by Spatial MindUsually I suggest to anyone hearing me to proceed at their own risk, I just don't say it everytime.
Noted.
Yes.
If you throw enough rocks, even at random, it will even look as though it has been created by a conscious force.
But to simplify. Are you a conscious force ? There you will find the same answer.
But my pile of randomly thrown rocks may very well look exactly the same as a pile of rocks originating from a naturally cracked boulder, no?
by InquirerMy point is that you can't see the difference between a pile I've consciously built and one that nature has unconsciously built, right?
Unless you stacked rocks, that would be a different story. But a pile of rocks is a pile of rocks.
How about designing a creature. We've yet to do this from scratch. Gene splicing doesn't count cause that is borrowing. We can cut a stone in any shape, make it more pleasing to the eye, but it will still be a rock. The best of what we sculpt it into, will immatate nature's design. Things we can relate to. The unconscious does not produce forward results for the conscious and it is the conscious that shapes the stone.
No matter how much time you give the unconscious, it will not produce a uniform design. We are too brilliantly designed to be the work of unconsciousness. To the core, we are also made up of the same stuff as the rock. All things are made of the same material to the core. Atoms.
"We are too brilliantly designed to be the work of unconsciousness."
With how many random species with weird traits there are that provide unique advantages, one could conclude we're just unique in a different direction. I mean look at Tardigrades resistances, the lifespan of Lobsters, and so many other crazy traits other species have that grant them strange and unique advantages.
Sure those may pale in comparison to our understanding of intelligence, and our ability to modify the environment around ourselves, but I at times wonder how much that our advantages really matter in the grand scheme of things. Where does the ego end and true value begin when we look at ourselves compared to the rest of existance.
Edit: Even the crazy traits of the Mantis Shrimp is hillariously described on The Oatmeal.
Now you're jumping to conclusions again. Just because stacked rocks are rare and improbable (in nature) it doesn't prove that it is impossible. And also, just like before, you are now comparing something human made with something non-human made. There are lots of equally (from the universe's perspective) improbable things happening every second.
What you call 'forward results' only mean something to humans, and I find it backwards to construe a belief of a god-like design from only that. Stacked rocks are, at the end of the day, still a pile of rocks, just like before.
by Turncoat"We are too brilliantly designed to be the work of unconsciousness."
With how many random species with weird traits there are that provide unique advantages, one could conclude we're just unique in a different direction. I mean look at Tardigrades resistances, the lifespan of Lobsters, and so many other crazy traits other species have that grant them strange and unique advantages.
Sure those may pale in comparison to our understanding of intelligence, and our ability to modify the environment around ourselves, but I at times wonder how much that our advantages really matter in the grand scheme of things. Where does the ego end and true value begin when we look at ourselves compared to the rest of existance.
Edit: Even the crazy traits of the Mantis Shrimp is hillariously described on The Oatmeal.
Cool, the water bear. I've been looking for that sucker for a long time. By memory, that's it alright.
The thing about all living creatures including us, is we all have Golden proportions that make our structure. On a side note, the Golden ratio has been mentioned twice in the Bible by God himself when he requested things to be made his way. Just a thought, we can sweep that back under the rug, while we speculate how all things in nature contain the Golden ratio one way or another, and that it is also a universal law for physics.
by InquirerNow you're jumping to conclusions again. Just because stacked rocks are rare and improbable (in nature) it doesn't prove that it is impossible. And also, just like before, you are now comparing something human made with something non-human made. There are lots of equally (from the universe's perspective) improbable things happening every second.
What you call 'forward results' only mean something to humans, and I find it backwards to construe a belief of a god-like design from only that. Stacked rocks are, at the end of the day, still a pile of rocks, just like before.
Well I never said it was impossible. Though I would say it's unlikely. Conditions do apply.
I don't know about you. But if I was exploring unmarked terrain and I saw that. I would know some type of consciousness did that. More likely it was big foot as opposed to some natural occurrance.
Rocks are but a material available to us. Without consciousness, the stars and planets would have no purpose, but behold, they are of great service to us.
What I call forward results, is a matter of not coming from, or returning to nothing. Something does not come from nothing. Science knows and teaches this. We are something, the consciousness is something. Without awareness there cannot be conscious art, and the most profound conscious art imatates life, which by all means is far more complex than conscious art.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed. I'm sure you believe this. From my perspective, energy is timeless, as it came from a place that is timeless. All matter in this universe did not come from here. It could have been given or loaned from a place where time does not exist.
We can try and try again countless times, and we will not even beging to get something from nothing. There is intelligence in us, and intelligence surrounding us, we have yet to match. Our machines do not have free will, and do not make things beyond our imagination, whatever we have the machine do, it's the consciousness behind the tool.
