"Pain feels good to the observer and so seeing another in pain empathetically triggers a pleasurable feeling"
Having a fantasie then applying it in real life, seeing how one reacts, is pleasurable. I'm confused by "pain feels good by the observer" as one is not feeling the pain but observing it. It'd be the observation of pain that it's pleasurable. Wouldn't it?
"Struggle is also one of the prettiest displays a person can express. It's so... honest, so expressive, so real. It also stems from an appetite, an itch, it feels good to watch another person writhe. If the person's into it, it also makes their eyes express a needy vulnerability, a dilated, dreamy-eyed look of want that allows for further action. Even penetration triggers a similar interest, that look they give as entry begins, it's not that different from other forms of infliction. Defiance makes it better too, as then it feels like a challenge, progressing them towards their inner truth, their inner weakness, the side of them that lacks all those masks, all those barriers, and is truly the core of a human creature."
I'm reminded of the 'Reek' creature in GoT.
Please elaborate. How is this any more 'true' or 'real' than any other facet of human response or functioning?
In empathetic responses, the same or similar neuromechanisms to what the observer would experience in the same or similar situation are triggered. Empathy is basically sharing an affective state.
In a vast majority of individuals, seeing another in pain or distress causes them to respond due to vicarious pain or distress. In this way empathy triggers prosocial behaviour.
In a masochist, however, pain is neurologically wired to reward/pleasure systems. Sadomasochism involves an individual who is masochistic, who receives a neurological reward from pain and capable of empathetic response to pain, viewing another individual experiencing pain. This would trigger pleasureable, aka sadistic, response in the brain for the observing individual.
Pain empathy kinda works on a similar principle to affective empathy, how one might feel happy when seeing a friend happy, but obviously with pain and the other person might not actually be enjoying it.
It shows what is underneath, what's behind all those layers, masks, shells, what remains when their pretenses and composure are gone. It can be inaccurate in the sense of learning information directly, but it's accurate in the sense of rendering a person willing to say anything out of desperation. That doesn't come from nowhere,and the journey to it teaches much as well about their character. People are like those Russian dolls, the ones that you open only to find another, smaller doll? Each doll shows a little more about the person than you've seen previously, and once you hit that disturbed form of bedrock it's a truly desperate thing that most people wish to deny the existence of within themselves.
In Theon's case what was beneath was a more blatant display of a sniveling childish coward, and from the looks of things it didn't require peeling away too many layers (his gift to the Iron Islands was the last straw, and it was one hell of a straw, but he only had like... two or three senses of self before becoming Stockholm-y). He tried to act all strong, but it was transparent for all who saw, while post-torture there wasn't even an inch of room to deny his true nature.
Pain opens doors, I know this much from experience. Even things unknown to the afflicted can reveal themselves with enough of it. There's also a temporary break versus a more permanent one, and Theon's case... I don't see him fully coming back from that. A lesser form can teach about the person without turning them into Reek.
Astamiss stated: source post
Cricket stated: source post
In a masochist, however, pain is neurologically wired to reward/pleasure systems. Sadomasochism involves an individual who is masochistic, who receives a neurological reward from pain and capable of empathetic response to pain, viewing another individual experiencing pain. This would trigger pleasureable, aka sadistic, response in the brain for the observing individual.
So what I am seeing is that because the masochist likes pain they kind of assume the other person likes pain in a way. It makes them feel like they are doing the other person good because it feels good for them?
I think if this is what is going on it kind of makes sense. I just think the only problem is... I know I love mint though I know others who do not like mint. I will not make someone I know who does not like mint a mint icing cake. I know that everyone has different tastes. It's not about giving them what I want. It's about giving them what they want. I might be mistaking the point or oversimplifying this view of pain. I would not want to make a straw man argument.
It's not that they think the other individual in pain is experiencing pleasure. It's that the empathetic pain response triggers pleasure in the sadomasochist. They may be fully aware that the other is in distress, but since the neural pain mechanisms are crossed with pleasure in their brains and the pain mechanism is being empathetically triggered, they can not help but experience pleasure from it.
Turncoat stated: source post
It shows what is underneath, what's behind all those layers, masks, shells, what remains when their pretenses and composure are gone. It can be inaccurate in the sense of learning information directly, but it's accurate in the sense of rendering a person willing to say anything out of desperation. That doesn't come from nowhere,and the journey to it teaches much as well about their character. People are like those Russian dolls, the ones that you open only to find another, smaller doll? Each doll shows a little more about the person than you've seen previously, and once you hit that disturbed form of bedrock it's a truly desperate thing that most people wish to deny the existence of within themselves.
In Theon's case what was beneath was a more blatant display of a sniveling childish coward, and from the looks of things it didn't require peeling away too many layers (his gift to the Iron Islands was the last straw, and it was one hell of a straw, but he only had like... two or three senses of self before becoming Stockholm-y). He tried to act all strong, but it was transparent for all who saw, while post-torture there wasn't even an inch of room to deny his true nature.
Pain opens doors, I know this much from experience. Even things unknown to the afflicted can reveal themselves with enough of it. There's also a temporary break versus a more permanent one, and Theon's case... I don't see him fully coming back from that. A lesser form can teach about the person without turning them into Reek.
I am weak and fearful. I never deny it. I just know you can't be brave if you're not afraid. I know courage is not someone who is not afraid. I think it takes real strength to do something despite your own fears and and weakness for a good reason.
I think it takes more strength courage and bravery for someone to climb a tower when they are afraid of heights. I mean when their nears shake and their heart races and everything inside screams just climb down and give up. It is when all noise around them ceases and all that is running through their head is that they are too high up. It is in the darkest moments when the light shines the brightest.
I don't see bravery in in the absence of fear. In the case where someone is not afraid of heights and they climb a tall tower it is not bravery strength or courage.
Lack of fear opens so many options. It makes one free.
Cricket stated: source post
In a masochist, however, pain is neurologically wired to reward/pleasure systems. Sadomasochism involves an individual who is masochistic, who receives a neurological reward from pain and capable of empathetic response to pain, viewing another individual experiencing pain. This would trigger pleasureable, aka sadistic, response in the brain for the observing individual.
So what I am seeing is that because the masochist likes pain they kind of assume the other person likes pain in a way. It makes them feel like they are doing the other person good because it feels good for them?
I think if this is what is going on it kind of makes sense. I just think the only problem is... I know I love mint though I know others who do not like mint. I will not make someone I know who does not like mint a mint icing cake. I know that everyone has different tastes. It's not about giving them what I want. It's about giving them what they want. I might be mistaking the point or oversimplifying this view of pain. I would not want to make a straw man argument.
Turncoat stated: source post
It shows what is underneath, what's behind all those layers, masks, shells, what remains when their pretenses and composure are gone. It can be inaccurate in the sense of learning information directly, but it's accurate in the sense of rendering a person willing to say anything out of desperation. That doesn't come from nowhere,and the journey to it teaches much as well about their character. People are like those Russian dolls, the ones that you open only to find another, smaller doll? Each doll shows a little more about the person than you've seen previously, and once you hit that disturbed form of bedrock it's a truly desperate thing that most people wish to deny the existence of within themselves.
In Theon's case what was beneath was a more blatant display of a sniveling childish coward, and from the looks of things it didn't require peeling away too many layers (his gift to the Iron Islands was the last straw, and it was one hell of a straw, but he only had like... two or three senses of self before becoming Stockholm-y). He tried to act all strong, but it was transparent for all who saw, while post-torture there wasn't even an inch of room to deny his true nature.
Pain opens doors, I know this much from experience. Even things unknown to the afflicted can reveal themselves with enough of it. There's also a temporary break versus a more permanent one, and Theon's case... I don't see him fully coming back from that. A lesser form can teach about the person without turning them into Reek.
I am weak and fearful. I never deny it. I just know you can't be brave if you're not afraid. I know courage is not someone who is not afraid. I think it takes real strength to do something despite your own fears and and weakness for a good reason.
I think it takes more strength courage and bravery for someone to climb a tower when they are afraid of heights. I mean when their knees shake and their heart races and everything inside screams just climb down and give up. It is when all noise around them ceases and all that is running through their head is that they are too high up. It is in the darkest moments when the light shines the brightest.
I don't see bravery in in the absence of fear. In the case where someone is not afraid of heights and they climb a tall tower it is not bravery strength or courage.
I'm more of a sexual sadist than an emotional one. It is about exercising power over someone who craves it... watching them cringe, squirm, and finally yield under you. Tasting their vulnerability. Watching every microexpression on their face as they give themselves up for your pleasure... moaning, writhing and blissing out in subspace. It's all so delicious and erotic.
Emotional sadism is satisfying if my target is impersonal, deserving of my contempt, or robust enough to handle being torn down a bit, but I try not to indulge in it too much. It makes me harder, and I already have an issue with being too callous.
Cricket stated: source post
It's not that they think the other individual in pain is experiencing pleasure. It's that the empathetic pain response triggers pleasure in the sadomasochist. They may be fully aware that the other is in distress, but since the neural pain mechanisms are crossed with pleasure in their brains and the pain mechanism is being empathetically triggered, they can not help but experience pleasure from it.
So it's more like seeing someone laugh or yawn and how it makes a response of me laughing and yawning. It is just mixed up. I think I get it.