Sociopath Community

Are you getting anything out of it or are you just passing the time? 

Most of what I'm getting has nothing to do with the intent of the activities. Being here has put some distance between me and substance use as well as a state of dysphoria. It also has me socializing with some people a lot different than I'm used to, and there are some perks that come with getting to know how those people work. Listening to Christian music at a chapel or having a group on vulnerability doesn't do much for me, though.

I wouldn't see that quite working for me either, mostly over the Christian stuff but also the insistence that follows some community groups. I find their model when it comes to things like AA to not be the answers for everyone, as they usually focus too much on trying to detach from yourself to clean up for some sort of group-based purpose, which isn't what fixes everyone.

Effectively the person in there has to actually believe it's going to work, which is why they usually try to shortcut that with empathy and adrenaline and go about 1/8th the way to cult rhetoric. If it was with a group that they managed to escape it, it's just as likely to be through other people and/or when left by themselves that they'll fall back into it, like they went away to Summer Camp and now they're back in the life they knew. 

Do you see yourself going back to substances once you're out though, or did this distancing from it let it's grip loosen? 

Turncoat said:

I wouldn't see that quite working for me either, mostly over the Christian stuff but also the insistence that follows some community groups. I find their model when it comes to things like AA to not be the answers for everyone, as they usually focus too much on trying to detach from yourself to clean up for some sort of group-based purpose, which isn't what fixes everyone.

Intensive outpatient therapy and spirituality are the main focuses here (I didn't know that coming in). There is a bit of overlap with AA, but that's mostly left to two hour groups a week and AA meetings for those that attend. Most people here are repeat felons who are finding God and trying to put their lives together. They get something out of learning prosocial behavior, and faith in a higher power & an environment of edification really seem to make a difference for many.

Turncoat said:

Effectively the person in there has to actually believe it's going to work, which is why they usually try to shortcut that with empathy and adrenaline and go about 1/8th the way to cult rhetoric. If it was with a group that they managed to escape it, it's just as likely to be through other people and/or when left by themselves that they'll fall back into it, like they went away to Summer Camp and now they're back in the life they knew.

To my knowledge, AA is considered an effective treatment when carried out correctly. This means having a good sponsor, doing the 12 steps, being part of the community and continuing to show up to meetings. It's designed to integrate into your social life...and not surprisingly when you surround yourself with sober people, make a point to be around them, and continue to follow the groupthink, it ends up effective at what it's designed to do. Swap out substances with something else and the formula still works (sex addicts anonymous, Scientology, etc...).

Turncoat said:

Do you see yourself going back to substances once you're out though, or did this distancing from it let it's grip loosen?

I'm more wary of ending up in situations where I can lose control or forward movement. There's an appreciation for being organized that wasn't present before. As of now, I do still want to drink. It's more a question of how much I can control it, and how an environment and life circumstances can affect it.

Tryptamine said: 

Turncoat said:

I wouldn't see that quite working for me either, mostly over the Christian stuff but also the insistence that follows some community groups. I find their model when it comes to things like AA to not be the answers for everyone, as they usually focus too much on trying to detach from yourself to clean up for some sort of group-based purpose, which isn't what fixes everyone.

Intensive outpatient therapy and spirituality are the main focuses here (I didn't know that coming in). There is a bit of overlap with AA, but that's mostly left to two hour groups a week and AA meetings for those that attend. Most people here are repeat felons who are finding God and trying to put their lives together. They get something out of learning prosocial behavior, and faith in a higher power & an environment of edification really seem to make a difference for many.

Turncoat said:

Effectively the person in there has to actually believe it's going to work, which is why they usually try to shortcut that with empathy and adrenaline and go about 1/8th the way to cult rhetoric. If it was with a group that they managed to escape it, it's just as likely to be through other people and/or when left by themselves that they'll fall back into it, like they went away to Summer Camp and now they're back in the life they knew.

To my knowledge, AA is considered an effective treatment when carried out correctly. This means having a good sponsor, doing the 12 steps, being part of the community and continuing to show up to meetings.

It demands that their patients surrender to the program and God, look at the 12 steps: 



It's about letting go of their own self-importance by throwing it at something 'bigger than themselves', which I find dangerous for a number of reasons. 

Rather than teaching personal willpower and how to moderate it pushes a feast or famine model on the basis of giving up, making it easy to give up on giving up. It also makes them act more like bitch boys until their faith is no longer enough, then it's like when college-aged Christians leave the closet and go whole hog into sin. 

If they are taught that surrender is strength and that they are powerless, the only question becomes over if God or Alcohol is their Messiah of the hour. 

It's designed to integrate into your social life...and not surprisingly when you surround yourself with sober people, make a point to be around them, and continue to follow the groupthink, it ends up effective at what it's designed to do. Swap out substances with something else and the formula still works (sex addicts anonymous, Scientology, etc...).

If you call that working and not integrating, then yeah we could even call Synanon 'healthy'. 

Turncoat said:

Do you see yourself going back to substances once you're out though, or did this distancing from it let it's grip loosen?

I'm more wary of ending up in situations where I can lose control or forward movement. There's an appreciation for being organized that wasn't present before. As of now, I do still want to drink. It's more a question of how much I can control it, and how an environment and life circumstances can affect it.

You aren't worried about the slippery slope of perception and an adaptive tolerance? 

Turncoat said:

It demands that their patients surrender to the program and God, look at the 12 steps:

This part is flexible. God is conceived of as "a power greater than ourselves" in AA, there's a section in the Alcoholics Anonymous book addressed for agnostics that covers this. For some, this is the power of the group setting, or a spiritual connection with the universe, etc.

Turncoat said:

Rather than teaching personal willpower and how to moderate it pushes a feast or famine model on the basis of giving up, making it easy to give up on giving up. It also makes them act more like bitch boys until their faith is no longer enough, then it's like when college-aged Christians leave the closet and go whole hog into sin.

Willpower can be a reasonable safeguard certain people. There are those where I am that are in their 50s and 60s, and they've tried moderation, usually many times since their 20s. Any drug use for them has led back to their drug of choice, and then often to criminal behavior, prison, and a total collapse in the living situation. Many of these people will say that they have no self control once they make the first step, and that drug use just isn't worth what comes with it. Addiction is something to be avoided at all costs for these people. There are lots of stories here of people that were here or other local treatment centers that end up relapsing and dying.

Those who have had severe addiction but may not necessarily be confined to that with use (I include myself in that group) should be able to live normally with willpower. It can be risky, especially for people such as myself that sees the end goal as the heavily intoxicated experience as opposed to a few drinks or one pill. It's a game of dose frequency, spacing, and gauging lifestyle permeation that requires a lot of care and investment in other obligations.

Turncoat said:

If you call that working and not integrating, then yeah we could even call Synanon 'healthy'.

AA doesn't seem very sinister to me. One might miss out on a bit of fun if they're one of the people who could develop adequate discipline in a responsible way, or if they fall victim to a "13th stepper."

Turncoat said:

You aren't worried about the slippery slope of perception and an adaptive tolerance?

I would be a fool to not worry about that. I still haven't completely thought out how I want to conduct all of this yet.

Sucks to be you.

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