Sociopath Community

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Anything special was made up in your head.

See this is where you lose me. 

I don’t know how explicit you need me to be.  On the one hand, this point is made in this way, in this tone, more in response to the “cope” aspect for the individual.  (It isn’t the entirety of my own personal belief.)

Oh okay, so it's meant to be wrong? 

This is opinionated wording.  Remember my request for the OP to answer my questions in order to give recommendations?  This is tailored based on their (arguably a lack of a) response.  They asked for copes.  The tone may have been negative-seeming, but some disentanglement should be made to consider.

So the advice then is not something you'd genuinely tell someone to follow? 

Realizing much of what makes someone special to you is what you feel and think about them isn’t really devalued as a result.  If anything, regaining perspective here gets you in touch with your own feelings, learn what you really want and what you may need to change to find it.

I feel like this explanation is attempting to devalue the experience that led to it in the first place. It's through what we've experienced with other people that gives us new tangent points for the next stages. 

Then again I tend to get lost in other people. The only room I see for 'in my own head'-isms is over expectancy of patterns, otherwise it's moreover what I witness through the other's eyes. 

 It may feel that way, but that’s probably as you go on to say: your perspective.  As I said, and in context to a breakup, you should also be self-examining and it gets muddled with projection when not taken into account.

I just feel like saying it was "made up in your own head" is presumptive over the expectation that the now-single person was doing tons of projection while writing future narratives in their heads without the others' input. I feel like this could only happen from the stronger half of more overt power dynamics, seeing as the 'secondary' is already stuck studying the 'primary' to try to understand the situation. 

Even if the two split up, that doesn't suddenly mean things the two of you discussed together for example was all in your own head. The ability to dismiss it as such is way too Solipsist. It by design is a cope to ignore the other person's impacts almost entirely, rather than growing from them, which seems kind of selfish and overtly prone to self-direction. 

Obviously if you feel like you need to do something as a result of those feelings it can be good to analyze what's going on there, but acting like every idea you had over another came from your own head applies relatively based on how simplistic their projection potential is. Ignoring the other person to direct it all inwards towards yourself will just leave you open to the same pains later on. 

What gets me most is that I imagine her to tell her friends that I have weaknesses etc and portrays me as worthless. And that she devalues me and think how could I even have thought he is good etc. that she ridicules me with her friends. somehow this is the worst for me after a breakup. it is always a feeling of shame. 

Turncoat said: 

user33313 said: 

throwawayjose said: 

when you feel like shit. what are good copes? only positive things and in b4 u r a piece of shit and deserved this

 There are no breakups, only cessations of mutually beneficial agreements.

Isn't that the same thing? That's like saying "There is no sandwich, just bread and condiments."

There is no spoon.

Friedrich said: 

What gets me most is that I imagine her to tell her friends that I have weaknesses etc and portrays me as worthless. And that she devalues me and think how could I even have thought he is good etc. that she ridicules me with her friends. somehow this is the worst for me after a breakup. it is always a feeling of shame. 

After trying to recall my past relationships.. I never felt like anything after a break-up. It's intriguing to me how... much you people care. Are these feelings useful to you? Is it because you had a connection that you feel them shitting on that connection that feels bad..? After all my break ups, it was my significant other who was crying.. and I felt nothing. The week or two after, I find someone else. I never felt any connection with my partners. I'm so lonely, even in relationships.. It's really interesting to me how much effort you people put into trying to soothe yourself over your broken connections. It makes me.. jealous.

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Anything special was made up in your head.

See this is where you lose me. 

I don’t know how explicit you need me to be.  On the one hand, this point is made in this way, in this tone, more in response to the “cope” aspect for the individual.  (It isn’t the entirety of my own personal belief.)

Oh okay, so it's meant to be wrong? 

This is opinionated wording.  Remember my request for the OP to answer my questions in order to give recommendations?  This is tailored based on their (arguably a lack of a) response.  They asked for copes.  The tone may have been negative-seeming, but some disentanglement should be made to consider.

So the advice then is not something you'd genuinely tell someone to follow? 

Realizing much of what makes someone special to you is what you feel and think about them isn’t really devalued as a result.  If anything, regaining perspective here gets you in touch with your own feelings, learn what you really want and what you may need to change to find it.

I feel like this explanation is attempting to devalue the experience that led to it in the first place. It's through what we've experienced with other people that gives us new tangent points for the next stages. 

Then again I tend to get lost in other people. The only room I see for 'in my own head'-isms is over expectancy of patterns, otherwise it's moreover what I witness through the other's eyes. 

 It may feel that way, but that’s probably as you go on to say: your perspective.  As I said, and in context to a breakup, you should also be self-examining and it gets muddled with projection when not taken into account.

I just feel like saying it was "made up in your own head" is presumptive over the expectation that the now-single person was doing tons of projection while writing future narratives in their heads without the others' input. I feel like this could only happen from the stronger half of more overt power dynamics, seeing as the 'secondary' is already stuck studying the 'primary' to try to understand the situation. 

Even if the two split up, that doesn't suddenly mean things the two of you discussed together for example was all in your own head. The ability to dismiss it as such is way too Solipsist. It by design is a cope to ignore the other person's impacts almost entirely, rather than growing from them, which seems kind of selfish and overtly prone to self-direction. 

Obviously if you feel like you need to do something as a result of those feelings it can be good to analyze what's going on there, but acting like every idea you had over another came from your own head applies relatively based on how simplistic their projection potential is. Ignoring the other person to direct it all inwards towards yourself will just leave you open to the same pains later on. 

This isn't what I'm saying at all.  This isn't dismissing it, ignoring the other person, devaluing or invalidating, etc.  I've already said it's to bring attention to one's involvement in their predicament.  Person A made Person B feel X.  (See how the structure of that sentence belies the thinking people have in regard to emotions and feelings? -- "made them feel")  Why?  What about Person B makes Person A feel that way?  It's dismissive to not be aware of this causative structure.  There is simply no means for effective change without understanding: (a) what you feel and why you feel it, (b) that these feelings are yours and can be changed with your attention.  The way many people tend to cope is through denial or self-abuse or retaliation.  There is no rational reason to do this, if you can see reason is at your disposal.

Buttered Toast said:

Person A made Person B feel X. (See how the structure of that sentence belies the thinking people have in regard to emotions and feelings? -- "made them feel") Why? What about Person B makes Person A feel that way? It's dismissive to not be aware of this causative structure.

There is simply no means for effective change without understanding: (a) what you feel and why you feel it, (b) that these feelings are yours and can be changed with your attention. The way many people tend to cope is through denial or self-abuse or retaliation. There is no rational reason to do this, if you can see reason is at your disposal.

This sounds like feelings nazi-ing, like you're trying to tell yourself how to feel through 'your attention'. 

Why not just let yourself feel it to get it out of your system? 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said:

Person A made Person B feel X. (See how the structure of that sentence belies the thinking people have in regard to emotions and feelings? -- "made them feel") Why? What about Person B makes Person A feel that way? It's dismissive to not be aware of this causative structure.

Are you trying to say people don't make others feel things, that you made yourself feel it through them? 

There is simply no means for effective change without understanding: (a) what you feel and why you feel it, (b) that these feelings are yours and can be changed with your attention. The way many people tend to cope is through denial or self-abuse or retaliation. There is no rational reason to do this, if you can see reason is at your disposal.

This sounds like feelings nazi-ing, like you're trying to tell yourself how to feel through 'your attention'. 

Why not just let yourself feel it to get it out of your system? 

There's nothing about "telling yourself" how you should or ought to feel.  This isn't some sort of self-censorship, at all.  It's seeing how something makes you feel, which tells you about yourself. Only in this way, if the feelings you have are something that trouble you or vex you, can you even begin to accept or change your perspective. Go ahead and feel your feelings. There's nothing about anything I've said that says otherwise.

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said:

Person A made Person B feel X. (See how the structure of that sentence belies the thinking people have in regard to emotions and feelings? -- "made them feel") Why? What about Person B makes Person A feel that way? It's dismissive to not be aware of this causative structure.

Are you trying to say people don't make others feel things, that you made yourself feel it through them? 

No.  It's more a note on how the way in which this is usually expressed, it already seemingly takes for granted you have no way of feeling different or attempting to.  It is true that people make feelings within us (or even fail to, but that also reveals something), in the causative sense.  What isn't true is the implication there's no way to do anything about it.

There is simply no means for effective change without understanding: (a) what you feel and why you feel it, (b) that these feelings are yours and can be changed with your attention. The way many people tend to cope is through denial or self-abuse or retaliation. There is no rational reason to do this, if you can see reason is at your disposal.

This sounds like feelings nazi-ing, like you're trying to tell yourself how to feel through 'your attention'. 

Why not just let yourself feel it to get it out of your system? 

There's nothing about "telling yourself" how you should or ought to feel.  This isn't some sort of self-censorship, at all.  It's seeing how something makes you feel, which tells you about yourself. Only in this way, if the feelings you have are something that trouble you or vex you, can you even begin to accept or change your perspective. Go ahead and feel your feelings. There's nothing about anything I've said that says otherwise.

The use of the word 'reason' made it sound as if reason was above feeling, especially with statements like 'that these feelings are yours and can be changed with your attention'. It makes it sound like it's meant to be an experience that's held under 'control'. 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said:

Person A made Person B feel X. (See how the structure of that sentence belies the thinking people have in regard to emotions and feelings? -- "made them feel") Why? What about Person B makes Person A feel that way? It's dismissive to not be aware of this causative structure.

Are you trying to say people don't make others feel things, that you made yourself feel it through them? 

No.  It's more a note on how the way in which this is usually expressed, it already seemingly takes for granted you have no way of feeling different or attempting to.  It is true that people make feelings within us (or even fail to, but that also reveals something), in the causative sense.  What isn't true is the implication there's no way to do anything about it.

Where's the implication that nothing could be done about it from the above statement? 

There is simply no means for effective change without understanding: (a) what you feel and why you feel it, (b) that these feelings are yours and can be changed with your attention. The way many people tend to cope is through denial or self-abuse or retaliation. There is no rational reason to do this, if you can see reason is at your disposal.

This sounds like feelings nazi-ing, like you're trying to tell yourself how to feel through 'your attention'. 

Why not just let yourself feel it to get it out of your system? 

There's nothing about "telling yourself" how you should or ought to feel.  This isn't some sort of self-censorship, at all.  It's seeing how something makes you feel, which tells you about yourself. Only in this way, if the feelings you have are something that trouble you or vex you, can you even begin to accept or change your perspective. Go ahead and feel your feelings. There's nothing about anything I've said that says otherwise.

The use of the word 'reason' made it sound as if reason was above feeling, especially with statements like 'that these feelings are yours and can be changed with your attention'. It makes it sound like it's meant to be an experience that's held under 'control'. 

 No, not like chaining some wild beast.  Perhaps domestication to a more productive or at least a more peaceable co-existence.  These aren't the best analogies.

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

Buttered Toast said:

Person A made Person B feel X. (See how the structure of that sentence belies the thinking people have in regard to emotions and feelings? -- "made them feel") Why? What about Person B makes Person A feel that way? It's dismissive to not be aware of this causative structure.

Are you trying to say people don't make others feel things, that you made yourself feel it through them? 

No.  It's more a note on how the way in which this is usually expressed, it already seemingly takes for granted you have no way of feeling different or attempting to.  It is true that people make feelings within us (or even fail to, but that also reveals something), in the causative sense.  What isn't true is the implication there's no way to do anything about it.

Where's the implication that nothing could be done about it from the above statement? 

I'm not sure which statement in particular you mean.