Sociopath Community

Turncoat said: 

Lena said:

I'm just no longer willing to do the toxic superficial friend routine.

Yet you keep going out of your way to set all sorts of boundaries that would force them to be fake. 

Realness requires tolerance from both sides, not just theirs. 

I'm not understanding what you aren't understanding, the boundary being "do not say racist things to me or about my friends" is not that difficult, I feel? If i do continue to be friends with someone that does not respect that I am forced to be fake with them, so in order to not have a superficial relationship with them it is best for both parties to simply not be friends.

Blanc and I are not friends, so her comment was strange and sounds very unhealthy that she would try to force a friendship by calling me mean over a misunderstanding?

She explained it though and now you have her context (backed up by mine as well). To push against her at this point would only serve to show that you do not believe her. 

Yes, I just explained how it was strange to me.

I was never attacking you about it

I know, I just used myself as a comparison. 

I've learned to stop bending my own boundaries for the comfort of others as I've done for years.

Instead you've gone over to the opposite side of it as if there was no gray area. It need not be so black and white. 

I'm not a fan of actual racism, but going off the cuff over every little thing serves to reduce the impact of the complaints. It's better to save them for when they're truly warranted than throw them at every little offense. 

It works like cuss words; People who cuss constantly won't be heard, but people who save it for those really dramatic moments can get shit done. 

It goes in two ways:

1.)Me: "Hey, could you not call me a spic, tell your racist jokes to me or call my friends the n-word in dms? Public if possible as well but mostly here in dms." 

Them: oh sure, my bad.

Or 

Them: LOL KYS N***ER

I'm not like saying "hey Stop Every Racist thought in your head right now or else!!!"

It would be stupid of me to want them to change their entire personality overnight or on my whim.

But if you intentionally make me uncomfortable I'm gonna make you uncomfortable too 

If they refuse to even meet halfway why would change my own stance for them?

This is why I went on about 1-on-1 accommodations of your weaknesses as it's own thing. 

Because it's my problem I wont force them to stay friends with me lol, I break it off and tell them the exact reason for doing so.

You likely tell them like it's their fault though instead of a weakness/intolerance of your own. 

I tell them "uh I'm actually not cool with the racist stuff my dude," and depending on how they respond we go from there. 

It's no surprise to me, I'd rather not spend my time with such people.

Then you are quite literally a bigot by it's definition. 

Hey man, not wanting to spend time with people that wont respect boundaries making me a bigot is fine with me.

I dont recall asking for a trigger warning or anything like it

The way you go on about race is borderlining the "safe space" notions many tout. 

It's also safe space to not call it out for their comfort.

(Insert shrug emoji)

Sure theres growth behind it. If we can get to conversation about it theres definitely growth, it's not spreading hate to address the issue. If anything not addressing the issue is worse.

You're generalizing humor as if it were hate through slippery slope rationalizations of "Normalization". 

This isn't that different from people who want to have 13 Reasons Why taken offline from it "promoting suicidal tendencies", it's bullshit. 

I'm relating what I've seen happen through joking about it paves the normalizing of it

Wait Do you think I do this not privately? I only do it publicly if they happen to say something publicly.

This counts when it's mere nitpickery. 

Welp if that's how you see it 

it's me removing myself from a situation where the behavior wont change based on the fact that saying this sort of stuff humorous to them while I find it malicious.

That's not what I saw you doing, I saw you complaining. 

I was talking in the instance about friends and dms, but I definitely have left groups when I felt that trying to push how I felt about something was inappropriate. Could you tell me about this particular situation in more detail?

Why complain about the setting and the friendship if I'm the one making myself go through with it. So I drop it.

So... you and Syst aren't friends anymore? I doubt that. 

I have gone through a bunch of things I didn't like, but if they are purely my problem then I address it in relation to myself. It's nuts to try to change how others behave over my own intolerance. 

No, we are not friends anymore.

My hope isn't to make them change but to make them respect my boundaries and calling out racist behavior isn't controlling them.

It's the aim to control them. Whether it's controlling them or not is dependent on if it's working. 

I genuinely want to know the logic behind their remark.

Yet when they explain it as a joke you mount your high horse and don't accept it. It's not a good enough answer for you, so you keep digging into them over it or, from the sounds of it, flee and abandon the friendship. 

I ask them to explain the joke, do you not ask others to explain what they mean when you don't understand?

What's wrong with SJW?

They're the modern "rebel without a cause" archetype, but worse through justification backing allowing for multiple senses of entitlement. They are looking for opportunities to flex their "progressive views" as a way to funnel their core intolerances through an "acceptable" lens. 

It's still practicing hate regardless of who you aim it at, and each group comes with their share of excuses for why it's okay. SJW is on the same playing field. 

 Ah I see, so is that what you think I'm doing?

Lena asked me not too long ago to stop using racial slurs to her in PM and I said okay because: 

a. she was being nice about it 

b. those words mean little to me so it's not a big change 

c. it's common courtesy and I get it

I can be quite accommodating for those that I consider friends. Lena wasn't being an SJW about it so I didn't get all edgy about it. I think that this accentuates the importance of tone and manner of speech. 

In the end I only use those words for shits n giggles and I don't think that this situation differs much from other instances in which you accommodate to someone else's feelings. The main issue with racial slurs is just that they're so politicised. 

Lena said: 

Turncoat said: 

my telling others to please not use racist language around me or about my friends is being racist?

When you're doing it in relation to yourself, it's you being defensive (and arguably racist). When it's done in relation to another it's racist. 

Can you explain how I'm being racist? No memes, I really don't  get it.

My calling out them out on casual racism is racist?

It's alarmist and unnecessary. It's you making conflicts where they don't have to be. It's rabble rousing an otherwise alright situation because some nitpick within it made you uncomfortable. 

Done in certain ways it's not alarmist, just say you don't get it and have them explain to you.

That's actually how you can get a conversation going about it. Am I not allowed to make them uncomfortable? Or should I just step away instead?  

That seems like a bit of a reach there. I'm not fighting anyone's battles either? Or do you think that I should only call it out when it's about people the same shade of brown as me?

Even if they're the same shade as you it's still racist against your own race to assume they cannot fight their battles for themselves. It's no different than a white knight opening a door for a "helpless" lady. 

Ive never assumed they can't... and I open doors for anyone coming towards me in or out regardless of sex or age, so do many other people.

This in itself almost sounds cartoonish for you to even bring up. 

Then call me out on it

At this point I'd only be doing it as an ironic callback. It's otherwise not a big deal beyond it's current relevancy, and frankly I'd rather you get over yourself than think the world has even more mines in it's minefield. As you judge others less for their slights you may yourself feel less judged by them for yours. 

Hey man, that's a pretty exaggerating view of things. 

What part? 

Being a person of color that has had slurs shouted at me talking back and calling out those that shout slurs or make racist jokes and telling you my experience is seen as being entitled?

Yes.

Quotes did a thing?

What? I'm just explaining your racial sense of entitlement. 



Bringing up your history is you doing just this. 

yours into other people's business and generalize the entire ordeal. There's degrees, there's no reason to be triggered over stupid shit just because of how much pain and sensitivity you carry over it. 

I'm triggered?

It's not like I'm going OMG YOU'RE SO RACIST. it's more like 'hey man that's not cool." I had this same conversation with tryp.  It's not about pain and sensitivity, its if you're willing to say these things don't be surprised if others ask you to explain yourself

I can understand it as a request in private 1-on-1, as that's asking someone to "be nice" and enable your weaknesses as a sign of friendship like many do, but in a public server that's just shitting on people for no reason. They are not every person who has said those words to you, and it's not fair to transfer all of that onto them out of some misplaced justification of "principles". 

If it makes you uncomfortable to be called out on it that's more your issue than mine.

It interrupts the flow and forces the attention to be on your subject while you throw an entitled fuss over some skin color and word choices. 

It's rude. 

I do often do 1-on-1...? Even here it wasnt my intention to lead it to racism and jokes about it, you intentionally led it that way.

Lena said:

Like I said it's not cool to make someone feel attacked in groups, that hardly likens them to change

So when you went after Syst on Discord, you weren't actually aiming for any sort of change? 

tho I do call out things like what kestrel said "brand was brave for letting a black woman suck his dick."

Literally getting snippy over a meme. 

And instead of just answering honestly he tried to drag it out with projection and jokes while answering in dms. 

I can't speak for the DMs, but at least out in the open it was him explaining that it's "dark humor", a point you did not enjoy to the point of very sloppy quoting. 

Again if you're willing to make the joke you should be open to criticism about it. It's also rude to disparage people based on gender and skin color for a laugh.

Less rude than how you respond to it imo. Getting snippy over every little thing is how you create more conflicts, not solve them. 

You used it as a platform to call him racist while not even focusing on your own contributions towards it nor your creation of additional conflicts where there were once none. "Casual Racism" as you've been calling it is not worth that level of escalation. 

Lena said: 

Turncoat said: 

Lena said:

I'm just no longer willing to do the toxic superficial friend routine.

Yet you keep going out of your way to set all sorts of boundaries that would force them to be fake. 

Realness requires tolerance from both sides, not just theirs. 

I'm not understanding what you aren't understanding, the boundary being "do not say racist things to me or about my friends" is not that difficult, I feel? If i do continue to be friends with someone that does not respect that I am forced to be fake with them, so in order to not have a superficial relationship with them it is best for both parties to simply not be friends.

You're stuck in such a black & white paradigm. 

I'd go with "don't say unduly unjust things about their character" and keep it to the specifics of that one person with individual factual corrections therein. At least in that case I'm correcting them over specifics instead of blanket statement generalizations that'd serve to weaken my argument. 

Otherwise when I see someone doing -ist behaviors, I've spent far, far too much time trying to correct it from back when I was more misguided. It's not worth it, it fixes nothing, and it shows the intolerance excused through peer-modeled self-justification and need for control present in the one doing it.

At the end of the day their shit doesn't matter, what matters is my comfort, and if I let what they do make me uncomfortable then that's on me to fix about myself, as if I aim to correct them instead that's not only imposing and controlling, but it also means nothing if I am to just go elsewhere and see it happening all over again. 

Basically, my stepping in to tell them off puts me at their level when it's justified and beneath it when it's an overreaction (such as in response to an idle joke). Time and Place matter for when it's warranted, and Context and Subtext matter to see when it's not. 

Blanc and I are not friends, so her comment was strange and sounds very unhealthy that she would try to force a friendship by calling me mean over a misunderstanding?

She explained it though and now you have her context (backed up by mine as well). To push against her at this point would only serve to show that you do not believe her. 

Yes, I just explained how it was strange to me.

So... how... did you take our relations before then? I did all sorts of snarky mockery and it looked like you got it. 

Were you just excusing me more than you might someone else? 

It goes in two ways:

1.)Me: "Hey, could you not call me a spic, tell your racist jokes to me or call my friends the n-word in dms? Public if possible as well but mostly here in dms." 

Them: oh sure, my bad.

See, I get the "in DMs", again, 1-on-1 difference. There's a lot I won't say to someone because of their individual sensitivities and feelings... but honestly that's mostly for my benefit more than theirs usually over thinking they couldn't take that from me, and I let them know that I feel that way pretty early. 

"Public if possible as well" is where you're imposing (and on top of that implying they may not have any control over it, as if it were really a matter of self-control in the first place) imo. They shouldn't have to bend to your will just because you don't like something, and you shouldn't feel like you're in any sort of "danger" (for lack of a better word) if they won't agree to your terms. 

If people could just practice some fucking tolerance we wouldn't be treading on each other so much. With tolerance we wouldn't feel invaded nor feel the need to invade another. 

Them: LOL KYS N***ER

See I wish I was that brave. 

I'm instead that guy who gets called on by people for being unable to go to that escalation. I'm too prim to let myself reach that level of audacity, and it's only in place from a reinforced sense of fear leading to weird superstitions I don't even fully agree with. 

If we want it to become "just a word", it needs to be able to be used as one. It's making it into this taboo thing that serves to give it power and relevance. I can't even quote Rap lyrics comfortably. 

I'm not like saying "hey Stop Every Racist thought in your head right now or else!!!"

Yeah, you're not, you just don't want to hear about it in a confident form. 

It would be stupid of me to want them to change their entire personality overnight or on my whim. 

But if you intentionally make me uncomfortable I'm gonna make you uncomfortable too 

That's fine, but why not target their specifics instead of make it into blanket statements? 

Surely their character has enough wrong with it for you to feel offended by what they said, and not merely by the fact that they had a racey thing to say, right?

You aren't at my throat about the siesta thing yet, and that's purely because of context. Context matters. 

If they refuse to even meet halfway why would change my own stance for them?

This is why I went on about 1-on-1 accommodations of your weaknesses as it's own thing. 

Because it's my problem I wont force them to stay friends with me lol, I break it off and tell them the exact reason for doing so.

You likely tell them like it's their fault though instead of a weakness/intolerance of your own. 

I tell them "uh I'm actually not cool with the racist stuff my dude," and depending on how they respond we go from there. 

I'd need to see a series of them to gauge. 

I can see it going that way with some of the nicer people, but not all you're addressing about this I assume are nice and your expectation likely shows in the preliminary tone. 

It's no surprise to me, I'd rather not spend my time with such people.

Then you are quite literally a bigot by it's definition. 

Hey man, not wanting to spend time with people that wont respect boundaries making me a bigot is fine with me. 

I'll keep ahold of this word then. 

I dont recall asking for a trigger warning or anything like it

The way you go on about race is borderlining the "safe space" notions many tout. 

It's also safe space to not call it out for their comfort.

There shouldn't have to be a battle over comfort in the first place, we should just be tolerating each other until it passes actual boundaries. 

Lena said: 

Sure theres growth behind it. If we can get to conversation about it theres definitely growth, it's not spreading hate to address the issue. If anything not addressing the issue is worse.

You're generalizing humor as if it were hate through slippery slope rationalizations of "Normalization". 

This isn't that different from people who want to have 13 Reasons Why taken offline from it "promoting suicidal tendencies", it's bullshit. 

I'm relating what I've seen happen through joking about it paves the normalizing of it

How would it do that for people who aren't the ones already looking for an excuse? The tendencies towards -isms is inherent. 

Why complain about the setting and the friendship if I'm the one making myself go through with it. So I drop it.

So... you and Syst aren't friends anymore? I doubt that. 

I have gone through a bunch of things I didn't like, but if they are purely my problem then I address it in relation to myself. It's nuts to try to change how others behave over my own intolerance. 

No, we are not friends anymore.

Wait for real? I didn't know that. 

So was your attacking him there a transference motivation then, or did you abandon one of your closer people over some "dark humor"? 

My hope isn't to make them change but to make them respect my boundaries and calling out racist behavior isn't controlling them.

It's the aim to control them. Whether it's controlling them or not is dependent on if it's working. 

I genuinely want to know the logic behind their remark.

Yet when they explain it as a joke you mount your high horse and don't accept it. It's not a good enough answer for you, so you keep digging into them over it or, from the sounds of it, flee and abandon the friendship. 

I ask them to explain the joke, do you not ask others to explain what they mean when you don't understand?

I'd imagine that question being largely rhetorical..?

What kind of explanation are you expecting? I'm mostly seeing this as an excuse for you to try to change them through positive reinforcement (the addition of complaining to the situation). 

What's wrong with SJW?

They're the modern "rebel without a cause" archetype, but worse through justification backing allowing for multiple senses of entitlement. They are looking for opportunities to flex their "progressive views" as a way to funnel their core intolerances through an "acceptable" lens. 

It's still practicing hate regardless of who you aim it at, and each group comes with their share of excuses for why it's okay. SJW is on the same playing field. 

 Ah I see, so is that what you think I'm doing?

Not to that degree, but it is unneeded conflict that ultimately accomplishes nothing (save for random cases of polite race jokers like Xadem apparently?). 

Turncoat said: 

Lena said: 

Can you explain how I'm being racist? No memes, I really don't  get it.

You're using your position as a woman of color to entitle yourself to calling people out for their bullshit, demonstrating racial entitlement. 

When it's done in relation to others, it's not just the aforementioned racial entitlement, but also your assuming how they're going to take it and that it's your business to step in simply because of their race. 

That's actually how you can get a conversation going about it. Am I not allowed to make them uncomfortable? Or should I just step away instead?  

I mean as long as you're recognizing yourself to be a racist bigot pretending to be "progressive", then you can do as you please. A person who is racist that's like "Hell yeah I'm racist" at least recognizes their hand in the problem, while finding justifications to keep it going just serves to feed it ignorantly. 

If you're going to sit here and say you aren't "a racist bigot pretending to be "progressive"" however, then you're being hypocritical. 

This in itself almost sounds cartoonish for you to even bring up. 

It only sounds cartoonish from you not seeing how they're similar. 

I hold open doors for everyone too, behind me, after I've gone through it already. That is how to open a door for someone without imposing all sorts of shit on them. 

Hey man, that's a pretty exaggerating view of things. 

What part? 

Seeing the world as a minefield with even more mines,

What? I'm just explaining your racial sense of entitlement. 



Bringing up your history is you doing just this. 

No I just meant that quote bubble thing did a thing, but being discriminated against in the past isn't a privilege nor did it give me special privileges back then nor does it give me any special privileges now. 

It's not like I'm going OMG YOU'RE SO RACIST. it's more like 'hey man that's not cool." I had this same conversation with tryp.  It's not about pain and sensitivity, its if you're willing to say these things don't be surprised if others ask you to explain yourself

They shouldn't have to explain themselves just because you're too sensitive to factor in context and subtext. 

Seriously, that's shitty. 

I do often do 1-on-1...? Even here it wasnt my intention to lead it to racism and jokes about it, you intentionally led it that way.

I made a comparison, you technically are the one who ran with it. 

 I stated that making racist jokes means that you can be somewhat racist because it's  casual racism. It is a factual statement is it not?

When it's done in relation to others, it's not just the aforementioned racial entitlement, but also your assuming how they're going to take it and that it's your business to step in simply because of their race. 

If that's how you wanna take, I guess that's fine. That's not what I'm thinking when I'm doing it tho

Turncoat said:

How many people that you've called on racism have actually learned something from your confrontation..? 

These are adults that were exposed to largely the same media as you, they probably know what you're going to say before you finish saying it.

Lol, I dont keep count as that would mean I have an agenda and actively trying to switch them over.

I already told you it would be stupid of me to think I could change anyone, I'm only setting boundaries and if you make me uncomfortable I'm likely to do the same to you or hop out of the equation in a public setting. In private I'm much more open to discussing it tho

I mean as long as you're recognizing yourself to be a racist bigot pretending to be "progressive", then you can do as you please. A person who is racist that's like "Hell yeah I'm racist" at least recognizes their hand in the problem, while finding justifications to keep it going just serves to feed it ignorantly. 

If you're going to sit here and say you aren't "a racist bigot pretending to be "progressive"" however, then you're being hypocritical. 

I can't  change how you see me as, and I'm not trying to so if that's how you take it then I guess according to you I'm a racist bigot 

You assume they need the help, because they are the demographic that isn't as "well off". 

Would you be chasing down Chris Rock for his racist humor, or would it be allowed to slide because of one's perception of the racial hierarchy? I sit here saying it's fine purely because it's humor, and because censorship is bad out of principle. 

I never assumed they weren't "well off" or that they "needed the help" I'm a little confused as to what you think I'm doing here lol.

I don't appreciate his humor, it isn't really my type of humor so I don't listen to it. He also isn't speaking to me directly so I'm not sure what the celebrity vs. Avg. Joe point is you're trying to make. I don't often put on something that will upset me and then complain that its upset me. 

What part? 

Seeing the world as a minefield with even more mines,

It's a metaphor. 

What? I'm just explaining your racial sense of entitlement. 

Bringing up your history is you doing just this. 

No I just meant that quote bubble thing did a thing, but being discriminated against in the past isn't a privilege nor did it give me special privileges back then nor does it give me any special privileges now. 

Actually that's precisely what it does. It grants disadvantages too, but you can't use those beyond justifying the advantages. 

I'm triggered?

Not right now, but when it comes up enough that you can no longer sit still and just watch it you put your foot down in ways I'd refer to as a triggering. 

I get triggered when someone tries to convince me my thoughts aren't my own, but me saying- hey that's enough of this or that would mean any time I spoke up about a problem or situation I would be according to you triggered.

When I use "trigger", I mean "to elicit a passionate response" instead of "the result of trolling". 

Someone could be triggered into sadness, joy, anything, it's more about if they could no longer hold themselves back. 

In which case the only way to not appear triggered to you would be to stay quiet and let what ever is happening continue even if I dont agree with it or makes me uncomfortable. 

Time and Place, Context and Subtext. 

They shouldn't have to explain themselves just because you're too sensitive to factor in context and subtext. 

Seriously, that's shitty. 

It's also pretty shitty to bash a group of people based on gender and race for a laugh. Just find better jokes my dude.

I made a comparison, you technically are the one who ran with it. 

I stated that making racist jokes means that you can be somewhat racist because it's  casual racism. It is a factual statement is it not?

"Most things" are racist, but "most things" don't serve a purpose to complain over. 

I mostly keep my complaints these days towards deconstructing the "progressively entitled". It feeds the problem and they're being hypocrites more often than not. 

 I've learned my lesson, I'll spread out replies.

Turncoat said: 

Lena said:

Like I said it's not cool to make someone feel attacked in groups, that hardly likens them to change

So when you went after Syst on Discord, you weren't actually aiming for any sort of change? 

I just asked what he meant by that.

tho I do call out things like what kestrel said "brand was brave for letting a black woman suck his dick."

Literally getting snippy over a meme. 

Like I get it's funny to you guys maybe but that's a horrible thing to imply that one would be brave for letting a black woman suck their dick. 

I mean I see it if he were to have said "man that was brave of you letting that alligator suck your dick like that!" Because alligators are dangerous, very brave. 

Instead I got the long talk about how "it's not a racist joke because I'm not racist" and "it's a meme." As if memes can't  be made to be racist in image or humor.

And instead of just answering honestly he tried to drag it out with projection and jokes while answering in dms. 

I can't speak for the DMs, but at least out in the open it was him explaining that it's "dark humor", a point you did not enjoy to the point of very sloppy quoting. 

Dark humor still covers discrimination, and like I said normalizes it and makes it that tolerance for racist remarks towards a certain group. By not saying anything against it you send the message that disparaging this certain group is fine and that you accept the view being shared. Further wouldn't that also make way for different ah, standards then of what's acceptable discrimination? 

Again if you're willing to make the joke you should be open to criticism about it. It's also rude to disparage people based on gender and skin color for a laugh.

Less rude than how you respond to it imo. Getting snippy over every little thing is how you create more conflicts, not solve them. 

You used it as a platform to call him racist while not even focusing on your own contributions towards it nor your creation of additional conflicts where there were once none. "Casual Racism" as you've been calling it is not worth that level of escalation. 

 Actually the day that happened I was arguing with cawk, Ken piped in about how I had sold him out to sugar and that I had shared his dms to her when all I did was express frustration at having been minimized to "drinking her koolaid" in vc where other people had heard this as well. 

But somehow sug calling him racist was my fault but also my thinking he was making racist jokes and therefore somewhat racist caused sug to call him racist which you  and I both know its untrue because sugs been calling him racist since S-C.

And sure it didnt have to be at that level of escalation but I simply responded to his accusation and it went on from there, it's not rude to respond to someone's accusation last I knew. 

Its literally 1:39 am and I know it's way later for you how are you even staying awake at this point.