Fascinating.
Way to miss the point spectacularly. All I was saying was that humans live in groups because it is the best way for them, as individuals, to survive. Surely you, with your thirst for isolation, must have to cooperate in a group sometimes when you'd prefer to be on your own, and did it not for the benefit of the group but because it benefits you as an individual. If your survival is linked to the success of the group you are with then obvs you want that group to succeed because ultimately you will succeed, not because you give a crap about the future of your species as a whole.
Think bigger, like protecting children and women. Which is a reaction people have globally.
do they? That's very chivalrous and all, but I think that's your culture talking more than the way you're hardwired. I can think of many conflicts, like stuff going on in Africa at the moment, where women and children are just as much targets.
It doesn't even have to be your baby for it to seem cute, regardless of whose it is people have a forced fondness towards it. It has nothing to do with passing on your own genes. That's a clear example of the group survival wiring.
i think you may feel differently about other people's kids once you've had your own.
And purely cultural my ass, find an example where it's widely accepted to just kill strangers without them believing they are committing some sort of trespass.
challenge accepted.
I was reading recently about the Ache people of Paraguay...not specifically to do with trespass, but there were many examples of how killing was an accepted part of their culture, such as a child being buried alive because "it was funny looking and the other children laughed at it", or a man killing a boy because he was "in a bad mood and the child was crying".
Note how there's no need of the complex mental gymnastics many in the western world need to sanitise killing, stuff like patriotism, religion, freedom, democracy...taking life without any thought to the future of the species is part of human nature, and your squeamishness about it is purely a product of the culture you were raised in.
by Turncoat
Also notice how your data there is about prehistoric humans instead of the current ones.
There's actually very little evidence that humans have evolved that much since c30,000 yrs ago. When you think about how long humans have been on the earth, our present modernity is just a blip and our brains haven't caught up yet, which is why when kids have nightmares it tends to be about wolves and snakes and stuff chasing them, rather than car accidents or someone getting hold of your bank details.
"While it's not impossible for a human being to kill another human being, there's some definite barriers there that make it harder than squashing bugs."
I agree, for the vast majority of ppl that is the case, and it's a good thing that it is. I didn't read the OP as I don't tend to read posts from users with anime avatars as a matter of principle, but I can imagine he was talking about some deeply held desire to pierce human flesh with his knife whilst wiping the emo hair out of his face and taking a selfie. As fucked up as it is, if there are many people who are interested in hunting animals for fun, long after we have any biological need to do so, surely it stands to reason there is going to be a subset of the population interested in violence against our own species just for the sake of it.
My grandmother, in her late 80s, absolutely LOVES gore videos, reports of grisly murders, biographies of serial killers...she seriously can't get enough of the stuff. While I don't have much interest in that kinda thing myself, I don't think it's any less natural than going out fox hunting for fun.
by Systematic"I was reading recently about the Ache people of Paraguay...not specifically to do with trespass, but there were many examples of how killing was an accepted part of their culture, such as a child being buried alive because "it was funny looking and the other children laughed at it", or a man killing a boy because he was "in a bad mood and the child was crying".
Did you just make this shit up or get a bad source? I see nothing about killing in the wiki article about them, besides them being enslaved.
I was reading about them in a book that's very popular at the moment called Sapiens, A Brief History Of Humankind. It's a bit long, but worth a read. That specific example about the Ache was on p.59. Having spent a good 10 mins trying to find the page number (before realising there was an index at the back, duh) I can't really be bothered to find an online source, but I"m sure they're out there.
I agree with what you're saying about it being hard for most ppl to kill other humans, but one further point in addition to what I just said above...when you think about times humanity has come in danger of extinction, like the cold war, you've got to wonder if we really are programmed to survive as a species, or even sustainable in such large numbers. Many people are squeamish about killing when it's happening in front of them, but desensitised to it when it's happening on a mass scale, like the holocaust or conflicts happening far away.
"when you think about times humanity has come in danger of extinction, like the cold war, you've got to wonder if we really are programmed to survive as a species, or even sustainable in such large numbers."
I don't think human nature/evoloution has had time to account for technology. Genetic changes take 10k years plus to become prominent while it took us only 60 years from us constructing the first plane, to us land on the moon. I don't believe people are sophisticated enough to handle the amount of technology. We act like ant colonies with some access to technology.
As stalin said "one death a tragedy, a thousand deaths a statistic" I don't believe that human nature accountede for mass deaths and I don't think the human mind can fully understand genocide on a large scale. Famed Serial killers are more feared than the holocaust, it takes you to go to one of the camps, see how the people lived and seeing the deceased's humans nature to wake up emotionally and triggers that response.
"I was reading recently about the Ache people of Paraguay...not specifically to do with trespass, but there were many examples of how killing was an accepted part of their culture, such as a child being buried alive because "it was funny looking and the other children laughed at it", or a man killing a boy because he was "in a bad mood and the child was crying".
Did you just make this shit up or get a bad source? I see nothing about killing in the wiki article about them, besides them being enslaved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ach%C3%A9_people#Social_norms.2C_ethnic_signals.2C_rituals_and_beliefs
"do they? That's very chivalrous and all, but I think that's your culture talking more than the way you're hardwired. I can think of many conflicts, like stuff going on in Africa at the moment, where women and children are just as much targets."
And even there women and children are given more mercy and have more of a chance to live than men who are just outright killed. In most cases women are raped/enslaved and kids become soldiers. Just because the hostility of that region is higher doesn't exclude them from that natural bias. And those people have been desensitized from countless numbers of wars, I can guarantee their first time wasn't pleasant
"i think you may feel differently about other people's kids once you've had your own."
I don't know if you're trying to disagree with that point? I'd hope not. Mother's are the ones that give off the most reaction to kids more than other people. Obviously more for their own kids, but that doesn't stop them from calling the other kids cute and showing fondness towards them.
"taking life without any thought to the future of the species is part of human nature, and your squeamishness about it is purely a product of the culture you were raised in."
My western culture bolsters a murder rate that shames most countries 1st world countries in Europe. But, asides that this isn't an opinion this is scientifically proven to be the default in all humans(asides some exceptions here and there) to have these barriers against killing people. It's common enough, I don't even have to post a link, just google "psychological consequences of killing". Lol western culture
And one further piece of evidence is how military men, trained to kill for years and raised in an environment where fighting is prevalent and killing is encouraged still have trouble bypassing those barriers for their first kill.
"I drive by probably a hundred people walking on the sidewalk. At anytime Im capable of ending their life with my bumper, but I dont. That control you think you need seems more like a insecurity thats compelling you to fulfill it and less of an actual stimulation."
I never claimed it was a need, nor did I say I feel compelled to do it. So, don't put my words in my mouth.
It's an interest, a desire, unlike the need you felt to stalk some bitch who rejected you.
My interest in murder is no different than, say, a fisherman's interest in fishing. We just wanna catch different things for different reasons.
Murder is illegal because we live in a dualistic universe. One's and Zeros. One = Existance Zero = Non-Existance
Those individuals who are most capable of turning an existing individual into a non-existing individual are at the top of the "food chain". Obviously things that exist want to continue to exist, and as a result, they kneel to the more powerful power. Thus the rise of clan and tribal leaders.
When you introduce capitalism into the mix, power shifts from the strong to the smart. Those existing individuals who make use of the tool of capitalism become more powerful and are thus able to make those they dislike not exist. As a result capitalism is the current paradigm that we live by.
In order for capitalism to excel, you want lots of people to produce a lot of cool things so that the rich can have lots of cool things to buy, and a large pool of labor to hire, thus murder goes against the rules of capitalism. A ruler who allows murder will be weaker than a ruler who doesn't.
"Do you honestly believe that every human life is a valuable resource? Seriously."
I strongly believe every life has the potential to have a decent if not considerable amount of value.
"Considering I'm also human, explain to me how my life is a valuable resource to you..."
It isn't. But the effort put towards killing someone can be instead used to further them with better results.
"Your life doesn't mean shit to me. If you die, it won't affect my life in any way whatsoever. Why? Because you're worthless to me."
This isn't really about how much I mean to you or anyone else. I'm looking at life as a very versatile tool to get practically anything done, while you're looking to break said tool for a momentary pleasure.
"People are just ants on a fucking ant hill. Kill one, there are plenty of others to take it's place."
Yes, but if we're talking in a general sense, like this thread was before, it'd set humanity back. It's impractical.
"Having someone's life in your hands, having complete control knowing that in those very moments you can end all their hopes, their dreams, their desires, their ambitions is fabricated power?"
You have nothing compared to shaping their life. You're simply flipping the on/off switch. Governing, sculpting, molding someone and their ambitions would serve to give you a better, consistent feeling of power.
"You have no idea what real power feels like until have that kind of control."
I drive by probably a hundred people walking on the sidewalk. At anytime Im capable of ending their life with my bumper, but I dont. That control you think you need seems more like a insecurity thats compelling you to fulfill it and less of an actual stimulation.
Reaper killed a spider. She felt all 'powerful' then reality dawned. Nobody cares. So, she retreats to the internet to develop an online persona of badassery and goes on and on like a broken record.
OP develops online characters based off cartoons and video games. That lack of self seems to be the driver. Anything for attention. SC boasts shit eating SJWs wanting their feels validated.
"In comparison to what you can do with a life, that reward is nothing."
You and I obviously have a very different mindset.
"Of course, but what's the point in wasting a invaluable resource? For some temporary, fabricated sense of power? It's inefficient."
Do you honestly believe that every human life is a valuable resource? Seriously.
Considering I'm also human, explain to me how my life is a valuable resource to you...
Your life doesn't mean shit to me. If you die, it won't affect my life in any way whatsoever. Why? Because you're worthless to me.
People are just ants on a fucking ant hill. Kill one, there are plenty of others to take it's place.
Having someone's life in your hands, having complete control knowing that in those very moments you can end all their hopes, their dreams, their desires, their ambitions is fabricated power?
You have no idea what real power feels like until have that kind of control.