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Edvard stated: source post

Turncoat stated: source post

Where do you think that energy and drive come from? 

What do you mean? From within you. The mind and the body. 

If it were that easy, why wouldn't everyone be on the same path? 

I'd argue instead that people have predispositions towards drive of varying degrees. It's a capability that comes as easily or difficultly as building a muscle, wherein that some will find it more challenging than others. How much energy a person possesses isn't really a choice beyond trying to improve upon it somewhat with exercise and diet (and meds?), and how jaded someone is or isn't isn't fully a choice either, is it? It's different for each person from each coming from different schematics, and things like depression aren't a choice depending on it's source and weigh against their motivations all the same. 

It's not really a one size fits all kind of thing. You discuss an ideal, but the reality is a harder puzzle to solve from there being a variety of answers for a variety of people. It may not be that they aren't looking so much as they don't know what to look for, why to look, or even how to look for the deeper cases. Anyone can say "You need to step up, try harder, and make something out of your life", but without the "how" it's not usually too helpful. 
 

If your dom ordered you to do something, gave you chores, etc, you'd comply, or at least you'd want to be MADE to comply. Why? I am trying to speak your language here. Maybe part of your fascination with power and domination over you has something to do with your craving for motivation. Being forced to do what you otherwise wouldn't on your own. Being ordered around and told what to do or else is what some people need, and so much simpler than taking the steering wheel themselves. It is sad though when the ship is their own life.

Wow. 

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Turncoat stated: source post

 

Edvard stated: source post

Turncoat stated: source post

Where do you think that energy and drive come from? 

What do you mean? From within you. The mind and the body. 

If it were that easy, why wouldn't everyone be on the same path? 

Where did I say it was easy?

 

I'd argue instead that people have predispositions towards drive of varying degrees. It's a capability that comes as easily or difficultly as building a muscle, wherein that some will find it more challenging than others. How much energy a person possesses isn't really a choice beyond trying to improve upon it somewhat with exercise and diet (and meds?), and how jaded someone is or isn't isn't fully a choice either, is it? It's different for each person from each coming from different schematics, and things like depression aren't a choice depending on it's source and weigh against their motivations all the same. 

It's not really a one size fits all kind of thing. You discuss an ideal, but the reality is a harder puzzle to solve.

I agree ofc. Those who are naturally energetic and motivated have it easier, ofc. Maybe it is brain chemistry, hormones, education, who knows. In either case, both extremes are unhealthy. I was mostly addressing the unhealthy "apathetic" extreme that results pretty much in wasted lives and people not living up to a small fraction of their potential. Often those people are often depressed, because they sense something is just not right. They want to be more and do more, but they feel helpless and caged by their inability to do so. This is a form of illness, and it can be overcome in the right conditions in the huge majority of people.

 

Wow. 

Would you say you don't heavily rely on your relationships to be motivated to do stuff (go on a trip in Asia), included maybe even living?

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If it were that easy, why wouldn't everyone be on the same path? 

Who said it was easy? If you don't kick your own ass....who do you think is responsible for doing so?

All I read in the rest is excuses why you think you can not....but not a thing about what you CAN..so..what the hell do you expect?

the "how"

...lol....MOVE YOUR FUCKING ASS....that's the magik of "how"...no excuses...

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Edvard stated: source post

Turncoat stated: source post

Edvard stated: source post

Turncoat stated: source post

Where do you think that energy and drive come from? 

What do you mean? From within you. The mind and the body. 

If it were that easy, why wouldn't everyone be on the same path? 

Where did I say it was easy?

The tone sort of implies it, especially where you said they weren't really looking for it after your mentioning of being unable to relate to their misfortune. 

How hard do you figure that it is then? Your use of "from within you" makes it sound like it's already there, pre-existing, as opposed to something that could be built. 
 â€‹

 Often those people are often depressed, because they sense something is just not right. They want to be more and do more, but they feel helpless and caged by their inability to do so. This is a form of illness, and it can be overcome in the right conditions in the huge majority of people.



I agree with this statement of yours, and tons of media have tapped into this helplessness (like Fight Club), but the solution to it isn't as idealistically cut and dry as you make it seem. I mean how do you recommend that they escape this cage, and is there really room these days for everyone to succeed? You can't just tell someone to "Just go find it" if they're doing it wrong or if the opportunities they're seeking are undoable. In an ideal world everyone would be where they need to be, but there's more people these days than there are needs. In essence, you're right about the problem, but the solution's more complicated than "Look harder!". 

For Cain, that message he can see from how much he's kicking back right now, but when given to someone who is actively trying and failing? Being told to "look harder" can actually make them feel like more of a failure. Even when he does go back onto the road of purpose, whose to say that he'll even know where to look next? He'd likely benefit more from suggestions than raw pep-talk. 

How often do you wager that their depression comes from circumstance instead of organic or other reasons? It's probably the majority these days, but I don't have the split of numbers on-hand. 
 

Wow. 

Would you say you don't heavily rely on your relationships to be motivated to do stuff (go on a trip in Asia), included maybe even living?

Honestly, I've lost most of my muses, and as I get older more and more of them seem to fade. It's hard to be motivated to do things when slim to none of it add up to anything meaningful. Barely anything really stimulates me now, so it's hard to find motivation when the reward isn't always worth the price. At least with a relationship I can do things and watch them enjoy themselves, parasiting off the sliver of their release that I can enjoy as if it were my own. I cannot enjoy myself too well these days, but I can vicariously enjoy another who has it better off than I do, being happy for their happiness instead of my own that's so hard to please now. 

I feel old and tired despite being so young, and I need others to leech off of to feel anything for myself other than fear and depression. It's hard to motivate myself when the carrot at the end of my stick is so moldy and stale, but I've found that other people's carrots still look tasty enough to share. 

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Kok

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Primal stated: source post

If it were that easy, why wouldn't everyone be on the same path? 

Who said it was easy? If you don't kick your own ass....who do you think is responsible for doing so?

There's plenty out there kicking their own asses into a crater in the pavement with little to nothing to show for it these days. That's not a reason to not try, but it shows that it's not as simple as "they aren't trying". 
 

All I read in the rest is excuses why you think you can not....but not a thing about what you CAN..so..what the hell do you expect?

I was arguing from the other side of it from the "CAN" already being represented. If he were representing the can not as if it were the only answer with a flimsy premise as to why, I'd likely be aiming to represent the can. Both sides have points in that it's good to be motivated, as not trying at all accomplishes about as much as trying and failing. 

Effectively, I'm on the "trying and failing" road, a mid-ground. I see it as pretty damn near hopeless to try to get where I want to be, but I don't have that stop me from trying on the off-chance that it'll somehow work out for me. As such I argue in favor of trying despite also spouting the pessimistic reality and gauging what makes for different failures from different people. 
 

the "how"

...lol....MOVE YOUR FUCKING ASS....that's the magik of "how"...no excuses...

Move it where though, or move it how? It's never this simply vague even when a person attempts to render it so. Movement is a factor, but it's not all there is to it. Even (most) homeless people know how to move. 

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Turncoat stated: source post

How hard do you figure that it is then? Your use of "from within you" makes it sound like it's already there, pre-existing, as opposed to something that could be built. 

You asked me where the energy comes from. It comes from within. Even if there are external factors to motivate you, even if it is weak at first and you have to feed it, eventually you have to tap into inner resources.

 

You can't just tell someone to "Just go find it" if they're doing it wrong or if the opportunities they're seeking are undoable. In an ideal world everyone would be where they need to be, but there's more people these days than there are needs. In essence, you're right about the problem, but the solution's more complicated than "Look harder!". 

I only say that to people I don't know well in hopes that they will at least give it some thought and gain some hope that their situation can change. Everyone has some talent, something they are naturally gifted at. Most people know their strengths by a certain age. Looking for achievements in that area is a good point to start. Building a future around your natural strengths is a smart thing to do, and often the easiest path. Struggling in areas you're not meant for can lead to failures, loss of confidence and hopelessness.

 

For Cain, that message he can see from how much he's kicking back right now, but when given to someone who is actively trying and failing? Being told to "look harder" can actually make them feel like more of a failure. 

Someone who is trying and "failing" is still actively doing something. The failures make them gain experience, and after each failure they are better off as a person and closer to his/her goal for having that experience compared to not having had that experience. The biggest danger would be to let his/her self esteem plummet, and in those circumstances good company and support from others can be very important.

 

How often do you wager that their depression comes from circumstance instead of organic or other reasons? It's probably the majority these days, but I don't have the split of numbers on-hand. 

I think in 100% of the cases it is a mix of both. They are both changeable imo. The environment more easily than the inner brain chemistry though.

 

Honestly, I've lost most of my muses, and as I get older more and more of them seem to fade. It's hard to be motivated to do things when slim to none of it add up to anything meaningful. Barely anything really stimulates me now, so it's hard to find motivation when the reward isn't always worth the price. At least with a relationship I can do things and watch them enjoy themselves, parasiting off the sliver of their release that I can enjoy as if it were my own. I cannot enjoy myself too well these days, but I can vicariously enjoy another who has it better off than I do, being happy for their happiness instead of my own that's so hard to please now. 

I feel old and tired despite being so young, and I need others to leech off of to feel anything for myself other than fear and depression. It's hard to motivate myself when the carrot at the end of my stick is so moldy and stale, but I've found that other people's carrots still look tasty enough to share. 

When was the carrot fresh for you Turn? What made you happy in the past? Do you think it's worth trying to put life back into the carrot? I mean, everyone wants happiness.

You studied acting, right? Is there anything involving that that you'd like? Did you become good at controlling your face/body/voice, did you take pride in your acting abilities at any point?

You know a lot about comic verse, both comics and movies. There are plenty of people passionate about comics. Maybe start looking for like-minded groups like Comicon? You are also good with words, with research, analysis/critic, organizing. Maybe write a blog about it? Your summaries of Mee's days in Turkey were hilarious. Become a writer/editor of some comic-related news media? I dunno if that is even a thing. There are jobs where your skills can be put to good use Turncoat and you can enjoy what you are doing too. Are you sure you've looked into all of them? Also I remember something about you being interested into human resources? Or told you'd be good at a job like that?

I think you have a mind that is different from most people's and there is a sense of loneliness and disconnect coming from there. You are obviously above average intelligence so that alone can depress and under stimulate someone. But this world is huge and there are more like-minded people out there, and most importantly, people looking for people like you out there.

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Edvard stated: source post

For Cain, that message he can see from how much he's kicking back right now, but when given to someone who is actively trying and failing? Being told to "look harder" can actually make them feel like more of a failure. 

Someone who is trying and "failing" is still actively doing something. The failures make them gain experience, and after each failure they are better off as a person and closer to his/her goal for having that experience compared to not having had that experience. The biggest danger would be to let his/her self esteem plummet, and in those circumstances good company and support from others can be very important.

One of the biggest obstacles these days is even getting your foot in the door. So much is done online now, making it become a factor of luck, timing, and what credentials can be read by a machine when singling you out for the next potential candidate. From that, it is possible to fail with little to no actual experience gained from it, and from there self esteem only has so many options typically. 

You benefit more these days from what you are more than how hard you're trying. If I'd become a nurse instead, or planned on doing restaurant work for the rest of my life, I'd be set, but that's not what I want. 
 

How often do you wager that their depression comes from circumstance instead of organic or other reasons? It's probably the majority these days, but I don't have the split of numbers on-hand. 

I think in 100% of the cases it is a mix of both. They are both changeable imo. The environment more easily than the inner brain chemistry though.

I don't know, I've seen people too depressed to even motivate getting out of bed or moving their limbs. Their brain is practically dead weighting the rest of them. Environment can change if you have the means to, but brain chemistry's a mess. Even if they're planted into a situation of success from good connections and opportunities falling onto their laps, they tend to not actually want anything. Even if they get what they want, they're more likely to find that they don't want it anymore once they have it from it not providing the same happiness that they imagined. 

How do you make such people want something? They need to want to proceed, and they can physically be unable to fathom want if it's extreme enough. 
 

Honestly, I've lost most of my muses, and as I get older more and more of them seem to fade. It's hard to be motivated to do things when slim to none of it add up to anything meaningful. Barely anything really stimulates me now, so it's hard to find motivation when the reward isn't always worth the price. At least with a relationship I can do things and watch them enjoy themselves, parasiting off the sliver of their release that I can enjoy as if it were my own. I cannot enjoy myself too well these days, but I can vicariously enjoy another who has it better off than I do, being happy for their happiness instead of my own that's so hard to please now. 

I feel old and tired despite being so young, and I need others to leech off of to feel anything for myself other than fear and depression. It's hard to motivate myself when the carrot at the end of my stick is so moldy and stale, but I've found that other people's carrots still look tasty enough to share. 

When was the carrot fresh for you Turn? What made you happy in the past? Do you think it's worth trying to put life back into the carrot? I mean, everyone wants happiness.

Happiness was always hard to find even as a kid, but most things that did make me happy are fading in potency if it's not already gone. 

Like I said, the carrot is moldy, poisonous even, but other people who still have zeal and life have perfectly fine carrots for me to enjoy if I can help tend to their gardens in lieu of my own hopeless salt and soil. I've accepted that happiness isn't really a common thing for me, so I've settled with comfort being the goal. Comfort can remain even if happiness fades. 
 

You studied acting, right? Is there anything involving that that you'd like? Did you become good at controlling your face/body/voice, did you take pride in your acting abilities at any point?

I did enjoy that, but it was always more of an elective thing. I don't see that being where I'll succeed unless it's analysis. It's even more competitive than where I'm trying to succeed now. 
 

You know a lot about comic verse, both comics and movies.

For what I know about comics I'm actually quite uninformed by comparison. How am I supposed to compete against the currently successful charismatic(ish) autists out there when the strongest point for it is trivia? A lot of what I know now's from a friend who's worse about things like TVTropes than I am, where I was conversationally the wall for his conversational game of solo tennis. There'd need to be a hook that hasn't been done before, and there'd need to be something that'd help hoist it above the current influx of others trying the exact same thing. 
 

You are also good with words, with research, analysis/critic, organizing.

I'm a scatterbrain that uses the internet to fill in the half-thoughts I'm full of. I use references as a way of fumbling less, or as humor once I've already thought of a tangent that barely applies. In many cases a reference gets closer to home than my tangled mess of a visually-themed sentence appears without it. 

My research is honestly sub-par, and my organizing is needed to make myself appear at least somewhat legible. I could help someone else be better, but by myself I'm a lot of part-way-there's. Analysis/Critique is all I've really got, and everyone and their mother does that shit on the internet these days. 
 

Your summaries of Mee's days in Turkey were hilarious. Become a writer/editor of some comic-related news media?

Stuff like that and summarizing Luna's pieces work from me bouncing off of someone else. I'm pretty much designed to be a team player or a mirror that reflects someone else's shine. 
 

There are jobs where your skills can be put to good use Turncoat and you can enjoy what you are doing too. Are you sure you've looked into all of them?

Obviously rhetorical, as there's no way for me to see all of them

I've been looking for a while while doing shit work in the meantime. It's looking like if I expect anything to happen that I'll likely need to go back to school and turn my psych minor into something more. 
 

I think you have a mind that is different from most people's and there is a sense of loneliness and disconnect coming from there. You are obviously above average intelligence so that alone can depress and under stimulate someone. But this world is huge and there are more like-minded people out there, and most importantly, people looking for people like you out there.

For every talent I have, especially with the internet now, there's people already in place that do what I do twenty times better. Everyone thinks they can be the next internet critic or article writer, and the sheer volume of it makes those that succeed overshadow the masses that much harder while the masses themselves turn it into a matter of luck-through-oversaturation. Seriously, you can't walk through youtube without encountering multiple channels worth of critics all going at the same topic at once. 

I know it's a lot of "IT'S HOPELESSSSSS!" sounding-rants, but this is pretty much where I've been steered after trying for this long. It's hard to carry the same zeal as "The Little Engine That Could" when the story spans a dictionary's length instead of a children's book's, but there's always that part of me that hopes I'll be laughing with how hopeless it once looked as opposed to at how hopeless it continues to, so for that I keep trying. 

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Turncoat,

 

Too much thinking, not enough Doing....Failure is part and parcel of existence....the Lessons of Life. ..lol....my book is overflowing... 

In short;

What do you want?

Heart of hearts....no lies...for yourself on a basic utterly selfish level?

Know that. Then go for it....balls to the wall.....and even fail....then get up....and refine the plan....do it again...

Of course, needs to be reasonable and work within your abilities. Reality is brutal if you refuse to keep that at the forefront of awareness. 

 

And agree with everything Edvard stated....and....lol....that is a rarity. 

I think in 100% of the cases it is a mix of both. They are both changeable imo. The environment more easily than the inner brain chemistry though.

Environment is really important I think.......depends on what makes you happy....

 

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Turncoat stated: source post

I don't know, I've seen people too depressed to even motivate getting out of bed or moving their limbs. Their brain is practically dead weighting the rest of them.

If they don't even get out of bed, who feeds them? If it is that bad, medical help is necessary. Anyway, it has to gradually get at that point. And the environment always plays some role, if not in triggering then in encouraging it.

I genuinely wonder what would happen if that depressive fellow is given some money and put on the streets in some developing country. I'm certain at least some of them would be snapped out of their minds and into reality.

 

a mess.

:D

Even if they're planted into a situation of success from good connections and opportunities falling onto their laps, they tend to not actually want anything.

I get that. Planting people into success is not the solution, and a big part of the problem imo. They don't grow their own wings that way.  They don't want anything because they have the basics for granted, and in most cases they have grown up with the basics being given to them with little effort until a too old age. It is hard to build confidence and ambition this way.

The main idea of the rest of the post is that you are trying to do stuff, you want to evolve, but

For every talent I have, especially with the internet now, there's people already in place that do what I do twenty times better. 

You know you are only talking about the USA, right? I get that in a too competitive environment it is hard, and the USA is very competitive. Brains and talents from everywhere moved there and they encouraged a dynamics with high standards where even the average person feels trapped and unable to move up the ladder. But my man, the world is huge. There are places where simply mastering English is a huge advantage. Places where simply being American is seen as awesome. Maybe look into cental or south America or eastern Europe. There are so many gaps there to be filled for someone with your education and talents. Learn Portuguese or Bulgarian for example, try to make a living where your skills and education are 20 times better than the average. You know Meta, he might even help you out at first. There are many opportunities in those countries, they don't have stuff you are used to or your services, or even know they exist. You mentioned a course in birdwatching in some post. How full do you think birdwatching tourism is in places like Bulgaria or the Danube Delta? I honestly don't know and you need to research stuff of course. But it is these sorts of ideas that are literally life changing if you let them be.

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