Sociopath Community

That's not how the burden of proof works. You claimed Eminem's politics are “hate driven,” so you need to establish that claim. I don't have to provide a complete theory of what every part of his political outlook is driven by in order to point out that your evidence doesn't establish hatred as the driving force.

And I'm not saying Eminem's politics are “peace and love,” nor am I claiming he has some perfectly coherent political philosophy. I'm saying that “he hates Trump” does not logically entail “his politics are driven by hate.” There are plenty of possible reasons someone can strongly oppose a political figure without hatred being the defining basis of their politics.

Asking me what I think his politics are doesn't answer the question. If you can't distinguish “he strongly opposes Trump” from “his politics are fundamentally hate driven,” then you've established the first claim and simply asserted the second.

And whether you think Kamala or Hillary had good policies is a separate issue. Their policies don't somehow become relevant evidence for your claim about what motivates Eminem.

I did establish the claim, and I showed why.

Who wants to argue Eminem doesn't hate Trump with a passion ?

Nobody is arguing that Eminem doesn't strongly dislike Trump. That isn't the point.

You're still conflating “Eminem hates Trump” with “Eminem's politics are hate driven.” The first can be true without the second following from it. Someone can intensely dislike a politician because they believe that politician is racist, authoritarian, dishonest, or otherwise harmful. The intensity of the opposition doesn't establish that hatred is the underlying basis of their political outlook.

So when you say you “established the claim,” what you've actually established is the much narrower claim that Eminem strongly dislikes Trump. You still haven't shown why that means hatred is what drives his politics generally.

Of course his politics are hate driven. When was the last time you saw him come out and support voting for anyone ?

Never.

Guy said fuck you to half his fans. That is hate. 

Flicked off half his fans and said fuck you too. 

Over politics. 

Guy is cursing people who love and admire him and made him rich. Hate driven. Nothing to prove.  

You're still proving the same narrower point and pretending it's the broader one. Eminem can hate Trump, curse at fans who support him, and even tell political opponents to fuck off without that establishing that his politics are fundamentally “hate driven.”

You're treating any expression of hostility as proof that hostility is the underlying basis of someone's politics. That's not enough. People can strongly oppose politicians and political movements because they regard them as racist, harmful, authoritarian, or otherwise unacceptable. Rejecting people over political values isn't automatically evidence that hatred is the person's political motive.

And “he never told people who to vote for” doesn't establish anything either. Not endorsing a specific candidate doesn't imply that someone has no political principles beyond hatred.

I also doubt your “half his fans” claim is established. You haven't shown any evidence that anywhere near half of Eminem's fanbase rejected him over this. At most, you've shown that some fans objected to his politics. The loudest or most media-illiterate people reacting to him don't necessarily represent half his audience.

So yes, you've shown that Eminem expresses strong hostility toward Trump and that some fans disliked his political stance. You still haven't shown that this hostility is what fundamentally drives his politics. You're just repeating the conclusion and pointing to hostility as though the conclusion were contained in the fact of hostility itself.

Golden_Eagle said: 

You say what Eminem's politics are not, but you cannot say what they are. 

Mhm.

It's arguably the easier question. 

I'm sure I could ramble a million things about what your politics aren't, while saying what they are might stand to be corrected. 

For example you are not a Clownish Post Modernist, nor are you a Jewish Philanthropist. 

Guy said fuck you to half his fans. That is hate.

Honestly I have more respect for that sort, they aren't selling out if they cuss out the people paying them. It means they're holding out for the real fans rather than conforming to a lie or omitting enough to be subject to interpretation. 

There's way too many sellouts these days, to the point of people reinventing their entire platform to pay the bills. 

Dragoonback said: 

That's not how the burden of proof works. You claimed Eminem's politics are “hate driven,” so you need to establish that claim.

Eminem raps about adversity. He hates what ought to be hated but also presents solutions related to willpower and not being afraid. Is Struggle the same as Hate though? I'd argue Struggle is the precursor to Hope, while Hate is the precursor to Adversity. 

Right wingers who want to say shit like racism and sexism doesn't exist unless the left tries to preach equality might argue that promoting Struggle is the same as promoting Hate, much like how they responded to the Woke movement and Historically Factual Education. They want schools to stop teaching about Slavery as to stop them preaching Hate rather than how to avoid Repeating History; it's a censorship program and Eminem isn't about that he's about freedom of expression with a fast flow. Dude's a product of the late 90s, of course he's going to have a punk element to him. 

Hard to imagine a guy preaching The Struggle being a fan of The Epstein Class though. I could imagine a similar sentiment made by him over leftist oligarchs. Not even a big Eminem fan but come on, look at his focus. It's not pure hate, it's struggle, a matter of economic context lending to strife in life. For those who don't want struggle to be fixated on and would prefer to sweep it under the rug as if ignorance was the solution to equality, they will see Eminem and many others like him as a hater, especially if they're all rich and posh and shit insofar as to have never truly struggled a day in their lives. 

It's like how places like Japan claim they are not racist, yet when really scrutinized they're really saying that they don't deal with racism that often and would prefer to not think about it or be confronted with it. Positions that see 'woke' as evil are a campaign of ignorance when you look at the literal terminology of the word 'woke' in it's original context, and the very people aiming to censor it were the one to redefine the word. Right Wing Ideology figures the solution is to 'stop talking about it' as if that will somehow help the quote unquote 'natural order' return, and to avoid facing the blame of their ancestry that, beyond arguably, has led to where sociology rests today. 

I mean ffs a lot of them think poor people just 'need to work harder' or 'are stupid'. Who's the hater truly here? 

Turncoat said: 

Golden_Eagle said: 

You say what Eminem's politics are not, but you cannot say what they are. 

Mhm.

It's arguably the easier question. 

I'm sure I could ramble a million things about what your politics aren't, while saying what they are might stand to be corrected. 

For example you are not a Clownish Post Modernist, nor are you a Jewish Philanthropist. 

I don't think that's quite what I was arguing. I wasn't saying “you can't tell me exactly what Eminem's politics are, therefore Spatial's claim is false.” I was pointing out that Spatial made a positive claim about Eminem's political motivation, specifically that his politics are “hate driven,” and then treated “he hates Trump” as though that established it.

I'm not required to provide a complete description of Eminem's entire political ideology just because I reject an unsupported claim about what supposedly drives it. Those are two different things. You could list a hundred things someone's politics aren't without establishing what they are, but that isn't what I'm doing here.

The relevant question is whether the evidence Spatial gave actually supports the specific claim that hatred is the driving force behind Eminem's politics. So far, it establishes that Eminem strongly dislikes Trump and has expressed hostility toward some political opponents. That's not the same proposition.

Turncoat said: 

Dragoonback said: 

That's not how the burden of proof works. You claimed Eminem's politics are “hate driven,” so you need to establish that claim.

Eminem raps about adversity. He hates what ought to be hated but also presents solutions related to willpower and not being afraid. Is Struggle the same as Hate though? I'd argue Struggle is the precursor to Hope, while Hate is the precursor to Adversity. 

Right wingers who want to say shit like racism and sexism doesn't exist unless the left tries to preach equality might argue that promoting Struggle is the same as promoting Hate, much like how they responded to the Woke movement and Historically Factual Education. They want schools to stop teaching about Slavery as to stop them preaching Hate rather than how to avoid Repeating History; it's a censorship program and Eminem isn't about that he's about freedom of expression with a fast flow. Dude's a product of the late 90s, of course he's going to have a punk element to him. 

We don't see right wingers violating statues of founding fathers. And it was the left who were offended by Aunt Jemima and wanted the graphic removed from the bottles. Same with Uncle Ben. These ideologies also go with calling for a ban on certain subjects taught in school.

Some black people do call for the removal of black history too, as it create a victim mindset, where the left wing negro thinks white people should pay reparations for what happened in the past.

Eminem's views on Trump are typical of the brainwashing. He mentions Trump is a racist, and supports the KKK, all of which are false. Trump  put black people on wall street for free, a 2 million dollar office, at the time that was a lot of money for a spot on wall street. 

There he is receiving an award 27 years ago by Jesse Jackson ( Who by the way turned on Trump due to the bandwagon effect )

Eminem doesn't know this. Or maybe he does but finds it better to stick with what comes across as popular.

Eminem's biggest gripes with Trump is... Racism, KKK support and wanting immigrants to go. But there is a difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants. 

Illegal immigrants should be allow to stay in the country longer than welcome. They are not tax payers and do not support you Nathan. If the world could just walk into the US and live for free off the backs of the working Americans, that would divide us as a species where the world can just more to the US and the working class will pay for those who do nothing but collect free food and money without citizenship. 

 

Hard to imagine a guy preaching The Struggle being a fan of The Epstein Class though. I could imagine a similar sentiment made by him over leftist oligarchs. Not even a big Eminem fan but come on, look at his focus. It's not pure hate, it's struggle, a matter of economic context lending to strife in life. For those who don't want struggle to be fixated on and would prefer to sweep it under the rug as if ignorance was the solution to equality, they will see Eminem and many others like him as a hater, especially if they're all rich and posh and shit insofar as to have never truly struggled a day in their lives. 

His estimated net worth is 260-300 million.

When people are that rich, it really doesn't matter whos in office. For everyday people change matters. Just about anyone will walk Eminem's path intentionally to achieve that kind of financial freedom. 

It's like how places like Japan claim they are not racist, yet when really scrutinized they're really saying that they don't deal with racism that often and would prefer to not think about it or be confronted with it. Positions that see 'woke' as evil are a campaign of ignorance when you look at the literal terminology of the word 'woke' in it's original context, and the very people aiming to censor it were the one to redefine the word. Right Wing Ideology figures the solution is to 'stop talking about it' as if that will somehow help the quote unquote 'natural order' return, and to avoid facing the blame of their ancestry that, beyond arguably, has led to where sociology rests today. 

I mean ffs a lot of them think poor people just 'need to work harder' or 'are stupid'. Who's the hater truly here? 

 The people who work had say things like that. In the real world the harder you work the less you'll make. That's not to say a billionaire doesn't work hard, just not as hard as someone hauling ass every day.

Woke ideology is demanding of others. Crossing boundaries. I personally don't think you should use the ladies Room Nate. That may offend you, but it's women who don't want you in there you can take it up with them, I just agree. 

People are free to crossdress and be artistic with their sexuality all they want, but don't start marching around insisting the world addresses you based on your preference while saying you're coming for "other people's" children cause you'd like more queer people. The majority finds that perverted, and historically, we do not expose children to sexuality until they're of age.

Gender dysphoria is a disorder. Some will argue it is not, while complaining about being trapped in the wrong body. What comes with a disorder is disorderly, sure there's the argument of acceptance and inclusion but that's a fancy way for men to rob women. We're not concerned about manginas making the cut or entering public washroom for men, other way around raises safety and decency concerns.

Another thing, it's not going to normalize. Transgenders can only hook up with queer people, which in all honesty is fine. Straight people are straight and the majority is that, hence the survival of our species. A transgender will live a life of unacceptance and complaints of homophobia in terms of hookups and dating. Though I don't know why they call it a phobia, it's not fear, it's selection and everyone should be free to have preferences on what gender they sleep with.