Sociopath Community

Life is wayyyy too short to be analyzed as seriously as TC does.

Cavalier said: 

Life is wayyyy too short to be analyzed as seriously as TC does.

 That's true. Too much non constructive criticism and not enough production. The world doesn't reward perfectionism either, though that wouldn't exactly be the case. Time is limited and as it fizzles away TC is stuck on the first page while the world carries on advancing. 

TC's criticism of others is more often founded on falsehoods. In my case he's bent on trying to smear my reputation, hence how loosely he chats my name, even in here. Nothing good will ever come of that.

This sums up those who are overly critical.

Imagine a world where everyone listened to such a person. We'd be behind on technology and various types of progress. The land of cannot, and should not, because the downside somehow means do not.

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said:

So, what is the part that actually sucks for you? The disdainful reactions? Questioning your own nature?

The repetition. 

 Being a slave to your own nature?

Pretty much. 

It's a powerful filtration system, but it leads to finding the people that really appreciate you in an honest way. 

Depending on the immediate expectations of the environment anyway, that honesty tends to be taken as less than honest to cope with one thing or another. 

And while it sucks to be compelled to do this and the feelings of alienation, creating a sort of causality loop, perhaps you can mitigate some of this by remembering where the most value of your efforts go -- where it matters more and any feeling of repetition or being who you are is better understood.

The realistic answer is to accept that only a few people will appreciate it. 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said:

So, what is the part that actually sucks for you? The disdainful reactions? Questioning your own nature?

The repetition. 

 Being a slave to your own nature?

Pretty much. 

It's a powerful filtration system, but it leads to finding the people that really appreciate you in an honest way. 

Depending on the immediate expectations of the environment anyway, that honesty tends to be taken as less than honest to cope with one thing or another. 

Huh?

And while it sucks to be compelled to do this and the feelings of alienation, creating a sort of causality loop, perhaps you can mitigate some of this by remembering where the most value of your efforts go -- where it matters more and any feeling of repetition or being who you are is better understood.

The realistic answer is to accept that only a few people will appreciate it. 

 Same difference.

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said:

So, what is the part that actually sucks for you? The disdainful reactions? Questioning your own nature?

The repetition. 

 Being a slave to your own nature?

Pretty much. 

It's a powerful filtration system, but it leads to finding the people that really appreciate you in an honest way. 

Depending on the immediate expectations of the environment anyway, that honesty tends to be taken as less than honest to cope with one thing or another. 

Huh?

For an easy example: 

Spatial Mind said:

TC's criticism of others is more often founded on falsehoods. In my case he's bent on trying to smear my reputation, hence how loosely he chats my name, even in here. Nothing good will ever come of that.

There's a lot of people where my talking just lends to: 

Part of the issue you face with trying to delve into the human condition of others is caring too much.  Too much empathy.  While it seems like a cruel thing, sometimes I wish you didn't care so much.

Buttered Toast said: 

Part of the issue you face with trying to delve into the human condition of others is caring too much.  Too much empathy.  While it seems like a cruel thing, sometimes I wish you didn't care so much.

 that's only towards men. he and a lot of others here are harshly critical and biased towards women and they coddle and baby grown men

Turncoat said: 

I have doubts that it will happen, but as a thought exercise what would you recommend to accomplish being less critical of other people? 

Faiths that practice detachment, of letting go of one's worldly tethers, seem to find value in trivializing the human experience. I've found it more natural to do the opposite, to delve into it headfirst to the point of people hating my questions, but past a point the questions feel more important than the people. 

Much like Jackie Chan's character in Forbidden Kingdom, or Iroh from Avatar, I question how anyone is supposed to let go of the human experience or why there's even value there beyond momentary comfort. 

You are basically asking how you can get rid of a potentially unwanted behavior that seems to be a very rigid part of you. This means you have to base your efforts heavily on the principles of operant conditioning. Your behavior is sustained by positive and negative reinforcement. It most likely also does not have only positive consequences. Most likely there are great costs coming with it but because of the rule of contingency they are not as accessible to you as the short term positive consequences resulting in the maintenance of a disfunctional behavior which causes you suffering mid- and longterm. You are very cognitive and 'in your head'. This is a curse and also a ressource. I would recommend utilizing it on a surface day-to-day level for about two months, then switch to some emotion-focussed technique while utilizing the cognitive work when you need it.

Based on what I know about you if I had you in therapy this is how I would do it:

1. Do behavior analysis (micro level analysis) everytime it happens, best is to pick one situation at the end of a day and write it down using SORCK schema. 

2. Reflect on costs of behavior and make them conscious (focus/explore C part of SORCK until you are able to tap into it when you are doing what you dont want to do). Reflect on what you could do differently next time and what the consequences would be. Make a strong resolve to do it differently next time.

focus on only this for 4 weeks then add this:

3. Explore the cognitions behind the actions (Rcog part of SORKC) -> It will probably lead you to your basic assumptions about youself, the world and other people (reference cognitive therapy A.T. Beck) This can be a bit difficult to do on your own, but if you read a book on cognitive therapy based on Beck or Ellis for therapists you can do it.

4. Dispute the cognitions systematically (Using ABC and cognitive disputation based on Ellis and Beck) 

for another four weeks then add emotion-focused elements:

5. I think this is where readjustment has to happen and you have to focus on the emotions behind it. This will probably be most difficult for you and I am not sure if your diagnosis would be a contraindication for that. Methods used here could be imagination based, hypnosis, etc. If you want to explore some techniques check out schema therapy. 

Focusing solely on 1-2 for some time is very important. Also it is not enough to just think it through, you have to write it down every day even if you think you know it already. Otherwise it will not be possible for you to access these reflections during day to day life when shit is happening. I give it as a homework to do every day in the evening with one situation of the day, then we discuss it the next session etc. It is very important to repeat it many times with paper and pen. 

You will probably see huge improvements after 4 weeks. 

There is no english material on SORKC. You can google translate this page: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SORKC-Modell

If you want to fill out a SORKC together you can post it here or send me your draft in pm.

I did not read rest of thread. 

Golden_Eagle said: 

Cavalier said: 

Life is wayyyy too short to be analyzed as seriously as TC does.

 That's true. Too much non constructive criticism and not enough production. The world doesn't reward perfectionism either, though that wouldn't exactly be the case. Time is limited and as it fizzles away TC is stuck on the first page while the world carries on advancing. 

TC's criticism of others is more often founded on falsehoods. In my case he's bent on trying to smear my reputation, hence how loosely he chats my name, even in here. Nothing good will ever come of that.

This sums up those who are overly critical.

Imagine a world where everyone listened to such a person. We'd be behind on technology and various types of progress. The land of cannot, and should not, because the downside somehow means do not.

 Hes not anywhere close to perfect. He's so rigid yet so bad at everything.

Turncoat said: 

Tryptamine said: 

Turncoat said:

I grew up used to people who could take it, it's jarring to see how many can't. My group of friends in school were able to take critique and my degree literally put us all through it for every class related to our major so it became normal. 

I then face others who didn't go through that and they see me as some sort of horrible person for making them ask questions. Obviously the questions make them uncomfortable but after so many it's moreover how they associate me with uncomfortable questions, but I'm like "How are you not supposed to ask them these things?".

It seems uncommon that people are willing to be so confrontational in that way,

Why though, fear? 

If their friendship was real, wouldn't it withstand critique? The real friends I've had have stuck around and offered me the same critique back , and much of it has helped me improve. Am I unique for appreciating critique when it comes from an otherwise believable place? 

If people never tell me what's wrong with me, wouldn't I be that much less likely to notice my issues? My own knowing to persue disability services back in the day was not over my own mindset, I used to think nothing was wrong with me and that it was "The World" that didn't get it, but come on, how realistic is that? 

Maybe fear sometimes; it depends. Someone who knows you well and trusts you is less likely to react negatively, but it also depends on what you're questioning. It's pretty easy to bring up something like a gambling habit. Less easy to bring up to a stubborn person how they're being a bad father by drifting in life and barely seeing or interacting with his son. That's from someone I know that I'm on acquaintance terms with. If they were a friend, I'd ease into the topic.

I think at least sober I usually give criticism to friends where I think it fits. Without trying to be overly-critical. People aren't around me for me to be a narc dad.

and I use the word confrontation because at times that's what being critical can be, if you're challenging how their mind itself works. I don't think you'd be associated with this if it was a common thing. 

It's how I question myself anyway, and it strangely remains jarring how others can't deal with what I deal with every day. 

Projection, yeah. 

You're actually an interesting example in that you have the same urge, but you'll play along with those 'too weak' to participate. 

I struggle to play along once something they've said is questionable, not even 'wtf' tier.

I don't see this as wrong.

Yet you still show restraint? 

You see the problem and have learned to not respond to it. You'd rather have what gives you comfort than what feels correct, and your mates of choice express that. If it was about them "Being Real" it'd be entirely different people, wouldn't it? 

I see what you're doing as a different style of interaction. To put things in another perspective, I don't think every opportunity for criticism merits it. It's not what people are always in the mood for, and instead of achieving clarity it can annoy someone. What one may think is poignant can be unimportant or bothersome to others. Not to say "let people be blind", but rather there are wrong settings. If it's someone I'm just meeting or someone I'm not very close to, I'm more prone to just let them express themselves than question their reasoning. Not just to avoid awkwardness, but to facilitate a more facile rapport. Not that critique is then off limits—it's just less important.

Ultimately choosing a certain way of interacting is about what you want out of the thing. I tend to seek rapport, and pointing out blind spots is a more tertiary thing. Of course there's nothing wrong with being a very critical person; that's just about getting something else out of the dialogue.

It reminds me of the YouTuber/streamer MrGirl and his dislike of not talking about the metaconversation or opaque things going on, even if people dislike it, or it creates awkwardness. The strength of that being a lot of deep and unusual discourse happens. The downside being that some people get defensive and shut down.

Majority more like. 

People aren't built to take in things outside of their realm of perspective if it's enough degrees away, and I'm not aiming to accommodate that almost at all over how pretending to be who they'd need me to be feeling like lying. 

I'd rather be known as a potentially misguided truth-seeker than an intentional liar, as if I'm wrong with my statements I don't tend to see it pre-emptively. If I say a thing, it's not shrouded, but plenty of people insist it must be some sort of gimmick or play rather than a genuine critique from their fellow man. If I am to say these things, it can't possibly be about them if you ask them. 

I think the main criticism I see levied toward you in this regard is probably best articulated by Spatial, who's expressed that your questions seem to be trying to pave a narrative that characterizes him a certain way. The example case being when you were interrogating him about his good will—one of the things specifically being generosity with money in relation to family. I think people question the intentions that manifest as questions of a certain direction, and perhaps the flexibility of the sentiments behind them.

My playing along is often more a position of suspension of judgment that extends from my view that everyone operates under their own set of rules, and theirs are often unimportant to me because they're transient parts of my life.

Until you've had enough to drink to become a truthseeker, to your own detriment. 

I'm starting to see truth as the enemy, but how does one not seek that beyond being an evil person? 

Drinking can take what would normally be a low hum of an emotion and turn it high definition for me. Like feeling fond of Sugar for a moment and then asking her to be my gf. Doesn't make a lot of sense—even knew it couldn't go well—didn't have the frontal lobe to care. I think people simultaneously overvalue alcohol as a truth serum & a deliriant. It can also kick my empathy up or down, and yeah if it's down I'm not worried much about rapport anymore.

How could truth be the enemy, other than it being able to rub the wrong way in certain circumstances?

I can possibly learn from them or try to persuade them, or reason with them if I like them, but their minds are mostly things I interact with because of circumstance, and often my goal is to keep things flowing smoothly. Less so here, but even here I don't usually prioritize hardball over amicability.

So for their own sake we should never question their behaviors to their face? 

Doesn't that seem like giving up on them? 

I think I answered this above. Would point out here that I believe I do this pretty often, it's just not always up front and at the moment in public.

It's a matter of degrees when it comes to omissions. There must be times where you say nothing, no?

I feel shitty every time it comes up, the easier answer is to just say it. 

Can you think of an example of this that would probably be striking to most?