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1 votes RE: Meaning of being female
Dove said: 

 

One's belief doesn't determine the truth, nor will what they can or cannot prove.

The term "Personal Truth" is a fantasy often used as an excuse for seeking acceptions.

That's just it though, at the end of the day we can only really trust in what we believe from not having anything better. Even what we've read in textbooks founded by other people are still saddled within the limitations of our perceptions and beliefs. Even the collective truth compiled by averaging together the results of countless people very easily could end up not following whatever this 'The Truth' even is, but rather at most show a sort of human truth that not all people may fall into. 

People don't just have all the answers, they have to be learned and inferred upon as a byproduct of experience, and every variation they have in their nature will affect their perceptions and, following it, their nurtured response. A person's experiences can also lend to people finding differing truths from one another, as we can even see through Twin Studies where they were split at birth and raised by different parents.

While it could be argued that the world conforms to only one truth, it cannot be argued that any one person, let alone a group of people, could definitively prove that they know THE truth rather than inferred conclusions. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 33530
0 votes RE: Meaning of being female
Dove said: 

Personal Truth is the way of delusion. The truth is absolute and is never a personal thing.

Like for example what is the prettiest color in the Universe? Is there an absolute metric we can use to determine the truth of that?

Clearly it's ultraviolet, it's so beautiful we can't even see it. 

It even has Ultra in the name. 

 

One's belief doesn't determine the truth, nor will what they can or cannot prove.

The term "Personal Truth" is a fantasy often used as an excuse for seeking acceptions.

Well how would you disentangle "personal truth" from "absolute truth"?

Say, I claimed that the prettiest color was blue, and you said it was green. Who is right?

You'll find that your elementary school level logic isn't going to help you there.

Hmm, as a thought exercise, could this answer be potentially found?

First would be the challenge of semantics, we'd need to define what 'pretty' is in this case to it's most barebones definition and then attempt to assign some sort of metric over it, like sociological data trends that lend to one's choice of favorite color being split from their roots to see what colors remain, which could then be compared with the symptoms those colors elicit in people through psychological color theory to see if it confirms or contrasts former research. 

We could even try to study what differences Red-Green colorblind people exhibit to see if those colors being absent from their perceptions causes any symptomatic impairments beyond the obvious, to gauge if those colors may have an emotional significance on the human psyche and, if so, how much. If the mood affect of color could be shown to be 1-to-1 with how it affects people psychologically, certain colorblindness may be helpful or harmful when it comes to their more averaged emotional state, and how they've become conditioned by the lack of it to behave. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 10/14/2022 5:02:12 PM
Posts: 4556
0 votes RE: Meaning of being female

Not even scientists can escape the problem of induction.

However, one can escape "no absolute truth" by remembering that is an absolute statement, which, if true, undermines itself paradoxically.

The presence of tautology leaves room for the co-existence of absolute truth, while (as Turncoat points out) we're functionally limited to relative / personal truth in a lot of our experience.


The best color is magenta, because it's real-yet-not?

You might find a way to get past "personal truth" in the effort to find the "prettiest color", but it would never be beyond relative truth.  It wouldn't matter how objective you tried to make it.

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
last edit on 10/14/2022 5:10:25 PM
Posts: 56
0 votes RE: Meaning of being female
Dove said: 

Personal Truth is the way of delusion. The truth is absolute and is never a personal thing.

Like for example what is the prettiest color in the Universe? Is there an absolute metric we can use to determine the truth of that?

Yes.

What's true is everyone has different tastes. If you like pink the most that would simply be the truth regardless if anyone else believes it. It doesn't become a construct that becomes true for you and false for everyone else. That's never the case.

If one is going to argue what is the prettiest colour in the universe, well, that isn't too intelligent now is it ?

 

We build rockets and send spacecraft to space based on mathematics. What's true holds the same with or without out our take. To make anything that works, true and false must be static.

You will learn one day that there is no such thing as absolute truth. Everything depends on the metric you use to determine that truth.

If that's so, then that would be an absolute truth, and you contracted yourself.

There's little room for error when building rockets, if the engineers determined their own truths, their combined efforts would be unsuccessful.

 

One's belief doesn't determine the truth, nor will what they can or cannot prove.

The term "Personal Truth" is a fantasy often used as an excuse for seeking acceptions.

Well how would you disentangle "personal truth" from "absolute truth"?

Say, I claimed that the prettiest color was blue, and you said it was green. Who is right?

You'll find that your elementary school level logic isn't going to help you there.

 In that model the truth is simply what colour we like better.

To ask who is right in this case in truth is one demanding only one can be right. It's deluded. Neither choices will intact make blue or green anymore admirable to other self collapsing wave functions ( minds ).

Your so called personal Truth can be blue is the best colour, while on the same planet people choose various colours for their automobiles.

The actual truth is, colours complement whatever we apply it to or not.

Posts: 33530
0 votes RE: Meaning of being female

However, one can escape "no absolute truth" by remembering that is an absolute statement, which, if true, undermines itself paradoxically.

That's more of a semantics problem, isn't it?

If in such a model there were no absolute truth then how would that be stated? 

The best color is magenta, because it's real-yet-not?

...actually had more time to think about it, and I think, as a spectrum answer rather than as a hard RGB answer, that colors ranging around Red are the prettiest (so orange and purple apply, but to less of an extent the less red they become). 

My reasoning behind it: 

o In nature, we are meant to recognize the color red as a survival aspect. Food, blood, poisonous markings on creatures, the color red is meant to be the most eye grabbing color. As a side-effect of that it is also taken as the color of passion. 

o In art, color theory has a split between warm and cool color, warm color being more inviting while cool colors recede. Warmth in a color tends to be noted by how much red and yellow is in it, while how cool it is by contrast is demonstrated by blues and greys. Think Van Gogh, the guy was weirdly emotionally sensitive to color and it shows even in his less popular works. 

o In advertising psychology, the color red has been appropriated for it's eye grabbing effects for advertising, When combined with yellow it's meant to elicit appetite, which in itself is interesting when you figure Red is the passion inciter while Yellow tends to make people feel more ill at ease or anxious, grabbing attention similarly to red but triggering a different reaction. Even your cheeses being dyed orange, or your chips having orange powder, is largely meant to elicit the same idea. You can see this combination of yellow and red utilized in a lot of fast food trends, usually only marketing a more peaceful color like green towards those who may respond more poorly to red (like vegetarians). Blue by contrast is considered a generally unappetizing color, as we saw when the market tried to sell green and blue ketchup. 

Why I don't go with Orange being the color however is over how Pink and Purple with red leaning is just as marketable, but rather than pushing for food it pushes for a subdued sense of drawing in the eye. While blue is comforting, it doesn't really awaken anything in the individual as it by design recedes in to the background. It's nice for chilling out, like how green is, but that isn't really what pretty is about. 


^ Even all of this is, at best, a human conclusion. We cannot say if that color would be 'pretty' to a gazelle, or a bull. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 10/14/2022 6:01:02 PM
Posts: 4556
0 votes RE: Meaning of being female

However, one can escape "no absolute truth" by remembering that is an absolute statement, which, if true, undermines itself paradoxically.

That's more of a semantics problem, isn't it?

If in such a model there were no absolute truth then how would that be stated?

Such a model is incommensurate with reality.  It remains that both are present.  Perhaps there's either the limits of our minds or that of language such that it cannot be stated, but the third option is that it isn't possible (because it's impossible -- hello tautology).

We'd begin stepping in the realms of discussing: "This statement is absolutely false."

Speaking of semantics, though:

GIYF said:
Put simply, syntax refers to grammar, while semantics refers to meaning. Syntax is the set of rules needed to ensure a sentence is grammatically correct; semantics is how one's lexicon, grammatical structure, tone, and other elements of a sentence coalesce to communicate its meaning.

One could raise the question, then, whether meaning is relative, but the structure has absolute qualities.  The problem here is in that one using reductive reasoning would just say (human) language is a construct, with agreed upon rules which are themselves relative (by the nature of agreement requiring relationship to establish them).  However, how far can we reach on pursuit of logic alone, sterilized of human-centrism (anthropomorphizing) or finitude?  (Bringing us back to the problem of induction.)  That probably lies within the realm of tautology and (mathematical) identity.

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
last edit on 10/14/2022 6:14:54 PM
Posts: 33530
0 votes RE: Meaning of being female

However, one can escape "no absolute truth" by remembering that is an absolute statement, which, if true, undermines itself paradoxically.

That's more of a semantics problem, isn't it?

If in such a model there were no absolute truth then how would that be stated?

Such a model is incommensurate with reality. 

I still see it as more of a linguistics problem, there should be a way to say "this statement is true for all cases beyond itself" without it blowing people's minds. Even just changing the word 'absolute' to something else could fix it, this is just becoming hung up on the literal meaning of words rather than the conclusion trying to be made. 

If there were a model where no absolute truth existed, there would be no way of stating that fact, almost as if it could only exist as long as the idea is unexplored ala Schrodinger's Cat. 

You could even fix this by just saying "There are no absolute truths, right now". 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 817
0 votes RE: Meaning of being female

lol damn.

Posts: 33530
0 votes RE: Meaning of being female
Dove said: 

In that model the truth is simply what colour we like better.

To ask who is right in this case in truth is one demanding only one can be right. It's deluded. Neither choices will intact make blue or green anymore admirable to other self collapsing wave functions ( minds ).


If one is going to argue what is the prettiest colour in the universe, well, that isn't too intelligent now is it ?

Depends on the field of science, it's actually a difficult question to answer but not impossible. There are entire fields of study on color that you're effectively denying with this Dunning Kruger truth. 

Color theory has shown itself to be a good resource for increased profits, especially in graphic design these days, so any understanding of color over how it affects members of said universe seems smart to me. It's like how there's profits in understanding Thumbnail Design, which itself roots from other forms of artistic study that preceded it. 

We build rockets and send spacecraft to space based on mathematics. What's true holds the same with or without out our take. To make anything that works, true and false must be static.

You will learn one day that there is no such thing as absolute truth. Everything depends on the metric you use to determine that truth.

If that's so, then that would be an absolute truth, and you contracted yourself.

There's little room for error when building rockets, if the engineers determined their own truths, their combined efforts would be unsuccessful.

But how do you know if rockets work or not, or for that matter if they are even real? While you and I can agree to both know what rockets are, does that make rockets real? How do you even know if the schematics for building rockets really work, have you built a rocket yourself? 

I know to you this sounds like a dumb question but just humor it for the sake of the thought exercise. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 10/14/2022 6:37:02 PM
Posts: 4556
0 votes RE: Meaning of being female

However, one can escape "no absolute truth" by remembering that is an absolute statement, which, if true, undermines itself paradoxically.

That's more of a semantics problem, isn't it?

If in such a model there were no absolute truth then how would that be stated?

Such a model is incommensurate with reality. 

I still see it as more of a linguistics problem, there should be a way to say "this statement is true for all cases beyond itself" without it blowing people's minds. Even just changing the word 'absolute' to something else could fix it, this is just becoming hung up on the literal meaning of words rather than the conclusion trying to be made. 

If there were a model where no absolute truth existed, there would be no way of stating that fact, almost as if it could only exist as long as the idea is unexplored ala Schrodinger's Cat. 

You could even fix this by just saying "There are no absolute truths, right now". 

I think the rest of the reply you left out addresses some of this.

The exercise suspiciously has the character of Zeno's Paradox.

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
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