You don't have to be a genius to know what eventually happens when there local sadist becomes a problem, in any society or any animal kingdom.

Delora said: 

FOTS said: 

Why would anyone with any actual intelligence or expertise waste time communicating it here? It would be like talking to a wall.  Y'all remember when Alice would post about mathematics? probably not bc almost none of you would read it and try to understand wtf she was talking about.

Actually I would read it it's part of how I became friends with Alice. We bounce ideas off eachother every now and then in discord. Alice was the only person who read my papers I would post to SC on rodentology, Greek mythology, plants ect, or any of my poems that I wrote or give a shit, and one of the few people to even care about my art and singing. It can be pretty boring here sometimes, I gave up sharing parts of myself here a long long time ago. 

Alice actually posts amazing things in math and their theoretical physics I find to be especially interesting. Although my forte is more so biology, but theoretical physics is so fucking fun them and I have went on for HOURS. That person is FUCKING BRILLIANT and extremely open minded. Although a lot of people don't know there is more to Alice than just "smart" and Alice is a very cool fucking person in general and very fun to talk to when they are up to it.

Which of you would you say is smarter though? 

FOTS said: 

Idiot said: 

Turncoat said: 

Pretty sure Nature proves otherwise there, it's the ones with higher functioning and some degree of cunning that tend to show a higher capacity for Sadism.

this seems like a gross oversimplification, researchers are surprised at the level of (what appears to be) empathy among and between other species

 All of these are true to varying degrees. Nature is full of complex ecological relationships that have a diverse array of purposes and benefits. There is no one true model for when sadism, mutualism parasitism, commensalism etc is more beneficial than the alternative.

Yes, higher functioning individuals are more crafty and cruel when they decide to be sadistic. Yes, interspecial and intraspecial mutualism ("empathy" between and among species) is extremely common. Yes, intelligence is linked with self-awareness and introspection; so intelligent people can tend to be more moral. But also, the opposite is equally true for all of these statements.

Too many species of bird (like Pigeons and DUCKS) are dicks that seem to enjoy sadism with many finding pleasure from rape, dolphins are sadistic rapists as well. Then there's Orcas, many species of Ape, even Elephants rape and kill their own kind and seem to get something out of it. Otters even rape Baby Seals, and Seals in turn sexually assault baby Penguins for fun, Wolves and some dogs will kill Sheep for fun rather than food, etc. 

When they show, not environmental synergy, but needs that require them to study their environment while working within interpersonal politics rather than lone ones? Ruthlessness and Sadism tend to crop up more often. 

Turncoat said: 

FOTS said: 

Idiot said: 

this seems like a gross oversimplification, researchers are surprised at the level of (what appears to be) empathy among and between other species

 All of these are true to varying degrees. Nature is full of complex ecological relationships that have a diverse array of purposes and benefits. There is no one true model for when sadism, mutualism parasitism, commensalism etc is more beneficial than the alternative.

Yes, higher functioning individuals are more crafty and cruel when they decide to be sadistic. Yes, interspecial and intraspecial mutualism ("empathy" between and among species) is extremely common. Yes, intelligence is linked with self-awareness and introspection; so intelligent people can tend to be more moral. But also, the opposite is equally true for all of these statements.

Too many species of bird (like Pigeons and DUCKS) are dicks that seem to enjoy sadism with many finding pleasure from rape, dolphins are sadistic rapists as well. Then there's Orcas, many species of Ape, even Elephants rape and kill their own kind and seem to get something out of it. Otters even rape Baby Seals, and Seals in turn sexually assault baby Penguins for fun, Wolves and some dogs will kill Sheep for fun rather than food, 

When they show, not environmental synergy, but needs that require them to study their environment while working within interpersonal politics rather than lone ones? Ruthlessness and Sadism tend to crop up more often. 

 you seem to miss the point, is the pleasure from fulfilling nature's drive to procreate or from sadism. Even "killing sheep for fun" overlooks how it's often a survival strategy/instinct teaching/practising hunting

janitor said: 

Turncoat said: 

FOTS said: 

 All of these are true to varying degrees. Nature is full of complex ecological relationships that have a diverse array of purposes and benefits. There is no one true model for when sadism, mutualism parasitism, commensalism etc is more beneficial than the alternative.

Yes, higher functioning individuals are more crafty and cruel when they decide to be sadistic. Yes, interspecial and intraspecial mutualism ("empathy" between and among species) is extremely common. Yes, intelligence is linked with self-awareness and introspection; so intelligent people can tend to be more moral. But also, the opposite is equally true for all of these statements.

Too many species of bird (like Pigeons and DUCKS) are dicks that seem to enjoy sadism with many finding pleasure from rape, dolphins are sadistic rapists as well. Then there's Orcas, many species of Ape, even Elephants rape and kill their own kind and seem to get something out of it. Otters even rape Baby Seals, and Seals in turn sexually assault baby Penguins for fun, Wolves and some dogs will kill Sheep for fun rather than food, etc. 

When they show, not environmental synergy, but needs that require them to study their environment while working within interpersonal politics rather than lone ones? Ruthlessness and Sadism tend to crop up more often. 

 you seem to miss the point, is the pleasure from fulfilling nature's drive to procreate or from sadism. 

A lot of it isn't procreative, and they will interrupt the sex for further forms of sadistic glee, especially against other kinds of animals. 

Lets take cats for example. 

Anthropomorphism. Cats' predator instinct has been cultivated in their DNA for thousands of years, doesn't mean they're sadistic. They can't resist their prey drive. 

janitor said: 

Anthropomorphism. Cats' predator instinct has been cultivated in their DNA for thousands of years, doesn't mean they're sadistic. They can't resist their prey drive. 

They don't even know the things they're hunting are even food, they learn from tasting it, and they particularly enjoy playing with the suffering critter as a form of pleasure. I have watched cats prolongue the prey's suffering and refuse to let them die for "more fun", drinking in their feelings and junk by staring at their last moments in the eye, then following that they don't even eat it. 

Sadism and Ruthlessness may be more pathological, but when you compare the critters in questions' sadistic drives to humanities it shows similarities.

At the very least for Spatial's point of Intelligence = Goodness, I really don't see it. There are values to selfishness and altruism depending on the environment, and many things on the higher IQ spectrum in nature partake in it. Even his own idols tend to err towards selfishness and ruthlessness, and even Sadism in Andrew Tate's case, so his point seems odd to me from him in particular. 

Turncoat said: 

Delora said: 

FOTS said: 

Why would anyone with any actual intelligence or expertise waste time communicating it here? It would be like talking to a wall.  Y'all remember when Alice would post about mathematics? probably not bc almost none of you would read it and try to understand wtf she was talking about.

Actually I would read it it's part of how I became friends with Alice. We bounce ideas off eachother every now and then in discord. Alice was the only person who read my papers I would post to SC on rodentology, Greek mythology, plants ect, or any of my poems that I wrote or give a shit, and one of the few people to even care about my art and singing. It can be pretty boring here sometimes, I gave up sharing parts of myself here a long long time ago. 

Alice actually posts amazing things in math and their theoretical physics I find to be especially interesting. Although my forte is more so biology, but theoretical physics is so fucking fun them and I have went on for HOURS. That person is FUCKING BRILLIANT and extremely open minded. Although a lot of people don't know there is more to Alice than just "smart" and Alice is a very cool fucking person in general and very fun to talk to when they are up to it.

Which of you would you say is smarter though? 

 Neither. That's not how humans actually work. Alice has expressed the same sentiment and would agree.

Delora said: 

Turncoat said: 

Delora said: 

Actually I would read it it's part of how I became friends with Alice. We bounce ideas off eachother every now and then in discord. Alice was the only person who read my papers I would post to SC on rodentology, Greek mythology, plants ect, or any of my poems that I wrote or give a shit, and one of the few people to even care about my art and singing. It can be pretty boring here sometimes, I gave up sharing parts of myself here a long long time ago. 

Alice actually posts amazing things in math and their theoretical physics I find to be especially interesting. Although my forte is more so biology, but theoretical physics is so fucking fun them and I have went on for HOURS. That person is FUCKING BRILLIANT and extremely open minded. Although a lot of people don't know there is more to Alice than just "smart" and Alice is a very cool fucking person in general and very fun to talk to when they are up to it.

Which of you would you say is smarter though? 

 Neither. That's not how humans actually work. Alice has expressed the same sentiment and would agree.

One human cannot be smarter than another human? 

Strongly. Disagree.