Sociopath Community

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

You reacting like anyone being criticized.

I did it first though, and I do it chronically. 

It's literally what I'm known for to the point of little else being identifying beyond convenience, as if my critique hides my identity. 

 That's how you're seeing it right now.  It's not how I see you, but how I see you reacting rn.

You're one of the few here who are actually looking to be criticized, you're pre-biased to accept my methods much like a college art student. 

Apparently the layman can't take it and that leaves me bitter. There are points where being mean has been the goal but even my trying to be helpful is taken identically. 

 Are you pouting, basically?

Yes, it sucks and I'd find solidarity in what few appreciate the questions. 

Turncoat said: 

I have doubts that it will happen, but as a thought exercise what would you recommend to accomplish being less critical of other people? 

Faiths that practice detachment, of letting go of one's worldly tethers, seem to find value in trivializing the human experience. I've found it more natural to do the opposite, to delve into it headfirst to the point of people hating my questions, but past a point the questions feel more important than the people. 

Much like Jackie Chan's character in Forbidden Kingdom, or Iroh from Avatar, I question how anyone is supposed to let go of the human experience or why there's even value there beyond momentary comfort. 

I guess that judging other people's behavior as "right or wrong" or "good and perfect enough" is focusing more on other people to such an extent that you neglect your own self-improvement

I think that it is practical to observe other people's behavior and determine whether or not they would be good influences on you or possibly if they would either influence or cause harm to your wellbeing,  but actually spending the majority of time judging other people's lives instead of seeking after fulfillment and satisfaction in your own life seems really unhealthily codependent to me

I think that when you stop having standards and expectations of other people that you try to force on them in an attempt to control your external environment and trying to influence them to feel shame or guilt it actually makes you more pleasant to be around socially,  and it is healthier for you because in reality you can only control how you respond to situations in your external environment,  but you cannot genuinely control other people because everyone has the freewill to make their own decisions and express their own creativity and beliefs in their own unique individual ways

I am not saying that I am perfect at this,  but it is something that I am striving for because Jesus says that it is not my place to judge or condemn other people,  especially if in the process I am subconsciously attempting to make them feel shame or guilt about their decisions  because it is the holy spirit's / God's responsibility to convict of sinning

but obviously if you tell people  "hey when you punch me in the face,  or act two faced, or do not follow through on your end of an agreement,"  it might influence them to feel shame or guilt,  but it is healthy because that is not your primary intention,  your primary intention is to set a healthy boundary of not encouraging other people to engage in physically or psychologically abusive behavior towards you when in a relationship with you

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

You reacting like anyone being criticized.

I did it first though, and I do it chronically. 

It's literally what I'm known for to the point of little else being identifying beyond convenience, as if my critique hides my identity. 

 That's how you're seeing it right now.  It's not how I see you, but how I see you reacting rn.

You're one of the few here who are actually looking to be criticized, you're pre-biased to accept my methods much like a college art student. 

Apparently the layman can't take it and that leaves me bitter. There are points where being mean has been the goal but even my trying to be helpful is taken identically. 

 Are you pouting, basically?

Yes, it sucks and I'd find solidarity in what few appreciate the questions. 

 Ok, fine.  I'm sure you've prepared yourself for there being no answer or suggestion you will likely take, anyway -- considering the nature of this, right?  However, where is this coming from specifically?  Interactions and comments from people on this forum?  Or is it a case right now of "the straw that broke the camel's back" accumulating from other sources and here is "the last straw"?

Tryptamine said: 

Turncoat said:

I grew up used to people who could take it, it's jarring to see how many can't. My group of friends in school were able to take critique and my degree literally put us all through it for every class related to our major so it became normal. 

I then face others who didn't go through that and they see me as some sort of horrible person for making them ask questions. Obviously the questions make them uncomfortable but after so many it's moreover how they associate me with uncomfortable questions, but I'm like "How are you not supposed to ask them these things?".

It seems uncommon that people are willing to be so confrontational in that way,

Why though, fear? 

If their friendship was real, wouldn't it withstand critique? The real friends I've had have stuck around and offered me the same critique back , and much of it has helped me improve. Am I unique for appreciating critique when it comes from an otherwise believable place? 

If people never tell me what's wrong with me, wouldn't I be that much less likely to notice my issues? My own knowing to persue disability services back in the day was not over my own mindset, I used to think nothing was wrong with me and that it was "The World" that didn't get it, but come on, how realistic is that? 

and I use the word confrontation because at times that's what being critical can be, if you're challenging how their mind itself works. I don't think you'd be associated with this if it was a common thing. 

It's how I question myself anyway, and it strangely remains jarring how others can't deal with what I deal with every day. 

Projection, yeah. 

You're actually an interesting example in that you have the same urge, but you'll play along with those 'too weak' to participate. 

I struggle to play along once something they've said is questionable, not even 'wtf' tier.

I don't see this as wrong.

Yet you still show restraint? 

You see the problem and have learned to not respond to it. You'd rather have what gives you comfort than what feels correct, and your mates of choice express that. If it was about them "Being Real" it'd be entirely different people, wouldn't it? 

It reminds me of the YouTuber/streamer MrGirl and his dislike of not talking about the metaconversation or opaque things going on, even if people dislike it, or it creates awkwardness. The strength of that being a lot of deep and unusual discourse happens. The downside being that some people get defensive and shut down.

Majority more like. 

People aren't built to take in things outside of their realm of perspective if it's enough degrees away, and I'm not aiming to accommodate that almost at all over how pretending to be who they'd need me to be feeling like lying. 

I'd rather be known as a potentially misguided truth-seeker than an intentional liar, as if I'm wrong with my statements I don't tend to see it pre-emptively. If I say a thing, it's not shrouded, but plenty of people insist it must be some sort of gimmick or play rather than a genuine critique from their fellow man. If I am to say these things, it can't possibly be about them if you ask them. 

My playing along is often more a position of suspension of judgment that extends from my view that everyone operates under their own set of rules, and theirs are often unimportant to me because they're transient parts of my life.

Until you've had enough to drink to become a truthseeker, to your own detriment. 

I'm starting to see truth as the enemy, but how does one not seek that beyond being an evil person? 

I can possibly learn from them or try to persuade them, or reason with them if I like them, but their minds are mostly things I interact with because of circumstance, and often my goal is to keep things flowing smoothly. Less so here, but even here I don't usually prioritize hardball over amicability.

So for their own sake we should never question their behaviors to their face? 

Doesn't that seem like giving up on them? 

Exactly, it's a bunch of lies people tell each other to feel more comfortable. 

I get that exposure to a person is supposed to have them codependently adapt off of what purpose you serve for them, but if someone is expressing a problem area then isn't my omission even more of a disservice? I'd prefer people tell me what I'm doing wrong even if I don't internalize it over that being the quote unquote "Better Way To Be". 

It's a matter of degrees when it comes to omissions. There must be times where you say nothing, no?

I feel shitty every time it comes up, the easier answer is to just say it. 

Tryptamine said: 

Turncoat said:

I grew up used to people who could take it, it's jarring to see how many can't. My group of friends in school were able to take critique and my degree literally put us all through it for every class related to our major so it became normal. 

I then face others who didn't go through that and they see me as some sort of horrible person for making them ask questions. Obviously the questions make them uncomfortable but after so many it's moreover how they associate me with uncomfortable questions, but I'm like "How are you not supposed to ask them these things?".

It seems uncommon that people are willing to be so confrontational in that way, and I use the word confrontation because at times that's what being critical can be, if you're challenging how their mind itself works. I don't think you'd be associated with this if it was a common thing.

Is challenging how one's mind works bad though? 

You're actually an interesting example in that you have the same urge, but you'll play along with those 'too weak' to participate. 

I struggle to play along once something they've said is questionable, not even 'wtf' tier.

I don't see this as wrong. It reminds me of the YouTuber/streamer MrGirl and his dislike of not talking about the metaconversation or opaque things going on, even if people dislike it, or it creates awkwardness. The strength of that being a lot of deep and unusual discourse happens. The downside being that some people get defensive and shut down. 

It suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks. 

It contributes to the Cassandra Complex when things feel 'seen' yet no one cares. 

How does one accept that though? 

My playing along is often more a position of suspension of judgment that extends from my view that everyone operates under their own set of rules, and theirs are often unimportant to me because they're transient parts of my life.

I tend to see you play along until drunken frustration yields. 

You don't enjoy it either, but you find it easier to play the game. I feel as if we both have the same distaste, but that you're more accommodating for it. 

I can possibly learn from them or try to persuade them, or reason with them if I like them, but their minds are mostly things I interact with because of circumstance, and often my goal is to keep things flowing smoothly. Less so here, but even here I don't usually prioritize hardball over amicability.

I feel like we both learn the same thing but you take it more to heart; No one wants advice, they want to feel like their friends don't know how to fix it to further their inability. 

Like shiiiit dude, I can't fix my own issues or they'd be solved by now, but when it's other people it's so much easier. 

Exactly, it's a bunch of lies people tell each other to feel more comfortable. 

I get that exposure to a person is supposed to have them codependently adapt off of what purpose you serve for them, but if someone is expressing a problem area then isn't my omission even more of a disservice? I'd prefer people tell me what I'm doing wrong even if I don't internalize it over that being the quote unquote "Better Way To Be". 

It's a matter of degrees when it comes to omissions. There must be times where you say nothing, no?

Only if I've otherwise "given up on them", meaning I'm still at least 1/5 invested. Enough of them lives in my brain, how do you ignore something like that? For me, I can't. 

I don't even know if there's a person I have no investment in, as if I don't I'm likely not noticing that. Dropping something is much more of a struggle for me than trying something new. 

JesusistheKing said: 

I guess that judging other people's behavior as "right or wrong" or "good and perfect enough" is focusing more on other people to such an extent that you neglect your own self-improvement

Is it? 

I'd figure the variation between people is what invites the questions. If I were to focus purely on myself that's all I'd see, but if I were to grab from other existing sources them I'm at least relative. 

I think that it is practical to observe other people's behavior and determine whether or not they would be good influences on you or possibly if they would either influence or cause harm to your wellbeing,

See, that to me sounds like defensive appraisal; You're looking for those who agree with you already. 

I prefer finding drastically different findings to give me room to question myself. 

but actually spending the majority of time judging other people's lives instead of seeking after fulfillment and satisfaction in your own life seems really unhealthily codependent to me

Codependency is moreover needing another to feel strong, yeah? 

Then you are codependent through Jesus. 

JesusistheKing said: 

I think that when you stop having standards and expectations of other people that you try to force on them in an attempt to control your external environment and trying to influence them to feel shame or guilt it actually makes you more pleasant to be around socially, and it is healthier for you because in reality you can only control how you respond to situations in your external environment

but you cannot genuinely control other people because everyone has the freewill to make their own decisions and express their own creativity and beliefs in their own unique individual ways

They can still only grab from what's around them though, and by your Bible's standards the majority of it is Satanic in nature. 

To be worldly is to accept the devil, for he is more native to our way of thinking than God himself. If but one fruit could do this to us, imagine what other fruit God kept from us. 

I am not saying that I am perfect at this,  but it is something that I am striving for because Jesus says that it is not my place to judge or condemn other people,  especially if in the process I am subconsciously attempting to make them feel shame or guilt about their decisions  because it is the holy spirit's / God's responsibility to convict of sinning

I feel like as if telling others to not judge is harm reduction moreso than outright prevention, as the faith itself is quite judgmental. 

It's arguably one of the many contradictions present in the texts. 

but obviously if you tell people  "hey when you punch me in the face, or act two faced, or do not follow through on your end of an agreement,"  it might influence them to feel shame or guilt,  but it is healthy because that is not your primary intention,  your primary intention is to set a healthy boundary of not encouraging other people to engage in physically or psychologically abusive behavior towards you when in a relationship with you

At the end of the day, the only person we're in charge of is ourselves. 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

You reacting like anyone being criticized.

I did it first though, and I do it chronically. 

It's literally what I'm known for to the point of little else being identifying beyond convenience, as if my critique hides my identity. 

 That's how you're seeing it right now.  It's not how I see you, but how I see you reacting rn.

You're one of the few here who are actually looking to be criticized, you're pre-biased to accept my methods much like a college art student. 

Apparently the layman can't take it and that leaves me bitter. There are points where being mean has been the goal but even my trying to be helpful is taken identically. 

 Are you pouting, basically?

Yes, it sucks and I'd find solidarity in what few appreciate the questions. 

 Ok, fine.  I'm sure you've prepared yourself for there being no answer or suggestion you will likely take, anyway

I have, but in the past jarring enough answers have made for change. 

Asking is worth the effort even if you do not believe in yourself. 

However, where is this coming from specifically? 

Sheer repetition, I've gone here other times prior too. 

After such a point, how can I see myself as 'right' when enough say it's wrong, in spite of their own views looking nonsensical? 

If I can just call them crazy and ignore them, how would I be any better than Spatial Mind? 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

 Ok, fine.  I'm sure you've prepared yourself for there being no answer or suggestion you will likely take, anyway

I have, but in the past jarring enough answers have made for change. 

Asking is worth the effort even if you do not believe in yourself. 

You must also realize how meta you're being.

However, where is this coming from specifically? 

Sheer repetition, I've gone here other times prior too. 

After such a point, how can I see myself as 'right' when enough say it's wrong, in spite of their own views looking nonsensical? 

If I can just call them crazy and ignore them, how would I be any better than Spatial Mind? 

There's something tangled up when you say people are responsible for themselves and also how you get invested in people, the human experience, etc.  Would your activity be classified as the "unsolicited" sort?  (I'm sure there will be all sorts of opinion on that, but what's yours?)

In my previous line of work we'd nitpick everything and critique all works, this approach is the reason why we see both great and shitty CG visuals.

Even the finest CG put out, we'd critique it. It's just a way of making things better.

Those who couldn't handle being critiqued would fizzle away often with pride and resentment, while those who accepted criticism gracefully went on to produce outstanding visuals.

However.

Criticism isn't always a good thing. Sometimes it comes from a place of resentment.

One time in college I had a character animation being critiqued by 3 instructors. One of them was obnoxious to the point where she started complaining how the character's tail is too long. The other 2 instructors, myself, and I other observer were all like "wtf ?"

That instructor was a 2D animator that worked for Disney, but her scenes never made the final cut. She carried her bitterness on her sleeve which brings me to my point.

If you think all criticism is constructive, you're mistsken.

Not just anyone can lead and produce desirable results.

I worked in one studio where the boss was a complete ass, and insisted things be done his way on a technical level, even though he never knew how to use the software. His criticism was so bad, with tools that can be used to make anything, his direction made it impossible. I ended up having to abandon ship for my own sanity and his project never surfaced.