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"Relative" views of Evil, or Hell "not existing"

 God is ultimate consciousness, we are not. At least, not yet we're not. If we did have ultimate consciousness, we would avoid stepping on ants, and why ? We'd know in detail what the ant went through. The number of atoms that makes up a grain of sand is probably a staggering number. God knows all atoms, all things, all people. What we're physically made up of, is of this universe, we are not seperated from the all, regardless of how vast the universe is. My goal is not really to change your mind in what you believe, but your details on the matter would imply that the prime creator has our same limits.

Posts: 1081
"Relative" views of Evil, or Hell "not existing"

 

 I think there is a huge difference between human evil and the kind of evil entities considered supernatural and existing outside of human mind/body.

I would guess calling you evil is like calling me crazy. Yes and no, depending what you mean, and there are as many levels or types of crazy as there are what people call evil.

Instead of using the term broadly, I'd have to focus on each context. For example, I can have an evil sense of humor, but that does not mean I act evilly toward others. Those are two different contexts.

I am guessing what people think is evil in you could be described in more specific terms, from "selfish" or "self-serving" to "sadistic" etc.

As for being "sick" there are different meanings of that also. the really sick people like Castro, the man in Cleveland Ohio, who "knew he was sick" but couldn't control his urges to rape and torture those women over a 10 year period, that is a real sickness that takes over the spirit.

Clearly you aren't sick in that way, you obviously don't show loss of control and rationality/free will that these really sick people do who are possessed on the spiritual level and cannot control how they feel, think or respond.

You might play with evil thoughts and energy, the way I play with evil humor.

Doesn't make us evil, just like using a camera doesn't make you a photographer.

Ppbbfftt, I'm the proof of that!

 

Posts: 1081
"Relative" views of Evil, or Hell "not existing"

 RE: If the Devil plays deceptive or doesn't hide being evil

It depends on the circumstance. In Andrea Yates case, the demon voices that kept pushing her to kill her children until she did, told her they were "angels" and that her babies' only chance of getting into heaven was to die while they were pure, and for her to kill them now before they got tainted. The deception here was already inherent in this logic. God's love is about forgiveness which gets us into heaven; so this whole idea of only having one chance to get in was already twisted. Regardless if the voices said they were angels or demons telling her this.

As for the Devil/demons in the patients Dr. Peck witnessed, they didn't need to lie about their form or identity. What they used as lies was taunting Dr. Peck that he was a failure, etc. Making him doubt or fear his ability in order to weaken him. 

The greatest deceit I see that Satan/selfishness plays on people is called the 'scarcity mentality' or perpetuating fear that you have to win at the other person's expense, that this group or that person is "the enemy" and you win by attacking "them." The truth is that our fear dividing us becomes the common "enemy" and pits both sides up against the other so they both lose. This is how the Devil wins most of the games being played on the planet. Project blame on the other party and you both go down in flames. Unforgiveness and fear destroys relations but gives such a sense of power, people use that as a shortcut. This selfish misperception is often disguised as religious faith that someone is doing God's will (like even Hitler and the people running the camps believed they were doing God's work, and even took breaks to sing hymnals together just like a church choir does). And politically people truly believe they are doing what is better for the public good, and demonize their "enemies."  This is the greatest deceit of all, and it is intoxicating to exert power based on fear.

Posts: 1081
"Relative" views of Evil, or Hell "not existing"

 

by Cipher

 

I autmatically lose respect for people if I find out that they believe in a god. If there was a god, he'd have created the entire universe and wouldn't have any interest in us whatsoever. Look how freakin' small we are. Do we ever care about the life of ants? Or would we even care if they suddenly weren't here anymore? (Bad point, I know. Ants are useful. I hope you get the metaphore though.)

 Hi Cipher: 1. I missed your other quote, but will look it up and reply to it
2. I noticed you said "a god" - if you mean making an idol to worship out of things, I agree this becomes self-defeating and conflicting, nothing but trouble.  That is why none of this manmade "gods" can be what God really means.

God would have to be greater than anything we can imagine, since we are finite even in our most open minded perceptions, while God would have to be infinite to have created all things.

Since we cannot grasp the full extent of whatever God must be to exist; that is why people take manifestations or angles on God to study: such as God's will, God's love, WISDOM, truth, God's laws, God as Life or Creation, God as Nature.

As you point out, we are wise to avoid getting caught up with people who make "gods" out of these things they attribute to God. You are wise to be wary, but that doesn't mean you can't get good use out of what people "mean" by God.

You seem to follow the aspect of God that is just plain "wisdom." So if that is what makes sense to you in this world, to follow natural "wisdom," that is one principle that is consistent as an equivalent to following "God".

there is no conflict there, unless you want to make one. if people make an issue because they happen to believe in "personifying" God but you don't, that's their problem with forgiveness, not yours. Only if "you can't forgive them" for using metaphors like "God" to mean universal love or truth, that's your problem.

So don't make an "idol" out of doing things your way, to the point that you judge others, and you can avoid making the same mistakes that religions do.

all these ways of seeing and saying things, whether religious political secular or scientific, are helpful to certain people, just like the ants and insects. they serve a purpose in the world even if we don't need or make use of them as others do.

Posts: 125
"Relative" views of Evil, or Hell "not existing"

 

 "God is the invisible friend for weak adults."

 

The believe in any supernatural being comes from not understanding. I think it were the Romans who believed that the sungod Helios pulled the sun across the sky every day. Sounds rediculous right? This is exactly how other current religions will sound (and already do now to a lot of people) in the future. 

"Souls" don't exist. Our brains work on chemical electricity which evolution took millions and millions of years to perfect. When we die, we're actually gone. People can't handle that shit. They need to be comforted. Need to know that some daddy figure is watching over them. They need to know that their life had purpose. 

Life has no purpose. You get born and you will live a certain amount of years. In my opinion anything goes, since in the end it doesn't even matter. So you were kind to people, did a lot of charity work and rubbed your gramma's feet every night? Doesn't matter. You'll end up rotting in the ground next to the necrophilic pedophile murderer.

The reason I automatically lose respect for believers is that it's basically the same as telling me that you're a weak fuck.

Posts: 18
"Relative" views of Evil, or Hell "not existing"

 

by Thrill Kill

 I've been called a sicko and a sick fuck numerous times. 

 Numerous times? That explains the STDs, then.

Posts: 7645
"Relative" views of Evil, or Hell "not existing"

 lol. That would certainly explain it if I had them.

Posts: 21
"Relative" views of Evil, or Hell "not existing"

I think Earth is hell and we must all keep trying to find our way out!

Posts: 1081
"Relative" views of Evil, or Hell "not existing"

Hi Cipher: As long as you keep defining God in this way, yes, your system is limited to the natural world and these other things have no meaning for you.

Where God and Soul intersect with the natural world:

A. I already listed "wisdom" "truth" "love" "good will" as some applications of "God" that have practical meaning we experience in life even if these other realms don't exist or don't matter.

It is not weak to believe in following "wisdom" so that is not contrary to faith in God. In fact, Wisdom or Sophia is one of the oldest names for God, and the references in the Bible to God as Wisdom outnumber the references to "personified God as Heavenly Father" by a ratio of 10 to 1. So Wisdom is a secular concept that is the equivalent of what God means. The Buddhists teach natural and spiritual laws in terms of "wisdom/compassion" and do not need to personify God or the universe either. 

B. in place of Soul, if you take the "intersection" of all your relations and interactions with each person or event you experience, then "that unique" set where all those "intersect" is the EQUIVALENT of what your soul/karma is.

You don't have to deify this or make it supernatural.

It's the same thing in practice.

Cipher I see no reason why you should bother trying to judge how you and others look at the world from two sets of laws. If you use natural laws then stick to those. If other people use spiritual or religious laws, let them use theirs.

That is like trying to criticize French compared with English and how meaningless the words sound, which don't mean the same thing or don't exist in the other language. Gato and Gateaux don't mean the same thing in French and Spanish. So you can't compare like that! The concepts/words must be interpreted "within" the context of the language, or they make no sense, or mean the wrong thing!

There are people/tribes under secular/natural laws; and those under Biblical/scriptural laws. Be consistent with the laws of your tribe and you'll be fine.

If you waste time judging the other tribe by YOUR laws, and they do the same judging you by THEIR laws, then you both waste your time you could be using to do more productive things. So if you believe life is limited, and there is no higher "super spiritual" reasons to do things beyond physical life, then live by that and make the most of your physical choices and relations. And don't worry about arguing over "God and Souls" IF THESE THINGS DON'T EXIST IN YOUR WORLD. 

If they have no meaning or relevance, there is nothing gained by wasting a single thought or brain cell wondering about these things. So don't! Only if it has a meaning to you, like God meaning Wisdom or Universal Truth, then focus on that aspect and leave the rest alone. That's for someone else to worry about not you.

 

 

 

Posts: 1286
"Relative" views of Evil, or Hell "not existing"

Apparently you've never heard of the placebo effect... ritual is a powerful tool to manipulate and reconfigure the mind... Postive and negative psychic (and by psychic I mean mental states of mind) mental states are real, i.e. if we tell ourselves something over and over, we begin to manifest that reality, whether good or bad... It's how mantra's, hypnosis, brain washing, behavioral therapy, etc work... this is scientifically proven. However Evil in the sence that there is some cosmic force (the devil or spirits) that drive this force is absurd. 

Evil exists only in so much as you choose for it to exist...

Hell is a mythic story that existed long before christianity... it existed as a place inside of hades for the greeks for example and is found in many other religions that were originally intended as a means to facilitate social behavioral modification through promise of retribution and reward. In essance it helped facilitate the creation of society that taught humanity to be more than the animal it is... At that time in our evolution it was needed... but now... it's like an adult believing in santaclaus, you can grow up now...

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