"And like those, while thinking you're right may embolden you to act outside of reason, just because you think you're in the right doesn't mean you are."
It doesn't necessarily mean that I'm incorrect either.
"Also, a big hallmark of insanity is thinking you are the rational one, and everyone else is irrational, so you might want to have that checked out, just in case."
What would draw you away from the possibility that society isn't insane?
by ShogoMakishimaI think what's interesting about the idea of murder is that you don't really need a motive to actually do it, but having one makes things more interesting. I've spent lots of time speculating what I might have or be and realized none of that truly matters. I don't believe that I have bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, or antisocial personality disorder. I'm now realizing that I am completely normal and my way of thinking is just the same as everyone else's, generally speaking of course.
What's great about the thought of being normal, is that it's not me who is mentally ill, but society who is mentally ill. There method of thinking is distorted and doesn't work properly. But with me having a normal and relatively pure mind, I am able to lie and steal and be considered normal and essentially a kind hearted human being, which is true. Ultimately, the same rule applies to murder, I'm starting to understand that you don't need a form of mental illness in order to kill someone, you simply must act based upon what you believe is right.
Yes, this is the case. How else would the military function? Consider the crusades, or the holocaust. And like those, while thinking you're right may embolden you to act outside of reason, just because you think you're in the right doesn't mean you are.
Also, a big hallmark of insanity is thinking you are the rational one, and everyone else is irrational, so you might want to have that checked out, just in case.
"Why do you believe we are hard wired against doing so? For our own safety, or for our own restraint? I believe accomplishing something as astounding as taking another life should only be as difficult as you make it, wether it's a family member or a stranger."
The human race is hardwired to survive, not as individuals but as a species. The human mind has certain triggers and barriers evolution has set up to help ensure the survival of humans. Whether it be a fear of heights, spiders or clowns they all have primitive survival roots. I'll just name a few for examples
People lacked basic understanding back then, eventually these barriers developed as a fool proof way to avoid these behaviors/things
Fear of Heights - Pretty obvious, was developed because too many people died of falling.
Fear of Spiders - Back in those times, getting bit by one probably meant death. The mind has a lot of triggers towards anything that scuttles in general.
Fear of Clowns - The trade mark white face look clowns give is eerily reminiscent to deathly ill or sick individuals whose skin turns pale.
Claustrophobia - Most likely came from too many pre-homosapiens going into caves or dens where a plethora of life threatening dangers waited.
Behaviors like seeing babies as cute, parental bonds, love, all of it is just for survival. In my opinion(which isn't relevant to this discussion at all) none of this benefits the individual today, it becomes a hindrance.
Really we could just go down a list of behaviors that are enforced by the mind for the survival of the species. Killing one's own is definatley on the list and I imagine it's quite the mental experience. I don't read up much on their testimonies, but as proof don't most serial killers say their first experience was the most memorable? Probably because of the mental reaction to all of it.
One last piece I've struggled with is isolation. Hardwiring tells you to be around people, the reaction to isolation is one of the more violent ones where the mind literally rips itself apart. Clear and cut being away and alone back then meant certain death.
All of this hard-wiring has been proven to exist, just look at the actions of others and you'll realize even though we aren't in those times it still dictates how we live our lives.
Are you fucking kidding me? I really didn't think I'd have to explain this.
"Sorry but I totally disagree. I read of a recent study (will try and find the source), which did tests on the remains of prehistoric humans and found that upwards of 20% died through acts of violence (smashed in skulls and so on) almost certainly perpetrated by other humans"
Of course human fought eachother, but it wasnt them singling out one another. They fought in groups and communities clashed with one another, inside those groups those mental guidelines were still there. You really needed to read a fucking study to realize cavemen killed each other all the time?
he examples you mentioned are helpful to the individual who has those instincts, but doesn't mean he is going to protect others from the spider or whatever he's afraid of.
Think bigger, like protecting children and women. Which is a reaction people have globally.
"Stuff like finding babies cute is to make you want to pass on your genes and protect them."
It doesn't even have to be your baby for it to seem cute, regardless of whose it is people have a forced fondness towards it. It has nothing to do with passing on your own genes. That's a clear example of the group survival wiring.
"But if you are a total stranger who I need nothing from, like a member of another group, for much of human history it would have been totally ok for me to kill you. The taboo against murdering any other human is purely cultural."
No, the brain wont allow the killing of another human being just because you don't know it. For most people it takes them or their group being threatened in some way or some difference to occur for the mind to give it the greenlight. Bottom line, people are by default geared towards defending their people.
And purely cultural my ass, find an example where it's widely accepted to just kill strangers without them believing they are committing some sort of trespass.
"It doesn't matter how much "clarity" you have. If even the most conditioned minds spend enough time in isolation the brain practically self destructs, it's not something you can build up an immunity to, you are forced to be around and have contact with people or lose your sanity."
What if the mind was neither sane nor insane from the beginning, what is to become of the contact with other people?
by ShogoMakishimaWell, I should be more specific. I'm not solely interested in murder, but mainly serial killing. Why do you believe we are hard wired against doing so? For our own safety, or for our own restraint? I believe accomplishing something as astounding as taking another life should only be as difficult as you make it, wether it's a family member or a stranger.
People are not specifically hard-wired against serial killing. People are generally hard-wired to follow social mores by their orbitofrontal cortex, this little region of the brain here:
Notice how the region is at the very "front" of the head and on the outermost part of the cerebral cortex. That tells you that this structure was one of the last to develop. As humans began to live in large collectives, to maintain order, they had to "weed out" persons who damaged the collective. Take what the Inuits do as an example.
"Psychiatric anthropologist Jane M. Murphy describe Inuit concept of kunlangeta, which refers to a person whose “mind knows what to do but does not do it.†Murphy writes that in Northwest Alaska, kunlangeta [psychopath] “might be applied to a man who, for example, repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and does not go hunting, and, when other men are out of the village, takes sexual advantage of many women.†Inuits tacitly assume that kunlangeta is irremediable. And so, according to Murphy, traditional Inuit approach to such a man was to insist that he go hunting, and, in the absence of witnesses, push him off the edge of ice."