Chapo stated: source post
I mean I'm not saying George Carlin said this 10 years ago.
I like that guy. tasers chapo
"i didn't say that was what it was, i said that's the context most people mention it in."
Because it is the context. These behaviors are not random nor cerebral. You can find analogues for them across the animal kingdom.
"i'd need more studies than that and with larger sample sizes. you can find a study that says anything, but finding 10-20 gets more difficult"
I'm not your personal researcher. Here are two starting points if you actually care:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_and_race
"at least you realize human nature doesn't explain rape, but you contradicted yourself. you said they're hard-wired to propagate forcefully sometimes. that means humans are...hard-wired to rape"
I said it did not excuse rape. And I did not say they were hard-wired to rape. I said animals are hard-wired to propagate.
"why do you have a hard time believing we could go even further?"
We can do better. Read my response to MissC.
"so if primates arrange hierarchically and it leads to corruption - so it's natural, how is it a fixable problem?"
A system of checks and balances that no government that I know of is near reaching, currently. But that is not to say such a system is impossible to achieve.
"and what makes this a fixable problem and not the other things that are caused by "human nature"?"
Because then you'd be delving into the realm of eugenics. Read the excerpt from The Selfish Gene that I posted for further insight into why I say this. Only a global authoritarian state could bring about the sort of eugenics program that would be necessary to alter human nature. In a world of 7 billion people with so many conflicting interests, I do not think a global state is possible any longer.
"SN: why didn't your respond to the rest of the post?"
I can now.
"even if it is real, i notice that people never even want to use their critical thinking skills to try to find ways to work around it, possibly change it? with all of the technological advancements, you'd think by now there'd be some non-genocidey way to get that accomplished."
Is that happening in any way?
"i don't believe there's enough proof that humans are hard-wired to do negative things or positive things. if people used this cop out centuries ago, a lot of fucked up things would still be happening."
A lot of fucked up things still do happen. Just less of them, because of the development of justice and advances in forensic science.
"i wish more people would just be honest and admit they're too arrogant to think maybe just maybe "evolution" has better plans for the species than this mess we have right now."
Evolution does not operate on planning. It does not have a will. It operates on optimization of genetics for producing offspring. It functions based on the success rate of genetic lineage.
"But if you say human nature is responsible for the bad then it stems that the opposite is also true and then what exactly equates to "human nature"?"
It is multifaceted. For example, empathy and altruism are also human characteristics.
"Is it one universal viewpoint or set of behavioural characteristics? Or possible behaviour patterns that have emerged based on unique circumstances, such as culture, access to resources, geography etc.?"
Certainly there are fundamental human traits. For example, facial expressions across the globe, even in indigenous people, display the same emotions. All the other things you mention...yes, they play a role. We are at core homo sapiens, but our experiences shape us.
"I've never heard this before. It's interesting. I can think of a few reasons this may have happened. It also could be used to argue that 'human nature' is amenable to a change in circumstances - less stress, less testosterone, more cooperation? I dunno just a thought."
Before the decrease in testosterone, murder was much more rampant. My guess is that those who did not play by the rules of the agrarian collectives were "weeded out," thus shifting the base gene pool. But no one really knows.
Daniella stated: source post
i'm convinced when most people use that phrase, the only purpose is to make an excuse for how fucked up the world is...
That doesn't make it any less valid. You can choose to not accept it as an excuse just as much as you could not excuse someone for stealing a loaf of bread when reduced to starvation.
racism, rape, murder, government corruption, etc are considered things that will always be here because of "human nature".
The good aspects in many cases are lumped into "human nature" as well. It's better to accept that it exists and work to do things about it from within than act like it's inhuman, that they're some other creature entirely for falling into those patterns.
even if it is real, i notice that people never even want to use their critical thinking skills to try to find ways to work around it, possibly change it? with all of the technological advancements, you'd think by now there'd be some non-genocidey way to get that accomplished.
The minute we start think policing in that way is the minute that those in power can rid of other things that are worth keeping, like willpower.
Off-hand this is making me think of films like Equilibrium.
i don't believe there's enough proof that humans are hard-wired to do negative things or positive things. if people used this cop out centuries ago, a lot of fucked up things would still be happening.
It's all across history across every background imaginable, that makes it hard to deny.
i wish more people would just be honest and admit they're too arrogant to think maybe just maybe "evolution" has better plans for the species than this mess we have right now.
Evolution doesn't make plans, evolution wings it and life trims the fat.
Daniella stated: source post
i'm convinced when most people use that phrase, the only purpose is to make an excuse for how fucked up the world is...
racism, rape, murder, government corruption, etc are considered things that will always be here because of "human nature".
even if it is real, i notice that people never even want to use their critical thinking skills to try to find ways to work around it, possibly change it? with all of the technological advancements, you'd think by now there'd be some non-genocidey way to get that accomplished.
i don't believe there's enough proof that humans are hard-wired to do negative things or positive things. if people used this cop out centuries ago, a lot of fucked up things would still be happening.
i wish more people would just be honest and admit they're too arrogant to think maybe just maybe "evolution" has better plans for the species than this mess we have right now.
The world is fucked up only and ONLY because of human NATURE.
Those things you listed, will always be here because of human nature. Racism comes from our need to be in tribes and shit. Its minor thought imo, but its still there. Rape and murder are clearly from nature... Government corruption is from greed, which is human nature.
Its natural to be selfish, its also natural to be a bit altruistic. And greed, rape is related to being selfish. Rape is extremely common in many animal species too. Murder? Natural life is based on murder, death and procreation. All living creatures on this planet want to procreate and not die. But many creatures kill other creatures to eat. So creatures will kill each other all the time. Within species too, because of selfishness and procreation. An individual will naturally want to spread his genes more then others and he will want to secure his own survival even at the cost of other creatures, because this is the law of the jungle. And here is where government comes in. We are social creatures and just like many species, we create a social structure that needs to be followed. And the higher you are in the structure, the better you will survive -> less death and more procreation.
Civilization is based on societal structure. But many things in civilization are based on intellectualism. Without that, a civilization will never be bigger then a tribe. We overcome our human nature all the time, its beautiful really. There is a non-genocidal way to accomplish what you want and its called education. But right now, the worlds education is as corrupt as my empathy. I will dare to say that this will be one of the greatest danger to human civilization that has ever existed. If you generate a generation, or maybe even 2, of absolute narcissistic, self-entitled, insane, pathetic excuses for human beings who are interested in controlling everyone, then expect ruin in all fields of life, unless you bitch slap them with a sucker punch 20 times. And no one is stopping them, because people think this is not happening, its an exaggeration or that the problem will magically go away. No it wont and now you will pay:
This is only the begging of a new darker age(consider the next clips i will post below /), but i see possible light in the future.
---
Humans are hard wired to do things. If that is positive or not is subjective. The question you should ask is, would it make sense logically in nature? And the correct answer is 'Yes'. A LOT(like i cant stress on how much) of fucked things happen ALL the time EVERYWHERE. Because people are afraid to let go of their human nature.
Evolution has no plans. We deserve to be arrogant. Because we are the top everything on this planet. And we will continue our existence into the endless time and space. But you need to try and prosper and progress and fight all those that oppose moving forward. Your petty life is just one of many. And thats wonderful and dreadful at the same time. You know, i find it amazing that so many people are indeed a mess. But the few people who are not, manage to cover everyone's asses. And so we continue to exist in a civilization build on sticks, stones and glue. The glue is all those people who manage to get over their human nature.
MissCommunication stated: source post
Daniella stated: source post
i wish more people would just be honest and admit they're too arrogant to think maybe just maybe "evolution" has better plans for the species than this mess we have right now.
I think I agree. With global warming as a human-made problem primarily based on over-consumption and greed, maybe we will simply evolve ourselves out of existence.
I think cockroaches will go extinct before humans do. An apocalyptic disaster will only kill off the stupid, weak and a lot of the rest. But the best of the best and the luckiest(also includes people with authority that didn't get there on their own) will live on. And then we will adapt and continue forward. The true danger to humanity is to stop advancing or an alien race lol. People will have a solution to global warming by the time its actually super dangerous. Some species may die, some areas might change forever, maybe many people will even die(tho i highly doubt this), but this is hardly an issue that will even slow us down as a species. As long as there are people who continue the research, the general awareness and public are irrelevant.
MissCommunication stated: source post
WW3 stated: source post
racism, rape, murder, government corruption, etc
racism isnt nearly as bad as the others. dont put them on the same list
says the conservative, white guy. lol
There is more racism towards whites in western countries now it seems. So he would know, if he had an important job or went to university. So actually, he wouldn't know from experience :P .
i think most people are ignorant about how there own genetics and emotions influence their everyday decisions
thinking, planning and logical clear decision making is not the norm. people are rules by their emotions and inner non-logical self, and what feels good today.
This is why high functioning sociopaths rule the world, emotional detachment from decision making. emotional decision making is often wrong.
war = tribal conflict, if you are not like me, i am suspicious and i don't like you. just look at the middle east, crazy tribal conflict going on for a long time.
rape,murder = bad messed up humans, the more humans on the earth, the more bad humans we will have, statistically speaking.
if 3% of people are bad, then 3% of 7.4 billion is a lot of bad people.
so human nature is animal nature, we are animals and are bound by very similar laws of nature as all animals are.
How about greed or to further ones self in society? I need more bananas than you so my status is higher up in the tribe.
we are just out of the trees, you may be expect too much from the human animal.