Sociopath Community

AliceInWonderland said: 

Inquirer said: 

AliceInWonderland said: 

I often don't hear people knocking on my door.Personally though, even if they did shout "police!" first, kicking down someone's door in the middle of the night like that seems very reckless to me.

Knocked, made their presence known, and had a warrant which gave them the legal right to break down the door after no response. 

This is standard protocol and is literally the purpose of gaining a warrant in the first place.

Just because it's technically legal doesn't mean we shouldn't expect police to be professional and good at what they're doing.

I think they did alright, followed protocol and nutralized the conflict. 

Oh yes, the mute cops with a case of mistaken address did a fine job at handling this conflict with completely uninvolved people. 

Race isn't the issue here, the issue here is over cops fucking up badly. Swap the races around and it's still a shitty situation. 

They should be experts at this. For instance, the difference between actually making sure their presence is known and mumbling out "police" is huge, wouldn't you say?

In all likely they probably thought they did make it known perfectly well enough.

...or they forgot. Cops cover for each other all the time, and the law and news cover for them where they otherwise can't. 

I have no way of knowing whether they announced themselves well or not but if only 1 out of 10 neighbors heard them (from what I read) and seemingly neither person inside the apartment then this seems unlikely to me. No body cameras either. Also why do the raid in the middle of the night when your main suspect isn't even there and you haven't made sure anything drug-related actually goes on in the apartment? Why return fire blindly through covered windows?

I mean 1 of 10 is pretty good. 

Regardless, they knocked and verbally stated their presence....that is all they are required to do and all they must do under protocol. 

No, when it comes to knocking they have to actually be heard. The point of it is to announce their presence, which they failed to do. 

They're the fucking police, they should have been slamming the door and yelling "POLICE!", not politely dropping by like the mailman. 

Naturally the narrative is going to exaggerate the race angle and I agree that's unfortunate. So is violent rioting and mob mentality. This way of policing shouldn't be a thing though and I'm sure it happens to black people more often than white. Or don't you think there's that much to take away from this other than that it was an unfortunate and tragic event?

 Is it happening to them more? Idk. Probably as simple as looking at demographic data for warrants. If that is true is it necessarly divisive or is it merely a consequence of crime demographic distributions? 

But isn't that crime demographic distribution a big part of this problem?

That's a social and political question, and has nothing to do with policing. 

Police are only meant to enforce the law.

When someone accidently poisons your food, they don't get "chef immunity". When someone accidently crashes your car, they don't get "valet immunity". Why should cops be able to get away with shooting innocent people when it was a series of mistakes of their own to begin with that led to needless death? 

Someone needs to be held liable, even if it's only the one who gave them the wrong address. 

Why American born blacks commit more crime then their counter parts is a whole other discussion. 

It doesn't take long to explain it really. 

Turncoat said: 

AliceInWonderland said: 

Inquirer said: 

AliceInWonderland said: 

I often don't hear people knocking on my door.Personally though, even if they did shout "police!" first, kicking down someone's door in the middle of the night like that seems very reckless to me.

Knocked, made their presence known, and had a warrant which gave them the legal right to break down the door after no response. 

This is standard protocol and is literally the purpose of gaining a warrant in the first place.

Just because it's technically legal doesn't mean we shouldn't expect police to be professional and good at what they're doing.

I think they did alright, followed protocol and nutralized the conflict. 

Oh yes, the mute cops with a case of mistaken address did a fine job at handling this conflict with completely uninvolved people. 

Race isn't the issue here, the issue here is over cops fucking up badly. Swap the races around and it's still a shitty situation. 

They should be experts at this. For instance, the difference between actually making sure their presence is known and mumbling out "police" is huge, wouldn't you say?

In all likely they probably thought they did make it known perfectly well enough.

...or they forgot. Cops cover for each other all the time, and the law and news cover for them where they otherwise can't. 

I have no way of knowing whether they announced themselves well or not but if only 1 out of 10 neighbors heard them (from what I read) and seemingly neither person inside the apartment then this seems unlikely to me. No body cameras either. Also why do the raid in the middle of the night when your main suspect isn't even there and you haven't made sure anything drug-related actually goes on in the apartment? Why return fire blindly through covered windows?

I mean 1 of 10 is pretty good. 

Regardless, they knocked and verbally stated their presence....that is all they are required to do and all they must do under protocol. 

No, when it comes to knocking they have to actually be heard. The point of it is to announce their presence, which they failed to do. 

They're the fucking police, they should have been slamming the door and yelling "POLICE!", not politely dropping by like the mailman. 

Naturally the narrative is going to exaggerate the race angle and I agree that's unfortunate. So is violent rioting and mob mentality. This way of policing shouldn't be a thing though and I'm sure it happens to black people more often than white. Or don't you think there's that much to take away from this other than that it was an unfortunate and tragic event?

 Is it happening to them more? Idk. Probably as simple as looking at demographic data for warrants. If that is true is it necessarly divisive or is it merely a consequence of crime demographic distributions? 

But isn't that crime demographic distribution a big part of this problem?

That's a social and political question, and has nothing to do with policing. 

Police are only meant to enforce the law.

When someone accidently poisons your food, they don't get "chef immunity". When someone accidently crashes your car, they don't get "valet immunity". Why should cops be able to get away with shooting innocent people when it was a series of mistakes of their own to begin with that led to needless death? 

They shouldn't and I never said they should. 

In this case though the officers were fired upon and one was hit, which gives them cause to fire back of course. 

The question would be do we hold the officers responsible for for murder, manslaughter, or endangerment. 

In this case the officer who discharged his firearm is being charged for endangerment because its been decided that he was not at fault for the death of breonna given he had good reason to defend himself given he had already been shot. 

Someone needs to be held liable, even if it's only the one who gave them the wrong address. 

Why American born blacks commit more crime then their counter parts is a whole other discussion. 

It doesn't take long to explain it really. 

 Explain it. 

AliceInWonderland said: 

I love the smell of protests in the morning. 

We all live in our own delusions but it's really quite astonishing to witness such a grand narrative built completely on falsehoods become so widespread and moreover something that has dictated the mass actions we've witnessed these last few months. 

The U.S. really needs to improve its education system.  

 Most ironic post of 2020.

AliceInWonderland said: 

Inquirer said: 

AliceInWonderland said: 

We all live in our own delusions but it's really quite astonishing to witness such a grand narrative built completely on falsehoods become so widespread and moreover something that has dictated the mass actions we've witnessed these last few months. 

What false narrative is that exactly?

The false narrative is that of protestors who ignore evidence and merely react emotionally to the event, they don't wish to understand and instead use it. They the make false statements like the ones stated and in doing so propagate unrealistic expectations pertaining to the results of a case like this. In doing so they create a dangerous mob mentality built around moral superiority and then are able to justify statements like 'Tonight is going to be different' and 'You all are going to die tonight', the result is two murdered cops, 

-drowns in the irony-

Xadem said: 

I see the same self righteous "im making a difference!!" with people at the BLM protests here in Belgium. No doubt there are plenty of genuine people but there are also those who are larping and its distasteful and sad. Like Hollywood culture has permeated us so badly that we think we are le cool activists/alt right/anarchists and larp but with real consequences. What the fuck

 Life has gotten too comfortable for realism.  People in the first world don't understand their limitations.  Like all the people on both sides saying they want anarchy or a war.  They think they're Rambo, because they never had to leave their mom's basement, so nothing ever taught them they aren't.

AliceInWonderland said: 

Naturally the narrative is going to exaggerate the race angle and I agree that's unfortunate. So is violent rioting and mob mentality. This way of policing shouldn't be a thing though and I'm sure it happens to black people more often than white. Or don't you think there's that much to take away from this other than that it was an unfortunate and tragic event?

 Is it happening to them more? Idk. Probably as simple as looking at demographic data for warrants. If that is true is it necessarly divisive or is it merely a consequence of crime demographic distributions? 

But isn't that crime demographic distribution a big part of this problem?

That's a social and political question, and has nothing to do with policing. 

Police are only meant to enforce the law.

When someone accidently poisons your food, they don't get "chef immunity". When someone accidently crashes your car, they don't get "valet immunity". Why should cops be able to get away with shooting innocent people when it was a series of mistakes of their own to begin with that led to needless death? 

They shouldn't and I never said they should. 

In this case though the officers were fired upon and one was hit, which gives them cause to fire back of course. 

Couldn't they have used cover (hiding behind the wall by the door) in combination with cop sensitivity training instead of turning it into a gunfight? Couldn't they have attempted to identify the shooter instead of just unloading on everyone inside? What if there'd been other people in there and it was just the one guy with the gun, this could have been like four or more deaths just as easily as this outcome based purely on police response. This is all supposed to be a part of their training. 

Couldn't there have been body cams at least? The fact that people have to try to compensate for Cop-Family defensive biases in stories is fucked up when that's supposed to be who's otherwise trusted. Past a point it starts to feel more like a mob that demands conceptual forms of protection payments instead of a law enforcement agency when you can't even take them for their word. 

The question would be do we hold the officers responsible for for murder, manslaughter, or endangerment. 

In this case the officer who discharged his firearm is being charged for endangerment because its been decided that he was not at fault for the death of breonna given he had good reason to defend himself given he had already been shot. 

Occupational Immunity will probably just give them a slap on the wrist. It's not like this is the only time that cops have fucked something like this up, this is a highlighted case that otherwise helps bring the discussion to the forefront. 

Race as a plot device is helpful for bringing the issues with the police overall up for discussion instead of allowing it to be business as usual, as it once was. Cops should be being focused on for their mistakes, and the system should be focused on for how they handle those mistakes once they occur. 

Someone needs to be held liable, even if it's only the one who gave them the wrong address. 

Why American born blacks commit more crime then their counter parts is a whole other discussion. 

It doesn't take long to explain it really. 

 Explain it. 

Racial History + Short Sighted Classism, bruh. 

Turncoat said: 

AliceInWonderland said: 

Naturally the narrative is going to exaggerate the race angle and I agree that's unfortunate. So is violent rioting and mob mentality. This way of policing shouldn't be a thing though and I'm sure it happens to black people more often than white. Or don't you think there's that much to take away from this other than that it was an unfortunate and tragic event?

 Is it happening to them more? Idk. Probably as simple as looking at demographic data for warrants. If that is true is it necessarly divisive or is it merely a consequence of crime demographic distributions? 

But isn't that crime demographic distribution a big part of this problem?

That's a social and political question, and has nothing to do with policing. 

Police are only meant to enforce the law.

When someone accidently poisons your food, they don't get "chef immunity". When someone accidently crashes your car, they don't get "valet immunity". Why should cops be able to get away with shooting innocent people when it was a series of mistakes of their own to begin with that led to needless death? 

They shouldn't and I never said they should. 

In this case though the officers were fired upon and one was hit, which gives them cause to fire back of course. 

Couldn't they have used cover (hiding behind the wall by the door) in combination with cop sensitivity training instead of turning it into a gunfight? Couldn't they have attempted to identify the shooter instead of just unloading on everyone inside? What if there'd been other people in there and it was just the one guy with the gun, this could have been like four or more deaths just as easily as this outcome based purely on police response. This is all supposed to be a part of their training. 

lol a wall isn't going to stop most rounds, this isn't a video game. 

If fired upon the immediate goal is to end the engagement as quickly as possible, shooting the person shooting you is usually your best bet. If they turned this into a fire fight more lives would be endangered.  

Couldn't there have been body cams at least? 

Sure. 

The question would be do we hold the officers responsible for for murder, manslaughter, or endangerment. 

In this case the officer who discharged his firearm is being charged for endangerment because its been decided that he was not at fault for the death of breonna given he had good reason to defend himself given he had already been shot. 

Occupational Immunity will probably just give them a slap on the wrist. It's not like this is the only time that cops have fucked something like this up, this is a highlighted case that otherwise helps bring the discussion to the forefront. 

Yeah, its a difficult job and unions can be destructive just as much as constructive. 

Race as a plot device is helpful for bringing the issues with the police overall up for discussion instead of allowing it to be business as usual, as it once was. Cops should be being focused on for their mistakes, and the system should be focused on for how they handle those mistakes once they occur. 

And unhelpful when trying to solve the problem. 

Someone needs to be held liable, even if it's only the one who gave them the wrong address. 

Why American born blacks commit more crime then their counter parts is a whole other discussion. 

It doesn't take long to explain it really. 

 Explain it. 

Racial History + Short Sighted Classism, bruh. 

 If we want to oversimplify things and not solve the real issues at hand, yes that would be the explanation. 

AliceInWonderland said: 

Knocked, made their presence known, and had a warrant which gave them the legal right to break down the door after no response. 

This is standard protocol and is literally the purpose of gaining a warrant in the first place.

They viewed this particular case to be soft which so they chose to do a knock warrant. After several knocks and verbally making their presence known with no response they then will enter the home forcefully. Were they supposed to just leave?

Let's get one thing straight.  It was a no knock warrant, whether you like it or not.  You're literally just making things up to suit your narrative.  Even the cops say it was a no knock warrant.  Whether or not they chose to knock anyway... for fun? lol.... is up for debate (albeit a stupid one), but the fact remains, regardless of your feelings, that they were executing a no knock warrant.  A dangerous policy, which has led to things like a mother being shot and killed with her infant in her arms, and a toddler being put in a medically induced coma.  If you'd like some reading material, since the only reading material you seem to find on your own are things that support your worldview, here's a 2014 ACLU report on the militarization of the police and in particular, the danger presented to the public by no knock warrants.

Tryptamine said: 

Inquirer said: 

AliceInWonderland said: 

We all live in our own delusions but it's really quite astonishing to witness such a grand narrative built completely on falsehoods become so widespread and moreover something that has dictated the mass actions we've witnessed these last few months. 

What false narrative is that exactly?

Every time there's white-on-black action, people have been conditioned to freak out about it. That's what gets the media coverage. Never mind that blacks create a disproportionate amount of crime, let's zoom the fuck in on white police retaliating against people pulling firearms against them, etc. Let's torch their buildings and destroy private businesses for just being in the area.

Every time?  So I assume you've researched extensively on questionable police actions against black people and have found absolutely no traces of any case that wasn't highly publicized?  Interesting. lol

The false narrative is that we've not had severe racial issues for about 10 years, but people are pushing it to the media because it's politically expedient. BLM funds go directly to the Democratic Party. Look up the founders of BLM, the people pushing this radical race movement. Ties with Weather Underground and everything, what the fuck.

 As Inquirer and Turncoat have said, why shouldn't they?  It sounds like you're trying to make a conspiracy out of basic political activism.

AliceInWonderland said: 

Turncoat said: 

AliceInWonderland said: 

Naturally the narrative is going to exaggerate the race angle and I agree that's unfortunate. So is violent rioting and mob mentality. This way of policing shouldn't be a thing though and I'm sure it happens to black people more often than white. Or don't you think there's that much to take away from this other than that it was an unfortunate and tragic event?

 Is it happening to them more? Idk. Probably as simple as looking at demographic data for warrants. If that is true is it necessarly divisive or is it merely a consequence of crime demographic distributions? 

But isn't that crime demographic distribution a big part of this problem?

That's a social and political question, and has nothing to do with policing. 

Police are only meant to enforce the law.

When someone accidently poisons your food, they don't get "chef immunity". When someone accidently crashes your car, they don't get "valet immunity". Why should cops be able to get away with shooting innocent people when it was a series of mistakes of their own to begin with that led to needless death? 

They shouldn't and I never said they should. 

In this case though the officers were fired upon and one was hit, which gives them cause to fire back of course. 

Couldn't they have used cover (hiding behind the wall by the door) in combination with cop sensitivity training instead of turning it into a gunfight? Couldn't they have attempted to identify the shooter instead of just unloading on everyone inside? What if there'd been other people in there and it was just the one guy with the gun, this could have been like four or more deaths just as easily as this outcome based purely on police response. This is all supposed to be a part of their training. 

lol a wall isn't going to stop most rounds, this isn't a video game. 

Firearm strength vs wall density aside, it's about visibility. They could increase his odds of missing and count on when he'd be reloading. 

Either way, firing upon the entire room over one guy's fucked up. Their situational awareness is garbage considering how that's literally one of the focuses of their training. They aren't supposed to be trigger happy and easily shook like we've been seeing across so many Youtube videos lately, they're supposed to be coordinated. Instead we see them making flagrant errors that are quickly covered up or dismissed. 

If fired upon the immediate goal is to end the engagement as quickly as possible, shooting the person shooting you is usually your best bet. If they turned this into a fire fight more lives would be endangered.  

I suppose killing everyone inside is one way to end an engagement as quickly as possible. 

Kinda makes hostage situations into more of a shitty situation than I once figured. 

The question would be do we hold the officers responsible for for murder, manslaughter, or endangerment. 

In this case the officer who discharged his firearm is being charged for endangerment because its been decided that he was not at fault for the death of breonna given he had good reason to defend himself given he had already been shot. 

Occupational Immunity will probably just give them a slap on the wrist. It's not like this is the only time that cops have fucked something like this up, this is a highlighted case that otherwise helps bring the discussion to the forefront. 

Yeah, its a difficult job and unions can be destructive just as much as constructive. 

So you're saying they shouldn't be held liable? 

Race as a plot device is helpful for bringing the issues with the police overall up for discussion instead of allowing it to be business as usual, as it once was. Cops should be being focused on for their mistakes, and the system should be focused on for how they handle those mistakes once they occur. 

And unhelpful when trying to solve the problem. 

It's a megaphone, which isn't unhelpful at all. These stories should be heard, not buried as it once was. Even now tons of stories still go unheard while police show themselves to be more like a mob than a law enforcement agency. 

If we can't take them at their word, we can't trust them. If we can't trust them and the news sells out to them, then it'll only be heard through being LOUD. As such, racism is the perfect subject to get attention onto them even if it's also somewhat of a distraction, as it's more about making some noise and directing it towards them than 'sensibly' finding a solution. 

We had the time before to solve it and it became what it is now. Reform won't happen if people just let the energy die down, and we have more than enough decades to look back on now over how Peaceful Protest no longer works. 

Someone needs to be held liable, even if it's only the one who gave them the wrong address. 

Why American born blacks commit more crime then their counter parts is a whole other discussion. 

It doesn't take long to explain it really. 

 Explain it. 

Racial History + Short Sighted Classism, bruh. 

 If we want to oversimplify things and not solve the real issues at hand, yes that would be the explanation. 

Well yeah, solving it was never the question here.