They really should have just written Sally out of the story.
It was written at a time when Disney movies had to have a love interest side plot where the main character ends up in a happy relationship. And besides, I like Sally.
They really should have just written Sally out of the story.
It was written at a time when Disney movies had to have a love interest side plot where the main character ends up in a happy relationship. And besides, I like Sally.
She has one good scene where she's trying to poison her maker, otherwise she's garbage and her + Jack's relationship has no chemistry. Even her solo is off key.
All she serves for the plot is to show by contrast how much of an egomaniacal narc Jack is, which I enjoyed for subverting the relationship tropes we've grown to expect, but then the end of the movie has them together anyway? I can only assume this worked out because of Jack's spirits being brought low over his failure, showing Sally to be more of a pining opportunist.
And if I'm not sure what the conclusion of the movie is but it sounds to me like it's about both holidays then, like a transitional movie for whatever comes between Halloween and Christmas... Wait when is Thanksgiving in America?
Imo that's the marketing gimmick. It's fitting for anytime between Halloween and Christmas- so while it's predominantly a cult classic to the emo crowd- normies can also enjoy it at any time during thisb2 month transitionary period. (American Thanksgiving is at the end of November, right between the two holidays)
And if I'm not sure what the conclusion of the movie is but it sounds to me like it's about both holidays then, like a transitional movie for whatever comes between Halloween and Christmas... Wait when is Thanksgiving in America?
Imo that's the marketing gimmick. It's fitting for anytime between Halloween and Christmas- so while it's predominantly a cult classic to the emo crowd- normies can also enjoy it at any time during thisb2 month transitionary period. (American Thanksgiving is at the end of November, right between the two holidays)
From my experiences anyway, the Glee crowd seems to really enjoy Nightmare Before Christmas even more so than the emo crowd.
They really should have just written Sally out of the story.
It was written at a time when Disney movies had to have a love interest side plot where the main character ends up in a happy relationship. And besides, I like Sally.
She has one good scene where she's trying to poison her maker, otherwise she's garbage and her + Jack's relationship has no chemistry. Even her solo is off key.
She's an emo icon. In the context of the universe she's not a good well-written character but by that premise not a single Disney love interest is a good character.
She's a rebellious teen whose entire world revolves around the boy she likes so emo teens who idolize the movie can relate to her. I knew girls in high school who were alllll about Sally the same way people now obsess over super heors.
They really should have just written Sally out of the story.
It was written at a time when Disney movies had to have a love interest side plot where the main character ends up in a happy relationship. And besides, I like Sally.
She has one good scene where she's trying to poison her maker, otherwise she's garbage and her + Jack's relationship has no chemistry. Even her solo is off key.
She's an emo icon.
Believe me I know, my ex-fiance was all over NBC media and proxied onto her and shit from Sally being an empty enough character to project onto.
Being an emo icon in this case is closer to being in the right place at the right time with that sewn together doll aesthetic, which from the looks of Tim's earlier works he's been holding onto as a character design for a while. To his credit the sight gags they have with her over that are pretty nice, but she's still so bland.
Honestly, her most effective scene for me (save for the poisoning her maker one) is where she's all like:
Sally: "But Jack, you're the Pumpkin King!"
Jack: /breaks her sketch of him "NOT ANYMORE!"
That scene in itself captured why those two would never work, not unless Sally becomes a complete doormat who otherwise vultures him at his lowest point (as we see in the film).
In the context of the universe she's not a good well-written character but by that premise not a single Disney love interest is a good character.
It's Tim Burton during his hay day, I expected more. He was once skilled at subverting tropes and throwing expectations on their head, but for some reason he didn't twist much around when it came to her character.
I almost feel like he wanted to do more with her and wasn't allowed to, considering how much his former work Frankenweenie scared them away from giving him complete control.
She's a rebellious teen whose entire world revolves around the boy she likes so emo teens who idolize the movie can relate to her.
She's a doormat, a rebel wannabe, but she isn't and gloms onto Jack in hopes of embracing it, but each time she's given the rebel option she rebels against that by insisting on convention.
I knew girls in high school who were alllll about Sally the same way people now obsess over super heors.
Me too, and I argued with them.
They really should have just written Sally out of the story.
It was written at a time when Disney movies had to have a love interest side plot where the main character ends up in a happy relationship. And besides, I like Sally.
She has one good scene where she's trying to poison her maker, otherwise she's garbage and her + Jack's relationship has no chemistry. Even her solo is off key.
She's an emo icon.
Believe me I know, my ex-fiance was all over NBC media and proxied onto her
Found the root of your dislike for Sally
Honestly, her most effective scene for me (save for the poisoning her maker one) is where she's all like:
Sally: "But Jack, you're the Pumpkin King!"
Jack: /breaks her sketch of him "NOT ANYMORE!"That scene in itself captured why those two would never work, not unless Sally becomes a complete doormat who otherwise vultures him at his lowest point (as we see in the film).
Very good point. Unfortunately this type of submissive female doormat troupe was the norm at the time in media. I'm glad we've grown past that
In the context of the universe she's not a good well-written character but by that premise not a single Disney love interest is a good character.
It's Tim Burton during his hay day, I expected more. He was once skilled at subverting tropes and throwing expectations on their head, but for some reason he didn't twist much around when it came to her character.
>subverting troupes. >throwing expectations on their head.
I disagree. He was dark and edgy in completely predictable ways by differing from the mainstream norm. Quiet emo doormat characters who views can easily project themselves onto are are his hallmark (Victor- Corpse Bride, Edward Sissorhands, even his version of Alice while smart and brave was very much quiet and just existing in her circumstances.) Characters who experience the story more than participating in it are fan favorites of his.
I knew girls in high school who were alllll about Sally the same way people now obsess over super heors.
Me too, and I argued with them.
I ate lunch with them, but I was the Gir fan instead.
They really should have just written Sally out of the story.
It was written at a time when Disney movies had to have a love interest side plot where the main character ends up in a happy relationship. And besides, I like Sally.
She has one good scene where she's trying to poison her maker, otherwise she's garbage and her + Jack's relationship has no chemistry. Even her solo is off key.
She's an emo icon.
Believe me I know, my ex-fiance was all over NBC media and proxied onto her
Found the root of your dislike for Sally
I'd disliked Sally before even meeting the aforementioned ex.
If anything that time spent took a toll on my appreciation for Jack, but with Sally there's very little worth saving or appreciating to the point of the movie being almost the same without her.
Honestly, her most effective scene for me (save for the poisoning her maker one) is where she's all like:
Sally: "But Jack, you're the Pumpkin King!"
Jack: /breaks her sketch of him "NOT ANYMORE!"That scene in itself captured why those two would never work, not unless Sally becomes a complete doormat who otherwise vultures him at his lowest point (as we see in the film).
Very good point. Unfortunately this type of submissive female doormat troupe was the norm at the time in media. I'm glad we've grown past that
Burton is also admittedly guilty of embracing it in his media, even in Edward Scissorhands. He shows a recognition of stronger women, but they are rarely if ever featured as main characters without some form of daintiness.
In his defense he makes the males fairly dainty too, but not to the same degree. With females he has a certain Madonna fixation in a lot of his works, while the males are meant to make more mistakes and otherwise be more experimental in spite of their mild mannered disposition.
In the context of the universe she's not a good well-written character but by that premise not a single Disney love interest is a good character.
It's Tim Burton during his hay day, I expected more. He was once skilled at subverting tropes and throwing expectations on their head, but for some reason he didn't twist much around when it came to her character.
>subverting troupes. >throwing expectations on their head.
I disagree. He was dark and edgy in completely predictable ways by differing from the mainstream norm.
He was a big part of establishing that norm, not the other way around. NBC came out in 1993, our edgelord media around then had much more of an 80s feel.
He otherwise was subverting many tropes of the time, toying with the expectations as a way of baiting the audience. I just wish he did it more in his later works but his earlier stuff was much more inspired.
Quiet emo doormat characters who views can easily project themselves onto are are his hallmark (Victor- Corpse Bride, Edward Sissorhands, even his version of Alice while smart and brave was very much quiet and just existing in her circumstances.)
Edward Scissorhands is quintessential him through the exaggerations of the traits. What better way is there to sell "I hurt everything I touch" than literal scissor hands?
Victor was around the time his plots became rehashes of what once worked as opposed to pioneering pieces that have guided others.
I knew girls in high school who were alllll about Sally the same way people now obsess over super heors.
Me too, and I argued with them.
I ate lunch with them, but I was the Gir fan instead.
Gir's just mania worship with a side of gas station culture.
That being said I'm a Dib fan.
It's a Christmas movie, as it takes place mostly in the Christmas realm
It takes place mostly in Halloween Town, with Halloween characters, and Halloween themes, they just happen to be examining Christmas through that lens.
