Sociopath Community

by Gypsy

Wow, I disagree with almost everything you said there Michael.

For one thing, this 'culture of life' you're talking about only exists in the west; in places like Japan, suicide is an honorable thing. Can you really say their society is any worse for it?

I can honestly say I've never had one of these 'vulnerable moments' you're talking about, and the only time I would ever consider suicide is if I was in the position of the 34yr old soccer mom. In that case I'd want to do it myself if I could, but if for some reason I left it too late, I'd like to think someone would have the compassion to do it for me.

Fact is, there are too many fucking people in the world. Decades ago you could rely on some kind of plague or a good old war to sort that problem out, but nowadays with the technology and medical advances we have people are just going to keep on living and living. And there's no dignity or happiness to be found in living just for the sake of it. Anyone who doesn't have the physical or mental capability to cope with modern life should be encouraged to off themselves, as much for their own good as for that of everyone else.

It doesn't have to be a negative thing. My dad has already picked the spot where he's gonna swim out to sea when he gets too old to drive, I think he finds it empowering that he can take control of life in this way. And if for some reason he leaves it too late then I'll be happy to help him end it. And it's not just cos I hate the fucker, it's cos I'm compassionate like that.

 I'll put this down to a weird coincidence and not karmic justice...

I'm on this medication that fucks with my mind more than four shots of absinthe, and exactly one week after I wrote this I was hit by what can only be described as a suicidal-feeling tsunami. 

The only thing like it I've ever heard of is when I watched this godawful film (no idea what it was called but I think it had Jake Gyllenall in it). The plot was basically that the plants were turning on people, and whenever anyone breathed in pollen they would have an irresistible urge to throw themselves under the nearest farm machinery (or whatever the most gruesome suicide method was at hand). I was just walking along the street thinking of nothing in particular when the emptiness of life just seemed to open up in front of me, like a manic depressive Nietzsche had got into my brain. It was an interesting thing to experience and observe, and while I certainly wouldn't want that particular experience again, it made me appreciate even more just what a powerful thing the brain is. 

This experience confirms my point of view. It is so easy to separate feelings from objective reality that I honestly can't get my head around why people don't do this. I know everyone's brain structure is different and all, but I'm beginning to think of depression sufferers in the same light as people who can't solve simple maths equations. 

This is now the third time I am attempting to post this and if it logs me out again I will throw my phone at the wall. 

by Gypsy

 

I'll put this down to a weird coincidence and not karmic justice...

I'm on this medication that fucks with my mind more than four shots of absinthe, and exactly one week after I wrote this I was hit by what can only be described as a suicidal-feeling tsunami. 

The only thing like it I've ever heard of is when I watched this godawful film (no idea what it was called but I think it had Jake Gyllenall in it). The plot was basically that the plants were turning on people, and whenever anyone breathed in pollen they would have an irresistible urge to throw themselves under the nearest farm machinery (or whatever the most gruesome suicide method was at hand). I was just walking along the street thinking of nothing in particular when the emptiness of life just seemed to open up in front of me, like a manic depressive Nietzsche had got into my brain. It was an interesting thing to experience and observe, and while I certainly wouldn't want that particular experience again, it made me appreciate even more just what a powerful thing the brain is. 

This experience confirms my point of view. It is so easy to separate feelings from objective reality that I honestly can't get my head around why people don't do this. I know everyone's brain structure is different and all, but I'm beginning to think of depression sufferers in the same light as people who can't solve simple maths equations. 

This is now the third time I am attempting to post this and if it logs me out again I will throw my phone at the wall. 

 Well, I think we've all felt things at some point that even determined us to act in certain ways, and then, later on, looking back, we can't understand how the hell we were so blind and consumed by smth that ridiculous, or think that much differently compared to "now". I think reality always goes through a very thick subjective filter, no matter what. Filters change over life, as we mature, learn new things, take chemicals that alter our brain workings... But what I'm very sure of, is that contradictory realities felt all very real and objective to me at different points in life. I disagree that separating reality from yourself is that easy, it often just feelt like you're doing it, but you're not.

If there's anything that we can learn from this is not to judge when other people think or act in ways we consider stupid and ridiculous. Depressive people, for examples, or dependent people like Mika. To them, what we condemn feels like the best and maybe the only choice/option. Maybe everything is a matter of filters after all, and we're all victims of our brain chemistry.

That said, I'm having a hard time doing that. I'm too stubborn that my current filter is definitely right, and often quick to judge others. It's a flaw of mine, but it's such an old one and it comes so natural, I don't think I'll ever be able to correct it.

What you're saying makes sense, but l don't like the idea of it. I have always prided myself on being able to look at things rationally, even emotions. And there must be an objective reality. I can think of only one situation at the moment where I know I'm not acting logically, but even that is through choice because I enjoy the feeling of it. 

by Gypsy

What you're saying makes sense, but l don't like the idea of it. I have always prided myself on being able to look at things rationally, even emotions. And there must be an objective reality. I can think of only one situation at the moment where I know I'm not acting logically, but even that is through choice because I enjoy the feeling of it. 

That's a bit ironic. Often we believe what we want to believe, and what we want to believe is often dictated by emotional reasons. Like... pride.

People who can't see how much emotions guide their lives are the most emotionally vulnerable people. Man can never be a fully logical being. Like a computer. Computers are programmed to do smth, have specific purposes. When you say someone is acting logical, it means he has a preset goal in his mind already. That goal is often dictated by emotional reasons. Wanting to live better/be more happy/achieve something so that your ego feels better for example, are all emotional reasons imo.

No humans can be like a computer, but look at the way animals behave. They aren't programmed in the way of a computer but they have basic instincts to survive and reproduce and fuck and eat and drink... And that's all life really is, but some people forget that and get caught up in things that aren't important. Thinking that some artificial feelings about artificial things are as important as physical hunger. I guess that's what I mean by thinking in a logical way. But then this is only how I see the world and others will think differently, so maybe it is all a matter of brain filters. 

Edvard: "Often we believe what we want to believe"

"People are stupid. Given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid. They can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool." - Wizard's First Rule.

I quote this accepting that I am a part of this "people". Truth is subjective, while absolute truth is practically a myth.


Gypsy: "They aren't programmed in the way of a computer but they have basic instincts to survive and reproduce and fuck and eat and drink... And that's all life really is, but some people forget that and get caught up in things that aren't important."

Animals have social interaction and species politics of a sort. They can focus on silly things like people do, but with less variety and in a less intelligently distracted fashion. They can learn how to behave based on what they are interacting with and even work against what instinct might drive them to do.

Now lizards and bugs (and some fish), those things are another story.

If and when I become terminally ill, I will  NOT allow people to wipe up my shit. I will NOT become a dementia case. Suicide is far more honorable and practical. Let those full of life live their lives without being dragged down by the dying. Unless, of course, someone is so brilliant and creative he/she keeps contributing something worth while.

"If and when I become terminally ill, I will  NOT allow people to wipe up my shit."

So you'd rather hoard your feces? What a strange thing to want to keep around, that can cause all sorts of infection.


"I will NOT become a dementia case. Suicide is far more honorable and practical."

Can't really guarantee that beyond a pre-emptive strike against yourself.

by Michael Prey

To prevent foolish youth suicides, we must reinforce the notion to them that suicide is not OK. We need to encourage at-risk individuals to seek support from loved ones and to be frank about their suicidal thoughts. We also need this to somehow work even if they really have no one to turn to. A culture of life has to be promoted, and this includes squashing notions of telling others to go die / kill themselves. We can mock the weak-willed all we want, but vulnerable moments come upon most humans at one point or another in their lifetimes. Especially the young and the elderly.

For that reason, I believe we simply can't support assisted suicide even for the tragically doomed. The inevitable spread of acceptance and tolerance would erode the "culture of life" and make deliberate death a way of life, in a century or two. It'd affect not only elderly assisted suicide, but also other matters of life and death. Imagine an elderly man being frightened for his life when he comes down with a cold, because he knows that his family might well press hard for him to sign off on being lawfully euthanized?

To be clear, we're not talking about "for the good of others" scenarios, such as a brave immobilized soldier staying behind with a loaded rifle as his comrades flee to live another day, or the infamous but fictional sacrifice of a zombie-infected person during a Zombie Apocalypse. We're talking about everyday, genuine and real civilian considerations. Perhaps a soccer mom being told on her 34th birthday that she was going to lose all mental capability within a couple years.

Humans need to prosper, while knowing that each and every other man and woman would help him or her in times of need. That is the ideal, and if someone is standing there asking to die - we should not eagerly oblige them if the situation is not compelling enough, lest we begin to find ourselves telling others to die for our sake.

Instead, we should be asking ourselves what we could have done to prevent that very plea for a mercy killing.

 

 Why is suicide not okay? I can see several situations in which suicide would be a viable option. I don't want to commit suicide and I never have wanted to, but I'd happily commit suicide under the following circumstances:

• I was facing a long prison sentence;
• I'd just published a book about my family, revealing their deepest, darkest secrets. In my case I'd actually choose exile over suicide, because exile would allow me to see their reactions to my book (albeit from afar) and I'd probably be able to put a few hits out on a few people I happen to strongly dislike by insinuating that they were responsible for the publication of the book, but it'd have to depend on how serious the threat of death was.  Knowing my family as I do, if I could evade them for long enough they'd get bored and hire a sharp shooter, in which case I'd get off easy. If they caught me early on, though, you'd probably find my body with its face cut up lying in a dumpster somewhere. Can we still get cyanide caps installed in Argentina? (That's a completely serious question, BTW.)
• I was diagnosed with a terminal illness, and I didn't want anyone to have to wait for me to die while I wasted their money and a huge chunk of their lives whilst shitting myself in my own bed. I'm happy to waste my own money, but not on a desperate desire to live. I'd rather die honourably;
• I'd disgraced myself so badly that my life could never be restored.

When you say that you can't support assisted suicide even for the tragically doomed, you go on to claim that this would spread acceptance and tolerance of euthanasia and, therefore, suicide. I just don't believe this. Suicide by a teenager and euthanasia by a terminally ill person are two completely different actions with, in all probability, different motives. I think that our society has an unhealthy fear of death. I nearly died once - it wasn't scary at all. I don't know why our society is so obsessed with "fighting" death. Death is inevitable. When death comes to me I want to greet it with dignity, not crying like a coward.

Western society seriously needs to revise its stance on death. I have seen too many people die crying about their regrets and doing some seriously fucked up shit to avoid death. I fail to see why death cannot be honourable. For me, there is nothing less honourable than hiding from death and pretending that you are in fact "fighting" it.

Appropriating Day of the Dead into typical American society ought to be the first step. Even if it doesn't change anything related to the mainstream stance on death held here, it'd at least let us have cool art and sugar skulls.