Regardless of innocence, this sets a dangerous precedent. Impeachment will forever be a broken system and expect every president from here on out to be impeached.
And by the way, the burden of proof is placed on the acuser and they have not brought up sufficient evidence that Trump offered a quid pro quo deal.
What do you mean by "regardless of innocence"? Sounds like you're saying impeachment shouldn't be used even if the president is guilty...
What do you think would be sufficient evidence?
Spats said:Some of those Democrats are guilty of worse, and that's coming to light very soon. It will be found that the Democrats were trying to prevent their own demise.
Im waiting for this to explode. Im very curious to find out what kind of illegal activity theyre up to. Clearly theres a high level of coordination, similar to that in Atlas Shrugged, since Nancy Pelosi is having meetings to keep everyone on the same track. Im not saying republicans are exempt from corruption either, im sure theyre guilty to some degree. Im simply more interested in the dems wrong-doing atm
Regardless of innocence, this sets a dangerous precedent. Impeachment will forever be a broken system and expect every president from here on out to be impeached.
And by the way, the burden of proof is placed on the acuser and they have not brought up sufficient evidence that Trump offered a quid pro quo deal.
What do you mean by "regardless of innocence"? Sounds like you're saying impeachment shouldn't be used even if the president is guilty...
What do you think would be sufficient evidence?
Im pointing out the context of if we ignore the "trial" and look at the political ramifications.
also, this isn't exactly a judicial trial so im not sure if they even need evidence of illegal activity. but the obvious standard is that you must be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
His political opponents did this to themselves. Trump is just pointing it out and asked for an investigation.
No Trump crimes were identified during the impeachment. This is purely an ethics argument in opinion only.
In what way exactly did they do this to themselves?
Do you think a president should be allowed to push a foreign government to specifically investigate a person of interest to him without any actual proof of wrongdoing?
Ukraine has some legal issues to look into. The suggested crimes happened on their soils. It's theirs. Maybe they will share their investigation with the US.
Do they? So far all I've seen is Trump claiming Biden is corrupt and that he wants Ukraine to investigate.
And again, in what way did his political opponents (Bidens in this case) do this to themselves? Or have you already decided to believe they're corrupt?
"Do you think a president should be allowed to push a foreign government to specifically investigate a person of interest to him without any actual proof of wrongdoing?"
No, proof would be a good thing to have before you take any action. I'm thinking there is high confidence that crimes actually occurred. We will see. I don't think its a bluff. This could also explain Biden's crazy public attack on a fat old guy that brought up the Ukraine issue. Biden was triggered hard. He's obviously under a ton of pressure.
If the impeachment articles ever get forwarded to the Senate, bet is, the Bidens have to take the stand under oath in front of the Senate. Perjury is a felony.
This is serious fucked up. lol
You think there is high confidence, huh? And that's enough for you to accept the president going after his political opponents in this way? How far would a president have to go before you thought he abused his powers? What if Trump never provides any evidence for what he has claimed? Would you agree with impeachment then?
Personally I think Trump's action would've been wrong even if it was clear Biden had done corrupt dealings in Ukraine. This isn't something Trump should be doing himself either way, it blurs the line between official US policy and his own far too much. But now it's not clear Biden has done anything wrong. In fact, it just looks like one of Trump's many trademark conspiracy theories.
"How far would a president have to go before you thought he abused his powers?"
He would have to break the law. No laws were broken. Therefore this is just academic ethics opinions.
Did you read the transcript at the beginning of the thread? There is no mention of money.
I posted proof and explained Biden's wrong doing Inq.
That is Joe Biden's quid pro quo with Ukraine, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. For more information read my other post.
What about that is wrong? Biden carried out the official policy of the US government (not to benefit himself personally) by pressuring Ukraine to fire their corrupt prosecutor general.
"Mr. Giuliani has claimed, without evidence, that Mr. Biden’s push to oust Mr. Shokin was an attempt to block scrutiny of his son’s actions. In fact, Mr. Biden was just one of many officials calling for Mr. Shokin to go. Good-government activists were protesting his actions in the streets, as were eurozone power players like Christine Lagarde, then the managing director of the International Monetary Fund, along with Ms. Nuland and Senate Republicans.
“The position regarding getting rid of Shokin was not Vice President Biden’s position; it was the position of the U.S. government, as well as the European Union and international financial institutions,” said Amos J. Hochstein, former coordinator for international energy affairs at the State Department." - Link
Something the mainstream media is not covering is Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani going after the Democrats over this.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Rudy got assassinated.
Why did Trump request Ukraine's new leader an investigation into Biden ? Rudy being his lawyer, he knows what they've done and he's gathering as much information about it as he can before the execution. Some democrats are afraid, and the most bitter of them are probably guilty as sin.
So, just like Billy, you're just accepting on faith that Trump and Giuliani has evidence for what they are claiming?
When the mainstream news tells you, you'll then know. Until then there isn't anything I can do for you.
The Dem's have really fucked this up.
1. Democratic impeachment delays because of the poor nonexistent case. The Senate will immediately clear Trump
2. FISA crimes where Democrats are going to jail, lol,
3. and Biden's corruption in Ukraine and China WTF?
You can't make this shit up. lol
AND the left leaning media is silent. LOL, so fucked up. The Trump derangement syndrome is real. People have gone crazy with hate. A hate they will commit crimes and go to jail for.
Democrats are going to jail over this FISA thing, no doubt. When people lie to the courts to get warrants, WTF. criminals to spy on US citizens. This is the shit Snowden was talking about.
See they did not think Trump was going to win. They never thought in a million years he would win. They thought it would all be covered up. Holy fuck they must be triggered. They lose again. Pathetic.
These Dem's are ciminally ignorant, they can't even get their house subpoenas correct. such bullshit HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA
Dem's should be impeached for wasting time/money and obstruction of normal government.
Trump should sue their ass for defamation.
The Bidens are going down.
I'm looking forward to the Joe Biden investigations.
This will be very a very troubling situation considering US intelligence has been proven to be corrupt. The deep state's exposure has been spectacular so far, but despite that, people will be upset no matter which way this goes.
I like how Ted Cruz does his duties even after what Trump did to him when he was running for President. The way it should be.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, the video Ted mentions in this interview, is the same one I posted in here twice.
