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Kestrel said: 
 I support nationalism of every race and I am a nationalist for both races I happen to be. I also support new age facism ideals. The way forward for both of my peoples are a return to family values, integrity, accountability and pride in themselves.
 

I'll ask again since you ignored it the first time. Could you please elaborate on your "black nationalism"? What is it that makes you proud to be black? Because from here, what I see looks an awful lot like a sad display of a little boy who found himself unable to socially connect with the black people in his life and rather than examining why this is, makes himself feel better in his alienation by posting selfies in chat of himself looking as white as he can muster with lighting and angles and awkwardly bragging about the smattering of blond hairs in his beard.

last edit on 7/10/2020 8:06:21 PM
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0 votes RE: 【SIEGE】
Kestrel said: 

"So let's pretend for a moment that the Chinese people didn't invent... oh about half of everything for the bulk of human history."

I believe you. I'll take your chinaboo rant as reality that they are the founders of half of all meaningful innovations. It definitely isn't a cope for a harsh right wing opinion you dont like. There definitely hasn't been a certain race that's had a monopoly on the most innovative and successful countries for the last 800 years.

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Seethe.

 In retrospect, I don't know why I thought you'd have an argument.

Posts: 1131
1 votes RE: 【SIEGE】
Kestrel said: 
Kestrel said: 
Kestrel said: 
Kestrel said: 

 What do you consider "family values"?

 I have to elaborate more to paint the full picture. I believe our government and society is mainly dictated by the flow of corporate wealth and lobbying. The country is not for the people, the country is not for national values, it is for profit and has been so for a long time. The corporate shadow aristocracy we have today is the inevitable fate of every democracy. We need to break from this system that exploits us and only keeps a facade of these rights to keep us placated.

 So family values is your term for a society less influenced by corporate interests? I don't quite understand.

 I was implying we need a system that adheres more by traditional family values and national. Which include integrity and a higher value on the traditional family structure instead of monetary values.

 But what is "traditional family structure" to you?

 Nuclear family. What else?

 As opposed to what? I don't get your objection. Do you think there's a shortage of nuclear families all of a sudden? lol

 Obviously if I'm making a call for it

 You think..... there is a shortage of humans making humans???

last edit on 7/10/2020 8:07:55 PM
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0 votes RE: 【SIEGE】
Inquirer said:
We could go into the Renaissance and compare it to the golden eras of other civilizations but this skips one of the main points I made in my post 
Kestrel said:
You'd find a hard time naming another period of advancement like this asides maybe the Enlightement(also predominantly white).
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last edit on 7/10/2020 6:20:20 PM
Posts: 1131
1 votes RE: 【SIEGE】

The Song Dynasty is easily on par with the Renaissance. The real question here should be, is the Renaissance on par with The Song Dynasty?


Kaifeng was the capital, an efficiently run city of two million people, and a hub for art, academia, and culture. This was the place to be in the world at this point in history, a diverse city with large minority populations including Arabs, Koreans, Persians, Jews, Indians, and other west Asian groups, who are recorded as having held offices of power, the city even had foreign embassies for countries as far as Egypt and Yemen. The numerous religions practiced, including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism, Zoroastrianism, and more, further showcase the freedom of thought and individuality enjoyed by people under the Song. Now I know diversity makes you quake in your boots Kestrel, but it seems to work out fine for the Song. In fact, the absurdity of you touting the Renaissance as an unmatched period of human history while saying immigration doesn't work does beg the question of exactly how you think the Renaissance happened. (pssst It was immigration. Thank you Islamic Golden Age, for keepin it real during Europe's thousand years of living like pigs in a sty.)


And it was no different in the Song Dynasty. Cross-cultural exchange made them rich, in money, in art, and in ideas. It was a time of huge strides in innovation and social progress. They invented printing, one of the biggest advancements in human history. They invented guns, cannons, flamethrowers, and landmines. They invented rockets, which would lay the essential groundwork for the invention of the internal combustion engine and the steam engine. They also improved upon the Han Dynasty invention of the mechanical belt drive, another significant building block towards the Industrial Revolution, which could never have happened without Chinese technology. They invented the astronomic clock. They made notable improvements on agricultural technology, vehicular technology, and maritime technology, including a more effective rudder (another original invention of the Han Dynasty), a style of hull-building that if implemented in more ships today could have prevented numerous oil spills, and the invention of the mobile sail, allowing sailors worldwide to no longer be purely at the mercy of the wind, gee I'm sure that wasn't important. They made major advances in architecture, particularly in bridge-building, in water system management, in textile production, ceramics, and, as you seem to think no Chinese ever did, the compass (thank you again for that Han Dynasty, Hans were the OGs). They massively expanded the roadway system, bringing further trade, prosperity, and infrastructure to the country. They were so successful that they created one of China's most widely famous inventions, paper money, out of necessity, because they were literally so rich they were running out of metal for coins. lol And even that when the Song had produced as much iron by the 11th century as all of Europe had produced by the 18th century. Marco Polo described Chinese port cities of the Song Dynasty as being metropolises beyond what he had seen in his home country of Italy.


Social and political innovation followed closely behind, with things like the Xīnfǎ Reforms. They expanded welfare for the poor, made stronger programs of post-crisis aid, built a large and effective fire brigade, built hospitals and hospices, institutions for free medical care, retirement homes, orphanages, public granary reserves, and no-cost cemeteries. They instituted reforms of the justice system and laid the foundations of early forensic science. They opened property rights to women, giving them financial independence, and by extension far more social freedoms, more familial and communal clout in decision making, and more equal protections than they'd had until then, and in much of the world at the time. They founded government loan programs for farmers, unemployment assistance, pensions for the elderly. Under the great reformer Wang Anshi's baojia system they reformed and localized law enforcement, and put accountability measures in place. They created policies to stem government corruption. They laid down trade regulations to prevent market monopolies and other exploitations. And perhaps above all, they disintegrated much of the aristocracy-based governmental system of previous dynasties in favor of a stronger meritocracy, taking the... can you guess it?... Han Dynasty invention (ding ding ding) of standardized exams and making it the primary means of assigning power, giving the lower classes upward mobility and removing inept officials given their power hereditarily.


My personal favorite part of the Song Dynasty was the long transition between Northern Song Daoist thought and Southern Song neo-Confucian thought that gave rise to a philosophical civil war, fought with art and poetry, resulting in an explosion of culture that reached from legendary names in cultural and political history like Su Shi, Mi Fu, Zhang Zeduang, and many others, to the now rapidly progressing commoner expressing through art and writing in the free time granted them by technological advancements and widespread economic success. Spurred further at the layman's level, by a raging debate about the true nature of art, vis-à-vis art for money vs art for pleasure or meaning, classical training vs the honesty of "bad" art. Both sides of the massive Daoist/Confucian philosophical contention finding creative ways to represent their beliefs, such as the Daoist painters developing the famous Shan Shui style of painting, a type of landscape art using certain elements to convey the insignificant nature of the self and it's ideas and troubles, while neo-Confucian painters developed a hyper-focused style of painting portraying the importance of the tangible, the functional absence of greater meaning, glorifying the common man or woman and their struggles, (the latter a movement that would lead to the rise of communism many centuries later, showing just how crucial it was). Three hundred awe inspiring years of an entire nation sticking their tongues out at eachother from region to region, from town to town, from person to person, one side hollering over the border "YOU ARE BUT A SPEC IN THE GRAND FLOW OF THE UNIVERSE, HAKUNA MATATA BITCH", while the other hollered back "THE GRAND FLOW OF THE UNIVERSE IS BUT A SPEC ON THE REALITY OF OUR EXISTENCE, IF THE TANGIBLE DOESN'T MATTER THEN GET OVER HERE AND KISS MY TANGIBLE ASS". It. Was. Glorious.


And almost half a millennium later, Europe goes ego-apeshit over some overpaid virgin painting the worlds first fashion catalogue for butch transsexuals.

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But... you know... everyone has their preferences. No judgement bro.

 

...

last edit on 7/10/2020 7:15:00 PM
Posts: 1131
1 votes RE: 【SIEGE】

cont. 

As mentioned, poetry was thriving during this era, too. There was Mei Yaochen, the social critic and literary pioneer who invented the artistically controversial New Subjective Style that made waves in Chinese literary culture of the time, and Ci Style was experiencing a major resurgence, underscored by the famous works of poets like Li Qingzhao, Fan Zhongyan, Huang Tingjian, Li Yu, General Xin Qiji, and the massively politically, philosophically, and academically influential Ouyang Xiu, who was one of the voices most responsible for the assimilation of Buddhism into neo-Confucian principles, and the powerful rise of neo-Confucianism that's shaped the country, and by extension the world, ever since.


Alongside the boom in poetry, as well as philosophical and political essays such as Zhu Xi's Synthesis on Confucianism, a collection of writings kept as the official imperial ideology of China all the way to the late 19th century, technical writings were of major significance in the Song era, ushering in a new age of education and thereby equality for the masses. Literacy rates shot up during this period, well beyond Europe's even in later centuries. Numerous extensive, thorough, and nuanced historical works were written, such as Zizhi Tongjian, a 294 volume documentation and assessment of Chinese history from the Warring States period all the way to the Fall of the Tang Dynasty. (Gone With the Wind, eat your heart out.) Song Ci, a physician and judge, published his Collected Cases of Injustice Rectified, a work laying the foundations of forensic science, outlining the advancements and observations of the time, a compendium that's largely considered unmatched in the Western world until the works of Roderic de Castro in the 17th century. Encyclopedias were also published, including The Prime Tortoise of the Record Bureau, published in 1013, a million words bound in a thousand volumes of information. Also brilliant polymathic scientist Shen Kuo's Dream Pool Essays of 1088, covering a huge array of subjects from literature, to art, to math, military strategy, astronomy, meteorology, geology, geography, metallurgy, engineering, hydraulics, zoology, botany, architecture, agronomy, anatomy, medicine, anthropology, archaeology, to yo fucking mama. All available to the people. All this while Europe was still scrambling through their own shit rivers (you'd think plumbing would be one of the few things white people wouldn't forget how to do kek) to organize themselves into a coherent, functioning society, 600 years after the death of Daddy Rome.


And all over China the performing arts were booming, seeping into every facet of life in Kaifeng. The city had over fifty theaters, four of them large enough to seat thousands of people at a time. It was during the Song Dynasty that they invented the Xiwan style of theater, and revived the dwindling Zaju style. The people's freedom of speech can be clearly seen in the remaining scripts and reviews of the time indicating that much of their theater was political satire, parodies of concurrent figures of power. (Too bad Galileo couldn't have been born 600 years earlier and in China, where he wouldn't have been arrested. Especially since China was already on his page about some things, having been accurately predicting eclipses over three thousand years before Galileo was born.) Also plays that posed interesting philosophical and moral questions to the common audience, lacking the "good is good, bad is bad, here's the answer" style of western moral art, with hilarious fucking titles such as "The Peony Smells Best With Wine, The Wine Tastes Best When It's Stolen". With the explosion of trade and widespread economic success, open air markets, community activities, and the Song Dynasty invention of restaurants, brought the citizens flooding into the streets more than ever, and through this bustle of culture, the performing arts became widespread beyond precedence, with impromptu jam sessions and acrobatic performances going on on every street corner, and common vendors and merchants developing a tradition of vying for customers with song, dance, fire tricks, and juggling their own wares. It was said that "the city itself was turned into a stage, and the citizens the audience". Possibly above all, was recitation of poetry that developed a new rhythm through the accompaniment of drumming on whatever objects could be found nearby in the markets. Yeah. Ancient Chinese rap battles. These were so popular in Kaifeng that the royal concubines and consorts began a tradition at the New Years Festival (this era was also a great revival of festivals) of holding a poll among the people of which vendors could spit fire, the winners of which would be invited to the palace to throw down, where the ladies of the court would pick their favorites and be like "damn hotbuns, lemme give you some gold for dem dumplings". It was said that at these parties, a simple cook could be paid so handsomely for his rice cakes that he'd become rich overnight. Kaifeng was a bangin' 24/7 party that puts Ibiza to shame.

 

This is one place. At one time. Don't even get me started on the Tang Dynasty, The Han Dynasty, The Yuan Dynasty, Morenjo Daro, Timbuktu, the Maya Empire, the Inca Empire, the Timurid Renaissance, the Egyptian early Dynastic Period, or god help you, The Islamic Golden Age. Much less the innumerable ways in which periods of European achievement would not have been possible without the advancements of other cultures before them. Or the individuals that leaped ahead of their time, in many cases the credit often given to later Europeans in the history taught in the west, like Zera Yacob, the Ethiopian thinker who's writings on theology and philosophy covered many of the revelations of the Enlightenment era philosophers years before they were born. Or the lasting, worldwide significance of events you've never heard of, like The Battle of Tulis River. Or perhaps I need to detail for you what much of European history looks like when you're not just googling "y white ppl r da best". There's a reason Europeans ubiquitously dubbed one of the greatest thousand-year periods in culture and innovation in the world "The Dark Ages". And as Inq pointed out, you keep narrowing the goal posts on this golden triumph of Eurocentrism, while simultaneously claiming that white people lead all of history. If Europe had truly been at the forefront of culture and innovation for all of recorded human history as you claim, the rest of the world would have had to be grunting in caves for most of it.

You know nothing about history.

 

"To realize that our knowledge is ignorance,

This is a noble insight

To regard our ignorance as knowledge,

This is mental sickness"

-Lao Tzu

last edit on 7/10/2020 8:39:02 PM
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0 votes RE: 【SIEGE】

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Posts: 33590
0 votes RE: 【SIEGE】

And almost half a millennium later, Europe goes ego-apeshit over some overpaid virgin painting the worlds first fashion catalogue for butch transsexuals.

 



I really hope he comes back instead of hiding in a safe space. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 33590
0 votes RE: 【SIEGE】

Cliff Notes Version (for the layman): 

Cross-cultural exchange made them rich, in money, in art, and in ideas. It was a time of huge strides in innovation and social progress.


They invented: 

Printing, one of the biggest advancements in human history.

Guns

Cannons

Flamethrowers

Landmines

Rockets, which would lay the essential groundwork for the invention of the internal combustion engine and the steam engine.

The Mechanical Belt Drive, another significant building block towards the Industrial Revolution, which could never have happened without Chinese technology.

The Astronomic Clock


They made notable improvements on agricultural technology, vehicular technology, and maritime technology, including:

A more effective Rudder (another original invention of the Han Dynasty),

A style of Hull-Building that if implemented in more ships today could have prevented numerous oil spills,

The Mobile Sail, allowing sailors worldwide to no longer be purely at the mercy of the wind, gee I'm sure that wasn't important.


They made major advances in architecture, particularly in:

Bridge-Building

Water System Management 

Textile Production

Ceramics

The Compass (thank you again for that Han Dynasty, Hans were the OGs).

Massively expanded the Roadway System, bringing further trade, prosperity, and infrastructure to the country.

Paper Money, because they were literally so rich they were running out of metal for coins.

Song had produced as much Iron by the 11th century as all of Europe had produced by the 18th century. 

Instituted reforms of the Justice System

Laid the foundations of early Forensic Science.

Property Rights to Women, giving them
  > Financial Independence,
  > and by extension far more Social Freedoms,
  > more Familial and Communal Clout in Decision Making,
  > more Equal Protections than they'd had until then, and in much of the world at the time

Government Loan Programs for Farmers

Unemployment Assistance,

Pensions for the Elderly

Standardized Exams,
and making it the primary means of assigning power, giving the lower classes upward mobility and removing inept officials given their power hereditarily.

Restaurants


Marco Polo described Chinese port cities of the Song Dynasty as being metropolises beyond what he had seen in his home country of Italy.

And this is just the inventions. Posted Image

Kestrel really ought to come back, this is good stuff. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 7/11/2020 7:57:33 AM
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0 votes RE: 【SIEGE】

god i love racism tbh 

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