"If what you wanted was a promotion and a pay rise, then why didn't you just find out who he wanted you to be and be like that? Not every boss actually wants employees to make helpful suggestions.
Also, what's the point in revenge just as you are about to leave? Why wait two and a half years?"
Shifting the blame, minimising the victim's feelings, distraction from the original point. Seems I've come to the right place. x
Now, gorgeous, how would YOU gaslight a psychopath?
Good observation. I must admit I am not clear on it myself. I think the basis for wanting to know if they could be gaslighted is on trying to get them into the same state of confusion that they put others in. And for the same reason. If you're confused and don't know what the fuck is going on, you can be controlled. Yes. Now that I think about it, my current setup is banking on the element of surprise to create the confusion. In contrast, the execution of gaslighting appears over a long, sustained period of time to get the victim to doubt themselves. This creates the confusion. My current strategy is not gaslighting at all, but simply relies on a stealth attack to catch them off guard. It does not rely on creating doubt whatsoever. So yeh....does the psychology of a psychopath generally allow for the incremental loss of confidence in their own reality? My gut tells me not, and now that I think about it, I think that may be due to the fact that psychopaths have huge egos and believe everything they believe is right. Gaslighting, I would say, necessarily requires that the victim has negative ego to begin to doubt themselves in the first place. Perhaps this is what FukdYoBitch was alluding to earlier. What do you think?
You shouldn't look at people as personality disorders. You should figure out their weaknesses based on consistency, and behavioral patterns. Take the "disorders" out of it and you are left with people. People will tell you whether or not you can get to them by interaction. After the interaction, you make moves based on what you observed of the person. Labeling them with a disorder you aren't properly educated on will cause you to make disastrous moves.
Are you trying to be a white knight of sorts? Why must they feel the confusion you and other "victims" felt?
You were outspokenly critical of the boss’s decision? Then, the boss asks the CIO for info. and you weigh in? Why the hell would you do that? There are ways to influence the top; that's not how.
The message you sent your higher-ups is that you think you’re smarter than them. And isn’t that really how you feel? Your ego is so engaged in being right and proving this guy wrong, that you can’t see the forest for the trees. If you really are smarter, focus on moving on fast. He said you’re not getting promoted and you've wasted five years proving him right. Plus people talk, so leaving a wake behind you is shooting yourself in the foot - again.
Learn from the feedback you’ve been given. Put down the ‘Snakes in Suits’ and read up on the emotional intelligence you’ve been told you lack. Find another job and play the game differently next time around.
Hey Piles.
"You shouldn't look at people as personality disorders. You should figure out their weaknesses based on consistency, and behavioral patterns. Take the "disorders" out of it and you are left with people. People will tell you whether or not you can get to them by interaction. After the interaction, you make moves based on what you observed of the person. Labeling them with a disorder you aren't properly educated on will cause you to make disastrous moves."
Agree wholeheartedly. If you are naturally inclined to this approach of playing each ball on its merits, you are going to be far more adaptive. I believe ASPD's are able to do this instinctively without thinking about it. Unfortunately, for 99% of the rest of the planet are geared towards labels and rules. E.g. "If BPD, then don't shame." It helps reduce the complexity. For now, that's the route I have to take to at least develop the mindfulness of dealing with people with personality disorders. Personally, I don't like the labels either. What I'm beginning to see is that there is no right or wrong, or good and evil. There are just neural networks which play less or more nicely with other neural networks. Eventually I need to get to the ASPD ideal of dealing with each person individually. For now, being able to identify group behaviours and testing reactions against them is the first step towards greater flexibility later.
"Are you trying to be a white knight of sorts? Why must they feel the confusion you and other "victims" felt?"
I don't particularly care about how they feel. It would be a bonus if they did but frankly, the lack of activation of the amygdala precludes this. What I'm after is pure, sweet unadulterated justice of revenge. I'd like to get this particular individual in enough hot water to get him fired so that my fellow abused colleagues can get a little respite. So from that perspective, yes, I suppose you could say I'm trying to be a white knight.
Woah! Easy big guy. Getting your lines crossed. The flouting of procurement policy two and a half years ago was a completely different incident to the email issue. The CIO did not have the info he was looking for and as the PM (in which I was included in the recipient's list) I did. There was a restructuring recently and the sociopath in question had pretty much ALL of his power taken away by Executive. The project in question is about two months behind (not my fault due to said psychopath playing political games and derailing shit all the time). The ICT team I work with agree that he keeps changing the target everytime we get on track. Also included in the correspondence was the sociopath's NEW boss, who likes the initiative that we have been running. The sociopath tried to finger the CIO for the delay, and when I informed the recipients that the delay was actually due to business management on our side dragging their feet, that fucked up his plan to finger the CIO. Hence the bullying response. I've got my manager to read Snakes in Suits too. He's told me he wants to keep it longer so he can read it again because the symptoms described in the book are so compelling. The ICT team leader I worked on thinks the world of my "emotional intelligence" and has basically attributed my leadership to the fact that we actually even managed to deliver at all. So much, in fact, that she asked me to apply for a position two paygrades above my current one. So I'm okay with my "emotional intelligence". The sociopath has it coming from the CIO too which gives me warm fuzzies inside.
But why am I getting all defensive with you? Rookie mistake when dealing with psychopaths, right?
They do this instinctively because they aren't seeing people as personality disorders. They study them as a whole, and the weaknesses are given to them. They do what people who know nothing of personality disorders do, they interact, listen, and engage.
All of what you said in your first paragraph sounded like excuses for why you plan to keep looking at people as disorders. None of that matters, nor is it a good excuse. Because everyone else labels, you must? The actuality of all of this is maybe you just have a deficit that makes you lack the skill to understand people and their motivations, so you label using bias to help get you through social interaction. Like I said before, and I have more "proof" now, giving labels you know nothing about to others will only create issues for you in the end.
I personally think you don't stand chance at succeeding in your adventure. You already put too much thought into it instead of just going with the flow, and you are in no position to make others suffer for your poor decisions. I agree with the Tiger in saying just move on. You can't win this way. You already fucked up too much. And IF this guy was a psychopath, you going out of your way to ruin him is only going to tickle his fancy. Seeing others work hard at retribution is a huge ego booster. It means they got to you, and they are all about being someone's inspiration. His fall will come, and it will be all from his own doing, not anything you did, or anything other pissed off people did. Stop deluding yourself into thinking you can have any form of power in this.
"All of what you said in your first paragraph sounded like excuses for why you plan to keep looking at people as disorders."
Well, not all...You seem to have glossed over this part.
"Eventually I need to get to the ASPD ideal of dealing with each person individually. For now, being able to identify group behaviours and testing reactions against them is the first step towards greater flexibility later."
"You already put too much thought into it instead of just going with the flow, and you are in no position to make others suffer for your poor decisions."
That's exactly my point. You HAVE to put thought into it at the beginning. Developing a skill requires conscious awareness of the effect exercising a particular behaviour has and continually modifying it until it becomes second nature and you can just "go with the flow." ASPD's do this naturally. It is a talent honed through environmental training on top of genetic predisposition. Others have to learn that skill over time.
"You can't win this way. You already fucked up too much. And IF this guy was a psychopath, you going out of your way to ruin him is only going to tickle his fancy. Seeing others work hard at retribution is a huge ego booster. It means they got to you, and they are all about being someone's inspiration. His fall will come, and it will be all from his own doing, not anything you did, or anything other pissed off people did. Stop deluding yourself into thinking you can have any form of power in this."
Your warnings are well noted. The good news is that I really have next to nothing to lose. He can get me fired (good luck to him), and I will have a job waiting for me with a 50% pay rise. It'll be worth it.
You aren't listening, and that is fine, you never really wanted to. Just another person trying to gain positive attention for the "evil" they plan to commence. Silly me for giving you the benefit of the doubt.
I will say this before I move on because this bores me, and you not getting it makes this exercise futile, but it's tragic that this kind of thought, becoming "ASPD" to make it in your career, didn't come until after you were "fucked" over, which, again, is why I say you are not going to succeed. These traits you want now had to have already been there to drive you in the first place, and in only trying to harp those "skills" after the fact is still going to leave you destitute. Emotional intelligence does not come from borrowing someone else's. It comes from understanding your own.
You have nothing to lose; you are right. You already lost it, "it" being your self respect, dignity, ability to create an original thought, and the courage to make moves without delusional drive and ego. Good luck with your travels.