Sociopath Community

I haven't been sure if I should categorize it as critical or not because it seems compulsive, but you do tend to question everything people say in some way. Maybe it's just your way of pushing a discussion along or making somebody elaborate further on their points but I could see how people might see it as hypercritical. Personally I've never tripped out too much over it when you do it to me.

Tryptamine said: 

Turncoat said:

Is challenging how one's mind works bad though?

It isn't always, but can be. Is it still good if the person shuts down?

I would have figured that said people shutting down would still remember what caused it once they've cooled off, and that past a certain extent that repetition would yield patterns even they might notice down the line. 

...I'm learning otherwise and it's really creepy. 

Yes, I would say it's more likely that the negative emotion they feel becomes bound to the sentiment. It's like telling a kid they can't do something, the mind rebels against what it's told. Maybe you haven't seen this one a lot, but I have: When someone is complaining to you about what someone else said about them, and it's kind of true, but they say "what an asshole!" and blow it off. Or, "what does he know?" The receptiveness to negative information has to make it to the ego without hitting a barrier. Some better at this than others. 

Even so I'd figure that your layman can remember what happened with some rough degree of accuracy, prone to deterioration slowly overtime like any other memory, but what we're seeing on this site are people who can outright amnesia or rewrite how the experience went over a period of minutes, or they are so unequipt for human speech that they are only picking out very specific keywords like fuel. 

Yeah true some people will pick up on things later on. This place isn't a good sample of how people are, I think.

What if it was done at a time when the person seemed more receptive?

If it's about getting people to do something, yeah, this makes sense. If it's about having people face things they don't want to hear, unless the person's capable of introspection it's never the right time. 

I've found a surprising lack of introspective thought since leaving college, and people entering their 30s seem to be becoming increasingly rigid. Even people who used to be open to all sorts of debates before don't have the same stamina anymore. 

I try to be more subtle with delivery, but like I said I see that style of communication as not wrong.

I've also noticed that about people in their 30s. It's not everyone, and I used to think it was an IQ thing. Which it probably is in part, but then I also realized that a lot of intelligent people are pretty narrow, and it makes sense if you think about Big 5 and Openness to Experience being its own dimension that is only loosely correlated to g factor. Cognitive flexibility seems like a matter of temperament, David Bowie probably had tons more than whichever kids could to differential equations when they were 6. Age makes who we are more clear.

I'd say age makes who we are reinforced through laziness over losing energy. 

It's not that people are that much more sure of themselves, it's that they don't have the patience to do what once came so easily for them. It shows the slow death that aging truly is on the mind. 

That and research shows genetics plays out more over time with personality and intelligence.

Don't really know what is normal when it comes to this.

I've found the people here to be surprisingly sensitive relatively, but I also wonder how much of it is over having to read it rather than hear it. 

I think tone and body language can be disarming, while the typed form has them typically project or presume the other person's tone and subtext. In person these talks have gone much better, and even this forum in it's earlier days seemed much more equipt for it. 

Did the people here get weaker or something overtime? We used to be able to be way more scathing than this as the norm and people got that as part of the social culture. 

It's a mix of things. The crowd of people, actual names being out in the open, more threatening behavior ever since the Cad fiasco.

Even there, no one really takes Sugar seriously anymore. 

Roasting here's become too gunshy over people feeling like it'll put the spotlight on them instead, their target has to practically be a pedophile for people to feel safe lashing out at them ala Bandwagon. 

Who here anymore is really a troll?

Tryptamine said: 

Turncoat said:

You hit a boiling point where, drunk or sober, you've spent so much time listening to them without them listening back that you would begin lashing out. Bonus points if they continued to act out while you were effectively "warning them" about getting real. You've reflected themes over a believed lack of reciprocity during those times. 

This typically happens with whoever you're dating at the time or are otherwise involved with, so maybe that has something to do with it. Past a point you wanted easier company, but also began taking them less seriously, arguably treating them like children compared to your older crushes.

It's probably worth considering here who I've done that with. I think Blanc and Delora, was it anyone else?

It's definitely more than two people you've blown up at in that style. 

I get how it can seem like I'm finally being honest or something, because if I'm angry I might want to actually hurt the person, which means hitting them where I know they're insecure.

Not even, you grit your teeth and play along with people until you can't anymore, then you're either forgetting or blaming yourself before ghosting them long enough to have them want you back. You think tons of negative things and keep them to yourself, likely over how you think they can't take it, and what comes out during those times isn't just more real over how all the notes you'd been taking on them for weeks are finally allowed to unload, but also the way you write doesn't sound so milquetoast and processed from a PSA. 

When you're trying to be a better person for other people, as a good listener and all that, it comes across as forced compared to what otherwise occurs naturally for you, and clearly after saying one too many truths you've felt like you "had to learn" how to play the game instead. You do it like you're following a template series of steps instead of just letting loose. 

There are people who fall into the politeness patterns to put on airs that they think are civilized, but when you do it it's more like you're trying to feel some semblance of control over the situation. 

I've seen you mention the taking notes thing before, which translates semantically in my head like someone really committing to memory or mind some aspects of a person for future use. 

I don't think you're twiddling your fingers with mwahahaha thoughts as you take this information in, but some part of you does make a queue over the things you're 'not supposed to say'. 

This bottling then would typically be uncorked at a later date. 

Naturally you too can see things in all the people you interact with that you could chastise them for, but that's not how being social works. 

I think you get the idea of bottling up or containing from the "unloading" part, which is probably a reflection of growing up in abusive environments.

You can be real with someone without it being chastising, but some people take even the smallest upset as if it were that extreme. Then there's those who put on airs to disguise their sensitivity as civility so that they can punish those who upset them as if they had the high ground for said aforementioned sensitivity.

I'd figure your presumption that people can't take those things being said is more likely a byproduct of that, just how my not being corrected for it for a long period of time is likely responsible for my being less withholding over it. In person at least I tend to be able to do these 'Real Talks' without people exploding quite the same way, while I get the feeling you worry over how someone might react to you over comparing it to past times you've unloaded. 

Once people do get a little honest after having been omissionary in the name of politeness people are more likely to freak out over it from not being adjusted to it. I'd say how "being social works" involves growing a tough enough skin to handle what other people might say, and that coddling them instead of challenging them isn't healthy for them, that it pushes complacency. 

Blowing up is a bad habit I've moved away from over time, into something I don't think I've done for a long while now. I'm sure it does sound pretty lucid on the other end, because my mind is very focused when it happens.

See that's the thing, when I'm saying this shit I'm not (usually) blowing up, which is probably part of why my saying these things tends to go better IRL. 

What comes out during an explosion or loss of inhibition otherwise is typically related to what is bottled normally. 

Normally these insecurities are a non-issue, everyone has them. It's just that I have damage on my mind, which isn't something to be celebrated.

I'd figure your need to act nicer than you really are are the damages from presupposing that people are too weak to handle your thoughts, and each time that you end up shocking someone over it from them not being prepared for you to act like that likely reinforces your idea that it's "Bad" even further. 

The way you act here reminds me of how people are on forums with lots of rules, which is extra weird when this place doesn't have (m)any. If people stopped pretending to be polite to the point of censor we'd get a lot more across from both the freedom to speak and the tolerance for it that'd form from it being the norm. 

No, I'm actually a nice person!

Needing to act nicer than someone really is is independent of if they are or aren't a nice person inherently. 

Nice people can go overboard with it for example. 

People around me in real life think of me as the tech guy, so I take time for others when they come to me. Setting up TVs, routers, configuring their phones, helping them buy things online, getting printers to work, all sorts of stuff a teen who grew up with the Internet can probably do.

You keep a list of the things you've done for others in your mind? 😛

I'm not getting anything out of it other than the satisfaction of helping someone out.

You seem aware of how influence works, though... 

Do I also know where people are vulnerable and could I hit them there if I really needed to? Yes, but it's not because I think poorly of them. There aren't very many people I feel genuine strong dislike for; only one comes to mind and it's someone I know in real life.

Exactly, you don't have to strongly dislike someone to talk about what's going on with them, and the tone can really set the mood. 

I also don't think I act overly polite—in fact I think several people here have genuinely hated me at some point or another.

You put on the airs you expect they expect out of people, rather than have them adjust to you. 

I get how that's good strategy, but it's as authentic as when employees in a workspace try to act on 'their best behavior'. I get why people do that at the workplace, but what value does it serve in social interaction to pretend like that? 

LawOfAttraction said: 

You do tend to question everything people say in some way.

Well yeah, but if it appears absurd I don't usually try to soften the blow. 

Maybe it's just your way of pushing a discussion along or making somebody elaborate further on their points but I could see how people might see it as hypercritical.

How is it hypocritical to ask questions? 

Turncoat said: 

Tryptamine said: 

Turncoat said: 

Tryptamine said:

One thing that I heard a long while ago that really caught my attention was like "why the fuck would you listen to the advice of friends who don't even have their own shit together."

I by contrast have seen many go with "Those who can't help themselves help others", like when someone is depressed and doesn't want that burden carried by those around them, or when someone who couldn't succeed in their field takes up teaching. Regardless of their level of success it still shows where their focus is, and within that focus will still be time. Even most of those in the field of Psychotherapy are themselves usually not neurotypical; something had to get them interested in the subject in the first place. 

When one's problems are unsolvable from otherwise above a certain threshold, the areas beneath that bar tend to be areas where they can still otherwise offer advice through experience. 

For those who immediately Ad Hom I always saw that as a cope, as with enough digging it's easy enough to construe that no one has their shit together, and if need be they will reinvent their perception of the one saying what they're hearing as to not have to take it in. 

That makes sense. I think people who lack direction in their life are probably not usually good at giving advice related to life direction. But their advice related to relationships might be fine. Each person has their own peaks and valleys of wisdom.

While I do agree that someone with weak areas is liable to have strengths elsewhere there is also something to be said about the effort put into what got them where they are. From their natural shortcomings they've likely had to adapt around what they could not otherwise fix, like a drifter knowing how to pinch pennies a bit more than someone who comes from wealth, and from witnessing others succeed they could still offer secondhand advice that may work for others that otherwise did not work for themselves. 

Sometimes the best aid people can give is parroting what helped someone else, rather than what helps themselves. People who can't fix their own issues still tend to have spent enough time fixating on that area to at least offer experience from their twist on it.

That's reasonable. I still think there's something to be said about someone who has made it in whatever domain. Not that they're the only ones who can say anything useful.

Why do you say you can't solve your own issues?

That'd be a topic of it's own, moreover the question of what does and doesn't constitute issues. I have otherwise not been able to give advice when the problems people have are similar enough to my own, and being able to see problems without seeing solutions still has merit at least as half-baked progress (by contrast to completely ignoring it anyway). 

Ironically I hadn't read this before I wrote what I did above.

Would you say your biggest issue is depression? Or perhaps more elaborately a failure to see some grander scheme beyond being around for the sake of others?

I was raised in environments where my life supported asking questions and critique from age five to twenty-three from being in the arts. It invites a certain frankness, a cutthroat speech that gets to the point of things rather than wasting time dancing around it, and when they couldn't take critique they lost points until they could. 

Then I met people outside of that sort of environment who seemed strangely comfortable never asking questions, merely affirming who they are and what they're about while simply asking to not be interrupted, whether it's because they're narcy or simple, and somehow this far along they are still unaccustomed to roadblocks as grown adults. 

I don't get it. I see it but I just don't get it. 

It's a matter of degrees with people and self-analysis. For some it is just unnecessary, while others are pretty conscious of their own drives. Why be disappointed by this?

Exactly, it's a bunch of lies people tell each other to feel more comfortable. 

I get that exposure to a person is supposed to have them codependently adapt off of what purpose you serve for them, but if someone is expressing a problem area then isn't my omission even more of a disservice? I'd prefer people tell me what I'm doing wrong even if I don't internalize it over that being the quote unquote "Better Way To Be". 

It's a matter of degrees when it comes to omissions. There must be times where you say nothing, no?

Only if I've otherwise "given up on them", meaning I'm still at least 1/5 invested. Enough of them lives in my brain, how do you ignore something like that? For me, I can't. 

I don't even know if there's a person I have no investment in, as if I don't I'm likely not noticing that. Dropping something is much more of a struggle for me than trying something new. 

No one with no investment? What do you mean by investment?

The opposite of investment in this case would be complete apathy over them, letting them be themselves to their own detriment and potentially even my own amusement. 

Some corrective itch though feels like they need to recognize the existence of their problems. Rather than be bitter that not everyone is equipt for critique however I should be appreciating those I know who otherwise aren't so weak. 

I agree with that. I also wonder if it might not be a detriment to be so involved with so many others. Spreading oneself thin and whatnot.

It's double-edged. 

On one hand, because I'd be that way with everyone there's people who won't take it as personally. They either expect that sort of tone from growing familiar enough with it to ignore it or they understand that what's being said towards them isn't specifically targeting them so much as spotlighting them for the moment. 

Then on the other hand... there's Impressionists.

You've deliberately emphasized them as another category.

Turncoat said: 

LawOfAttraction said: 

You do tend to question everything people say in some way.

Well yeah, but if it appears absurd I don't usually try to soften the blow. 

Maybe it's just your way of pushing a discussion along or making somebody elaborate further on their points but I could see how people might see it as hypercritical.

How is it hypocritical to ask questions? 

 Hypercritical not hypocritical. Like, extra critical.

LawOfAttraction said: 

Turncoat said: 

LawOfAttraction said: 

You do tend to question everything people say in some way.

Well yeah, but if it appears absurd I don't usually try to soften the blow. 

Maybe it's just your way of pushing a discussion along or making somebody elaborate further on their points but I could see how people might see it as hypercritical.

How is it hypocritical to ask questions? 

 Hypercritical not hypocritical. Like, extra critical.

Oh lol my bad. 

Turncoat said: 

Tryptamine said: 

Turncoat said:

You hit a boiling point where, drunk or sober, you've spent so much time listening to them without them listening back that you would begin lashing out. Bonus points if they continued to act out while you were effectively "warning them" about getting real. You've reflected themes over a believed lack of reciprocity during those times. 

This typically happens with whoever you're dating at the time or are otherwise involved with, so maybe that has something to do with it. Past a point you wanted easier company, but also began taking them less seriously, arguably treating them like children compared to your older crushes.

It's probably worth considering here who I've done that with. I think Blanc and Delora, was it anyone else?

It's definitely more than two people you've blown up at in that style. 

That I've spent a long time listening to them without them listening back, and then I blew up over it? No others come to mind on that. I've blown up on others over particular things before, but in the many years I've been here it doesn't seem very aberrant from normal people attacking each other in anger. Except that mine can probably cut sharp at times because of how my anger has been expressed.

I get how it can seem like I'm finally being honest or something, because if I'm angry I might want to actually hurt the person, which means hitting them where I know they're insecure.

Not even, you grit your teeth and play along with people until you can't anymore, then you're either forgetting or blaming yourself before ghosting them long enough to have them want you back. You think tons of negative things and keep them to yourself, likely over how you think they can't take it, and what comes out during those times isn't just more real over how all the notes you'd been taking on them for weeks are finally allowed to unload, but also the way you write doesn't sound so milquetoast and processed from a PSA. 

When you're trying to be a better person for other people, as a good listener and all that, it comes across as forced compared to what otherwise occurs naturally for you, and clearly after saying one too many truths you've felt like you "had to learn" how to play the game instead. You do it like you're following a template series of steps instead of just letting loose. 

There are people who fall into the politeness patterns to put on airs that they think are civilized, but when you do it it's more like you're trying to feel some semblance of control over the situation. 

I've seen you mention the taking notes thing before, which translates semantically in my head like someone really committing to memory or mind some aspects of a person for future use. 

I don't think you're twiddling your fingers with mwahahaha thoughts as you take this information in, but some part of you does make a queue over the things you're 'not supposed to say'. 

This bottling then would typically be uncorked at a later date. 

Sure, I think everyone does have things they're aware they should not say.

Naturally you too can see things in all the people you interact with that you could chastise them for, but that's not how being social works. 

I think you get the idea of bottling up or containing from the "unloading" part, which is probably a reflection of growing up in abusive environments.

You can be real with someone without it being chastising, but some people take even the smallest upset as if it were that extreme. Then there's those who put on airs to disguise their sensitivity as civility so that they can punish those who upset them as if they had the high ground for said aforementioned sensitivity.

I'd figure your presumption that people can't take those things being said is more likely a byproduct of that, just how my not being corrected for it for a long period of time is likely responsible for my being less withholding over it. In person at least I tend to be able to do these 'Real Talks' without people exploding quite the same way, while I get the feeling you worry over how someone might react to you over comparing it to past times you've unloaded. 

Once people do get a little honest after having been omissionary in the name of politeness people are more likely to freak out over it from not being adjusted to it. I'd say how "being social works" involves growing a tough enough skin to handle what other people might say, and that coddling them instead of challenging them isn't healthy for them, that it pushes complacency. 

Even beyond chastising, no one verbalizes every little thing like "you're spending your money frivolously on snacks" even in a softer form with humor like, "your Lays's most loyal customer." What I'm getting at is that lots of opportunities at criticism arise, and we decide which ones to express. Surely you don't always dish these out as they arise.

People around me in real life think of me as the tech guy, so I take time for others when they come to me. Setting up TVs, routers, configuring their phones, helping them buy things online, getting printers to work, all sorts of stuff a teen who grew up with the Internet can probably do.

You keep a list of the things you've done for others in your mind? 😛

Yes, for when it's time to collect. :)

Really though, you probably wouldn't forget setting a Roku and some phone apps up for an old man and making sure he can use them either. It's a long process.

I'm not getting anything out of it other than the satisfaction of helping someone out.

You seem aware of how influence works, though... 

One deed at a time?

I also don't think I act overly polite—in fact I think several people here have genuinely hated me at some point or another.

You put on the airs you expect they expect out of people, rather than have them adjust to you. 

How so?

Tryptamine said: 

I get how it can seem like I'm finally being honest or something, because if I'm angry I might want to actually hurt the person, which means hitting them where I know they're insecure.

Not even, you grit your teeth and play along with people until you can't anymore, then you're either forgetting or blaming yourself before ghosting them long enough to have them want you back. You think tons of negative things and keep them to yourself, likely over how you think they can't take it, and what comes out during those times isn't just more real over how all the notes you'd been taking on them for weeks are finally allowed to unload, but also the way you write doesn't sound so milquetoast and processed from a PSA. 

When you're trying to be a better person for other people, as a good listener and all that, it comes across as forced compared to what otherwise occurs naturally for you, and clearly after saying one too many truths you've felt like you "had to learn" how to play the game instead. You do it like you're following a template series of steps instead of just letting loose. 

There are people who fall into the politeness patterns to put on airs that they think are civilized, but when you do it it's more like you're trying to feel some semblance of control over the situation. 

I've seen you mention the taking notes thing before, which translates semantically in my head like someone really committing to memory or mind some aspects of a person for future use. 

I don't think you're twiddling your fingers with mwahahaha thoughts as you take this information in, but some part of you does make a queue over the things you're 'not supposed to say'. 

This bottling then would typically be uncorked at a later date. 

Sure, I think everyone does have things they're aware they should not say.

Where that line is set for each individual and why tends to say a lot about their character, though, like if someone for instance would choose to hold their tongue more around women than men. 

Frank honesty to me has more value than someone practiced in faux-civility. I understand how it has it's time and place for things like work or school, but when talking to people who are otherwise your peers why not just be known for being frank, rather than having to carry extra weight and risk shocking people when it eventually comes out? 

Naturally you too can see things in all the people you interact with that you could chastise them for, but that's not how being social works. 

I think you get the idea of bottling up or containing from the "unloading" part, which is probably a reflection of growing up in abusive environments.

You can be real with someone without it being chastising, but some people take even the smallest upset as if it were that extreme. Then there's those who put on airs to disguise their sensitivity as civility so that they can punish those who upset them as if they had the high ground for said aforementioned sensitivity.

I'd figure your presumption that people can't take those things being said is more likely a byproduct of that, just how my not being corrected for it for a long period of time is likely responsible for my being less withholding over it. In person at least I tend to be able to do these 'Real Talks' without people exploding quite the same way, while I get the feeling you worry over how someone might react to you over comparing it to past times you've unloaded. 

Once people do get a little honest after having been omissionary in the name of politeness people are more likely to freak out over it from not being adjusted to it. I'd say how "being social works" involves growing a tough enough skin to handle what other people might say, and that coddling them instead of challenging them isn't healthy for them, that it pushes complacency. 

Even beyond chastising, no one verbalizes every little thing like "you're spending your money frivolously on snacks" even in a softer form with humor like, "your Lays's most loyal customer."

There does get to be a point where repetition proves grating, but it should be able to be said at least a few times and during what moments ask for it. 

Past a point saying nothing does more harm. 

What I'm getting at is that lots of opportunities at criticism arise, and we decide which ones to express. Surely you don't always dish these out as they arise.

You saw me in person, I kinda do. 

People around me in real life think of me as the tech guy, so I take time for others when they come to me. Setting up TVs, routers, configuring their phones, helping them buy things online, getting printers to work, all sorts of stuff a teen who grew up with the Internet can probably do.

You keep a list of the things you've done for others in your mind? 😛

Yes, for when it's time to collect. :)

Really though, you probably wouldn't forget setting a Roku and some phone apps up for an old man and making sure he can use them either. It's a long process.

I wouldn't as I am also a record keeper (although mine's a defensively reciprocal one that tries to make sure I'm not 'falling behind').

That being said, I have seen other people who do nice acts for others without holding onto it. 

I'm not getting anything out of it other than the satisfaction of helping someone out.

You seem aware of how influence works, though... 

One deed at a time?

Moreso meaning you likely see the affect it has on others to do them favors, and see it more transactionally than someone otherwise more socially naïve. 

I also don't think I act overly polite—in fact I think several people here have genuinely hated me at some point or another.

You put on the airs you expect they expect out of people, rather than have them adjust to you. 

How so?

You speak differently with people who you think can take more rather than being one consistent presentation of yourself. 

Rather than winging it there's a certain level of pre-crafting to your social choices based on a desired outcome more than purely for communication itself. 

I see what you're getting at, which makes some humor in expressing that I thought about which direction I might take things for a moment. Always being frank about your inner thoughts has a charm to it, if you're doing it in the way you describe. Though either you don't express your negative thoughts as much as you think you do, or you're quite a positive person. As far as a lot of the tailoring I do goes, it's "efficient".