Sociopath Community

I was actually in denial for a pretty long time about it, trying to find any reason why it wasn't that. Still though, what else could it be? 

Interesting....even trying to see it from that perspective is a stretch ,...that ends in violence were it on my end...so...lol....

Realities clashing tend to fall apart to one that ends in flesh, blood, bone and stone....that's the one I am comfy in..

Freyja stated: source post

Happiness and motivation are not things that strike you like a bolt of lightening, and it's not pre-determined by genetics and brain chemistry either, it's an attitude that you are choosing, either consciously or subconsciously, every day.

hahahahaha Happiness is not determined by brain chemistry? Happiness is brain chemistry. This bitch dumb as fuuuuuuuuck...

Turncoat stated: source post

 

MissCommunication stated: source post

Have you ever had a second opinion on your diagnosis? 

Not one that I'd say counts anyway. My abnormal psych professor ended up asking me about it half-way through the semester after watching some of my behaviors, but that's like... 10% usable at most. 

A second opinion couldn't hurt, but I can't imagine what other disorders offhand could have these symptoms. Do you have any potential leads? 
 

No. I'm not a shrink and I don't know your symptoms even to look them up. I've learned recently that some mental issues present very oddly and in ways I never expected. 

It sounds like you possibly self-diagnosed and then found people to support your conclusion. 

I was actually in denial for a pretty long time about it, trying to find any reason why it wasn't that. Still though, what else could it be? 
 

It also sounds like you've decided that this is a life sentence with only one outcome. There is no cure for schizophrenia but there's treatment. 

So... therapy and meds. I could try wasting spending money time with therapy again, but that won't get rid of the symptoms. At most they'll give me a few more coping tactics. 

Maybe when I can afford to have insurance again.

More coping mechanisms is the benefit I could see. And not necessarily with the schizophrenia but with the depression/lack of joy.

My cousin has schizophrenia. He had several bizarre episodes, with the last one finding him wandering downtown in a city in the dead of winter with no coat or shoes.  He was hospitalized and finally diagnosed. It took much time before doctors reached that conclusion, so I am surprised how your diagnosis seemed to come.It was around half a year of video taped therapy before the weird tests happened 

 Oh, so sounds like a thorough diagnosis then.

Anyhow, that was about 15 years ago and now he takes his medication regularly. Since then he has received a second undergrad degree and recently completed his MBA. He has a well paying, low stress government job that he enjoys. He will be on medication for the rest of his life, which is a bummer but no different than someone with diabetes or a heart condition. He leads a good life and he seems cheerful enough to me. I suspect he experiences happiness coming and going like anyone else.

Weird, as medication for schizophrenia doesn't typically solve the joy deficits, as all it can do is treat some of the positive symptoms (namely the worst of them, the psychosis). Maybe he was lucky and escaped that symptom entirely? 

I don't know him well enough to say if he was depressed or not. He lives far away. I know his life wasn't easy at times. 

My point is that you don't have to suffer needlessly. You should research the positive outcomes of treatment and open your mind to that.

I won't risk becoming that side of myself permanently. I'd rather die. 

I can understand that if it is true but it would be interesting to know for sure if that was a medical guarantee or the likely hood of that happening anyway.   

Maybe find people who have the illness but are living productive lives.

I've only met one so far (unmedicated), and he's still suffering despite it. I've had a lot of time to watch his life, over two decades of time, seeing as it's my own father. The others... aren't doing so well right now. 

I didn't know your dad had this too, or I forgot I guess. That would be frightening if you watched him flail, I'm sure. :(  I found the quote below in this article http://psychcentral.com/lib/illuminating-13-myths-of-schizophrenia/
Another reason therapy could help...

"Along with genetics, research has shown that stress and family environment can play a big role in increasing a person’s susceptibility to psychosis. “While we can’t change genetic vulnerability, we can reduce the amount of stress in someone’s life, build coping skills to improve the way we respond to stress, and create a protective low-key, calm family environment without a lot of conflict and tension in hopes of reducing the risk of illness progression,” De Sliva said.

Finding cases that are doing well won't stop the meds from scaring the piss out of me. It might decrease some of the pessimism, but by how much? 

I have no idea, I don't how open you are to optimism. :P No guarantee but I would think it would help to see that all cases are different and the majority of people seem to do better with treatment. Even if you don't want it, it would be good info. 

“While schizophrenia is not curable, it is an eminently treatable and manageable chronic illness, just like diabetes or heart disease,” Levine said. The key is to get the right treatment for your needs. See Living with Schizophrenia here for details.

Not just the monsters in the movies and media ~  There are a lot of false stereotypes about schizophrenia. 

No shit, movies like Sybil have done a ton of damage. 

I'm a fairly textbook case of the disorder as opposed to a Hollywood sensationalism case. Shit, if I were like how it is in horror flicks I'd need to be put away right now. 

There's also a 'Beautiful Mind' - It's Hollywood version again but more promising than Sybil (and based on a true story). Anyhow, I do hope you can get some support with this. It sounds exhausting for you. 
 

Ok, before we get started we just need to address the allegation you’ve made seven times - that I can’t read. When I was ten years old I had the reading age of a 14-year-old; this was despite the fact that neither of my parents were fully literate and I’d had only two years of formal education at the time with less-than-regular attendance. I clearly have a fuller and more consistent grasp of English grammar than you do, as evidenced by, you know, writing ability (something you might actually benefit from working on if you are serious about this job-hunting business). There is no way that I would have bothered to type out all of my previous post had I thought you weren’t actually deserving of some help here, but if your fixation with my reading ability is a dig at my background and a pathetic little attempt at racial abuse then you clearly are a disgusting piece of shit not worthy of my or anyone else’s time. For the sake of this thread, I’m just going to assume that you’re a silly boy who can’t grasp the idea that someone doesn’t see things from the same point of view as him so assumes they didn’t understand him properly. In a similar vein, this is my main account and I’d say that Edvard and I agree with each other to about the same extent that you and Crow used to. Does that make my opinion less valid? 

Anyway, back to you. I would agree with MissC in questioning your diagnosis, both the outcome and the manner in which it was made. What happened at that university sounds an abhorrent way to treat someone with a suspected mental disorder and not like anything I’ve ever heard of. I’m not questioning your account of it, just saying it is a situation far outside of the norm. It clearly traumatised you to the extent you are still suffering after-effects, and I’m wondering if you’d considered the possibility of seeking legal redress? If the incident with the moving furniture was done without your consent when you were in a vulnerable state I think you would have a very good case for claiming compensation. You say this was all videotaped, do you know what happened to the video? There are strict laws governing this kind of thing, and if this was done to you without your informed written consent they can actually get into a shitload of trouble for that. i think it would honestly be worth putting together as detailed an account of that time as you can remember, with as much factual info as you have (names, dates, any paperwork you still have etc) and approaching a legal professional on a no-win, no-fee basis or through some sort of legal aid if there is any in your state.

It sounds like a traumatic experience and I’m sorry you had to go through that, but think you’re making a huge mistake in letting that experience put you off seeking help from medical professionals. I’m left a little confused by your assertion that ‘the only’ thing to be gained from therapy is better coping strategies. Surely if you found a good therapist to work with who could help you see things a little clearer and give you some practical coping strategies for everyday life then the benefits of that would be huge? You seem to think that because your disorder can’t be cured completely then there is no point in trying to make your quality of life better. That is a childish perspective, rather like saying, “if I can’t have exactly what I want then I won’t settle for something similar, I’ll just have nothing at all”. 

Medical professionals are there for a reason, and I’m sorry if your experiences have made you paranoid, but very few, if any, of them have bad intentions. If you, based on one of two bad experiences, have completely ruled out therapy and medication then you are closing off whole avenues that could potentially be very useful to you. It will probably take several attempts to find a doctor or therapist you feel you can work with, as it’s such a personal thing, but just giving up after not finding it useful a couple or a handful of times is an extremely defeatist attitude. Schizophrenia is an extremely serious illness, and if you are determined to cope with it alone and not gain help from the professionals then how do you expect things to get any better? You say you are trying and do want your life to get better (as opposed to sitting around complaining and demanding sympathy whilst using it as a get-out clause for taking personal responsibility for your life), but what are you actually doing in a practical way to facilitate this? 

You make a lot of assumptions that I have never seen your disorder and don’t know what it’s like, but I actually have a long family history of schizophrenia stretching back several generations. I understand that this disorder manifests in different ways in different people, but I would echo what others have said in that your seeking out a second opinion for your diagnosis would be worthwhile. Full-blown schizophrenia is a debilitating illness and not something that can really be coped with just by willpower alone, as you seem to suggest you’re doing. You’ve come here on an almost daily basis for a number of years and seemed consistent, lucid, able to express yourself and not completely delusional. Schizophrenia is not something that you can switch on and off, and if you have managed to achieve this level of functionality without the help of meds or psychological support then that is quite simply remarkable. You say you’re afraid of ending up like a lower-functioning schizophrenic, but when you compare your posts to, for example, MrDelta’s, you can surely see that you’re nowhere near that level, to the point where you have to question whether it really is the same disorder.

I’m not a psychiatrist, and nobody online is qualified to advise you without meeting you in person, but I’d tentatively suggest you look into the possibility of schizotypal personality disorder rather than full-blown schizophrenia. You talk a lot about labels and seem very concerned about finding a ‘label’ that fits you. I have to wonder why this is so important to you. Especially seeing as you have chosen not to go down the route of therapy or medication, what does it matter if your problems don’t fit into a neat little category as outlined by medical professionals? Would it not make more sense to treat your collection of symptoms independently and for what they are, rather than lumbering yourself with a label as daunting as schizophrenia? Surely that is only causing more harm than good, in that it risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

Even if it is schizophrenia, I actually personally know several people who live full, meaningful and, yes, happy lives with the condition - it’s far from easy, but they manage with the help of a strong support network of friends and family, carefully prescribed medication, support from health professionals and being careful about diet, exercise and getting enough sleep. It seems a small price to pay for, you know, happiness, really. You say you have literally no examples of people living successfully with schizophrenia… Have you tried using Google? Elyn Saks, Erica Camus, erm, John Nash? I don’t have to introduce you to family members to show you that mental illness is not an excuse for failure in life. 

But then, if you honestly believe that achieving happiness and success in life, whatever those things mean to you, are as impossible as growing another limb (one of the most ridiculous assertions I’ve ever had the pleasure of reading on this forum) then this discussion is pointless. You’ve decided that your destiny is pre-determined and that is that. You’ll prove yourself right, of course, but don’t expect any sympathy here, or indeed anywhere. 

"What happened at that university sounds an abhorrent way to treat someone with a suspected mental disorder and not like anything I’ve ever heard of. I’m not questioning your account of it, just saying it is a situation far outside of the norm."

Erm... TC doesn't live in a lovely European democratic socialist utopia. Murricans are quite vicious about their concepts of "undeserving" vs. "deserving." You should have seen the shit that happened at my uni when the wrong person found out I was homeless. Yuck.

Americans are even more bigoted about certain things. Mental illness is one of them. Americans and Canadians are horribly classist, even in university settings where it's technically not allowed. Americans are also racist in scary ways that I was not even aware of till I hitched around down south. (So glad the racists are gentler up here. They just use gross words for the most part and don't hang or torture people to death, or set stuff on fire.)

That's all I'm disagreeing with for now. I'll read the rest of your response more thoroughly before I comment again.

It sounds like you possibly self-diagnosed and then found people to support your conclusion. 

I was actually in denial for a pretty long time about it, trying to find any reason why it wasn't that. Still though, what else could it be? 
 

It also sounds like you've decided that this is a life sentence with only one outcome. There is no cure for schizophrenia but there's treatment. 

So... therapy and meds. I could try wasting spending money time with therapy again, but that won't get rid of the symptoms. At most they'll give me a few more coping tactics. 

Maybe when I can afford to have insurance again.

Here's smthg you haven't considered: The meds have such an unmistakeble effect that you will know beyond any doubt whatsoever that you are NOT schizophrenic, if you try them and they're wrong for you.

That was my irrefutable proof that I have ADHD and not schizophrenia, btw.

ADHD is a result of low dopamine levels and schizophrenia is a result of too much dopamine on the brain.

Just guess what happened when my doc all but completely cut off my fuckin dopamine supply.

It was actually painful. I shit thee not.

As for the rest... I'll side with you for the most part bc TC speaks highly of his parents. He's luckier than most.

But... and this is a big but: Schizophrenics only have 1 in 4 odds of living somewhat normally. 1 in 4 will snap and commit suicide or end up in a prison for the criminally insane (or get gunned down by police) bc they can't deal with their hallucinations. 1 in 4 end up in and out of hospitals and homeless shelters bc they can't perform day to day self care tasks on their own.

The other 1 in 4 are ok with independence but need lots of in home help.

I don't think I've ever met a schizophrenic who could hold down a job.

I met one while I was attending college, but that college was easy lol

Most of the schizophrenics I met were in shelters. Their functioning was nothing like Turncoat's.

If I had to guess, I'd say TC is bipolar with smthg OCDish, with the OCD fixations possibly being some type of learned overcompensation for whatever underlying neurophysiology/ chemistry is causing his strange pain/ pleasure crossovers.

There are probably other sensory issues that go along with that crossover, amirite? Some other type of synaesthesia that's more of a crossover than a fullblown hallucination?

I think this is very well considered.

"Anyway, back to you. I would agree with MissC in questioning your diagnosis, both the outcome and the manner in which it was made. What happened at that university sounds an abhorrent way to treat someone with a suspected mental disorder and not like anything I’ve ever heard of. I’m not questioning your account of it, just saying it is a situation far outside of the norm. It clearly traumatised you to the extent you are still suffering after-effects, and I’m wondering if you’d considered the possibility of seeking legal redress? If the incident with the moving furniture was done without your consent when you were in a vulnerable state I think you would have a very good case for claiming compensation. You say this was all videotaped, do you know what happened to the video? There are strict laws governing this kind of thing, and if this was done to you without your informed written consent they can actually get into a shitload of trouble for that. i think it would honestly be worth putting together as detailed an account of that time as you can remember, with as much factual info as you have (names, dates, any paperwork you still have etc) and approaching a legal professional on a no-win, no-fee basis or through some sort of legal aid if there is any in your state.

It sounds like a traumatic experience and I’m sorry you had to go through that, but think you’re making a huge mistake in letting that experience put you off seeking help from medical professionals. I’m left a little confused by your assertion that ‘the only’ thing to be gained from therapy is better coping strategies. Surely if you found a good therapist to work with who could help you see things a little clearer and give you some practical coping strategies for everyday life then the benefits of that would be huge? You seem to think that because your disorder can’t be cured completely then there is no point in trying to make your quality of life better. That is a childish perspective, rather like saying, “if I can’t have exactly what I want then I won’t settle for something similar, I’ll just have nothing at all”."

(EDIT: Not sure if I ought to clarify, but I'm aware this is Frey's post, it's just a good prelude to my response to Turn)

I'm not familiar with the mental health system in the US, so it's hard for me to question your narrative, Turn.

I have, however, had rotations within acute adult inpatient psychiatric units in Australia, and your experience would never, ever happen.

To best illustrate, I suppose, I can tell you about a young man that I watched enter psychiatric care for the first time, and transition back into the community.

He was in his 20s, brought in by police after being found wandering naked and relating unintelligible, delusional ideas. Upon arriving at the hospital, he was placed on an assessment order (a 24 hour hold for observation and assessment by a psychiatrist). After the psych attended, and agreed that he required involuntary psychiatric treatment, the Mental Health Tribunal (MHT) was contacted via video link. This is a requirement for all involuntary inpatient psychiatric admissions in Victoria. They can be contacted 24/7, and are a panel of a lawyer, a psychiatrist and a member of the public. The patient has the opportunity to speak with this tribunal themselves.

The MHT agreed that this man was unwell (a risk to himself and others) and required intervention (involuntary treatment). They granted a temporary treatment order (TTO) which tend to range in duration, but are capped at 6 or 12 months (I can't remember which, but the full term is rarely required. You're welcome to read the Mental Health Act of Victoria if you're interested). 

This young man was admitted, commenced on the appropriate medications as decided by the psychiatric team. He spent about 3-4 weeks inpatient, and made marked improvement. He gained insight, lost some of his positive symptoms, and was able to be discharged home to his family. His TTO was abandoned, and he continued to receive outpatient psychiatric treatment in the community.

The above story is representative of about 80% of schizophrenia diagnoses in Australia (potentially bar the smoothness of return to functionality, there are some tricky cases no doubt). The other 20% would include those with many/misdiagnoses, those in private psychiatric care, or those in other institutions (i.e. prison). This isn't to say that this young man wandered off into the sunset and lived happily every after. In all likelihood, this will be a lifelong struggle of relapse and recovery.

Your story would be absolutely unprecedented, and would violate the Mental Health Act which governs psychiatric treatment in Victoria. The doctors involve would be deregistered and may even face charges of malpractice.

Much much worse than TC's story happens in the US.

  Ok, before we get started we just need to address the allegation you’ve made seven times - that I can’t read. When I was ten years old I had the reading age of a 14-year-old; this was despite the fact that neither of my parents were fully literate and I’d had only two years of formal education at the time with less-than-regular attendance. I clearly have a fuller and more consistent grasp of English grammar than you do, as evidenced by, you know, writing ability (something you might actually benefit from working on if you are serious about this job-hunting business). There is no way that I would have bothered to type out all of my previous post had I thought you weren’t actually deserving of some help here, but if your fixation with my reading ability is a dig at my background and a pathetic little attempt at racial abuse then you clearly are a disgusting piece of shit not worthy of my or anyone else’s time.

I don't think it had anything to do with that, I'm unsure if anyone knew that about your past as you've taken the time to inform us right now but its more likely that you've admitted in the past to simply skimming and not actually reading through his post mostly because you found them to be to lengthy and even then, in other threads, having admitted that yourself have chosen to side with Edvard which of course does make you seem a bit biased. Since you know, skimming and not fully bothering to read and such.

Also its a little off putting that you would say if he were doing it as a jab at your past that means hes disgusting piece of shit clearly not your time or anyone else's when the same could be applied to Edvard. What you're doing here is setting a backstory and attempting show your audience "look! He's a piece of shit if he's doing this!"  when really its just him throwing back onto you something you said yourself.

Also: Deserving of some help.

You're so kind. Truly.

For the sake of this thread, I’m just going to assume that you’re a silly boy who can’t grasp the idea that someone doesn’t see things from the same point of view as him so assumes they didn’t understand him properly. In a similar vein, this is my main account and I’d say that Edvard and I agree with each other to about the same extent that you and Crow used to. Does that make my opinion less valid?

Ed used to group them together because they agreed on things, as far as to basically make it feel that any opinion that they had wasn't individual and therefore not valid because they had similar opinions so ....

I think that the important thing to remember that he does show signs of depression and these feelings of hopelessness and "nothing will help me" statements are part of that. These are substantial roadblocks already. You can't tell someone who is depressed to simply get over it. That if they really wanted help they'd get it. That's not how depression and mental illness works. Also seeking a diagnosis is a slight cause for fear because if its actually labeled the chance of getting a job is slim- oh they won't say it directly to your face, but they'll be wary to offer you the position thanks to Hollywood's portrayal of the disease. There are reasons why so many people in the US go without treatment especially also without a diagnosis, stigma being one. I remember someone telling me that schizophrenia was an intimate and insidious friend that convinced you that you didn't need treatment and supplied you with excuses and making you less motivated to seek help.

mental illness is not an excuse for failure in life.

Snap outta that depression right now! there's nothing to be depressed about! Have you tried not being depressed?

Sorry, sure its not an excuse but that type of rigid thinking is what makes people not want to seek help. Mental illness makes it hard for some people for succeed. Social anxiety, panic attacks, depression, all of this doesn't help you succeed. Seeing others have success while all you do- even when putting your all into your efforts and still fail hurts. It's important to understand that there is going to be some failure and that's okay. Instead of saying: I understand that you have this mental illness let's find a way to help you work through it or at least cope better, you're saying: so you have this? I know tons of others that still have successful lives why are you not like them?? 

Its like telling the guy with no legs, one arm and no access to a wheelchair to hurry up already and cross the finish line there's another race to go to.