Sociopath Community

Spatial Mind said: 

Turncoat said: 

This isn't related to what I'm talking about, this is just yet more ad hom. 

You take this too personal, which is a flaw for any mod. You don't see me specifically getting weird about how you keep posting me or Jim's dox info, I respond on topic.

It's related. What else did I ever delete other than CP and images at the request of others ?

Do you really want me talking about that? 

I'll just sum it up as this: Typically mods just delete the [post that was taken down within the rules] in question, not the entire topic surrounding it. The [post that was taken down within the rules] was edited to no longer have that info in it, for weeks, yet the topic in it's entirety was still deleted in spite of how it was otherwise a prolific topic with much discussion inside that didn't actually have a reason itself to be taken down. 

When your ego was hurt, you deleted the topic that hurt it. It wasn't spam, it wasn't a dox anymore, it was just bad sentiments towards you and people otherwise laughing at you. You took down something purely because it hurt your feelings. 

Seriously, do you need more examples? 

And everyone knows your name, it's not like I'm doxxing you, and it's funny how you're bringing  Jim into this for some reason. 

You keep spreading his family info around, and in general I've watched you spread dox info like it's your job. 

You love to play the pity card about Alia doxing you, but it means nothing when you're playing the game as well. 

If I'm giving you a hard time, it's because I demand the truth. I don't like false.

You see, we have very different ideas not just for what truth is, but how to seek it and what constitutes it. Mine is discerned while yours is judged, making mine slower yet yours prone to emotional bias and anchoring. 

Turncoat said:

When your ego was hurt, you deleted the topic that hurt it. It wasn't spam, it wasn't a dox anymore, it was just bad sentiments towards you and people otherwise laughing at you. You took down something purely because it hurt your feelings.

 Such bullshit.  

Isn't it obvious to you that you're the only one making this claim ?

Get help dude.

Spatial Mind said: 

Turncoat said:

When your ego was hurt, you deleted the topic that hurt it. It wasn't spam, it wasn't a dox anymore, it was just bad sentiments towards you and people otherwise laughing at you. You took down something purely because it hurt your feelings.

 Such bullshit.  

Isn't it obvious to you that you're the only one making this claim ?

Get help dude.

There were witnesses, but if this is the reality you need... 

...then this serves as more self-demonstration. 

TC, the no pro-pedo content rule won't be perfect and it won't be black and white, mistakes will likely be made here and there and things will iron out as we go along... such is life, we're all human.. not robots. 

I understand the "common sense" thing. If I make a joke which just so happens to contain the subject of pedophilia, for example during banter in chat or when I'm trying to be witty, it's quite different from someone spamming unfunny and uncreative posts/threads. Everything can be joked about. People tend to forgive offense if it's funny. Additionally, this inadvertently punishes Cawk for being unfunny, which I in turn do find amusing because I know how much he hates being seen as a bad troll. 

That said, the rules do seem fair and I have a lot more faith in our current administration's judgment than in Luna's. The main thing keeping Luna's AC together is their collective determination to have a counterforum to ours. In effect, the roles have switched. I look forward to the friction generated by this. 

Xadem said: 

 

That said, the rules do seem fair and I have a lot more faith in our current administration's judgment than in Luna's. The main thing keeping Luna's AC together is their collective determination to have a counterforum to ours. In effect, the roles have switched. I look forward to the friction generated by this. 

all this Luna bashing. what exactly did she do to deserve all this? be human and get her feelings hurt? she's grown from these events. a smarter and more understanding person. i think she understands herself more than ever now. if anyone should be mad at her it should be me for her calling for my dox. you know how i hate weak shitty doxers. fucking weak bitches. dont get me started.

forgive and forget i say. understand that everyone can make mistakes. its how you handle the mistakes afterwards that counts. i mean damn, she came here and apologized. explained her human issues and has been a nice person.

i am looking forward to how this all plays out. i enjoy both sites. i don't see the need to choose one over the other. they both have value.

Lets actually play this out with things as they are, not how they could be, but as they are right now. 

We have two forums: Board Zone and Sociopath Community, Luna's forum and Meta's forum. Despite similarities to each other, history and context mean something and how they've decided to handle their own spaces are quite different. 

Lets play out a hypothetical, shall we? 

Lets say we go with Edvard and Cawk's idea of people going to Luna's forum instead of Meta's.

Factors: 

• Luna has admitted that her tools cannot stop spammers of any style beyond cleanup, after so many years she doesn't even try to hide it anymore as the admin, and has given up on it entirely until she can build... a robot. As is, Meta's forum is the closest we have to something that functions at all meanwhile as it actually has a way of keeping the "problem element" out, even if the kinks are being worked out of it still. Also as a general note, his tools are waaaaaaaaaay better than Luna's, I shudder to even consider in some alternate timeline using them again. 
  
  
• Our history with each admin cannot be ignored. Luna's rage quit and banned people on and off for years and all that she has going for her by people like Edvard's view is "Well... she always rehosts!". We've now seen Meta rehost, so this puts them of equal footing when you average the time spent versus number of admin rages in their forum's history. With time we'll see if this varies more (likely in Meta's favor for averages), but Luna even since rehosting as quote unquote "competition" for Meta has fallen into older patterns, having already shut down her forum twice since. 
  
  
• Luna's inconsistent about policy. We've seen this across history for years and even within the timeframe of Meta's forum. Luna can't even follow her own rules, let alone upkeep or enforce them, and she's in a more fragile state right now than any other point of her history with us. 
  
  
• Both forums have blacklist practices, don't pretend Meta's is worse because of his increased consistency. A lot of what had her forum working was over how much she ignored it, and that only works until the website itself is being exploited. She can't run a forum, at all, it has to have the means of running itself in spite of her to function. 
  
  
• You're just being silly and contrarian, as we've now grown to expect Billy. 

A scenario to spell out the current problem: 

A) Through one means or another, people move to Luna's forum from Meta's. For the sake of this hypothetical it doesn't matter if he's shut it down or simply fell into Garrosh's endgame. Even with Meta going full blown Nuke Button unappologetically there's many who will not return to Luna's forum other than to trash the place or to perform a cameo, myself included, from there simply being too much history and poor praxis on her part to do otherwise. Board Zone also has a pedo stank on it now from the majority it's current population's... inclinations, which apparently a lot of people around these parts are no longer a fan of. 

B) Cawk and Jim have people back, and often state that "it's not worth doing this without a proper audience". Jim likes quantity while Cawk likes quality, something that's lacking in both regards on Luna's forum right now, so it's rendered them both dormant from there no longer being a point to do it and as a means of allowing to be bait. When people return this will slowly nullify this hibernative state. 

C) Cawk and Jim have both demonstrated a lack of self control, and it's even worse now with their inability to coordinate as well. They have separate goals now with different views of each other, and even what's left of their tandem work is done with Cawk leading now so it's significantly shorter term, more showboasty, full of weird insane ideas Jim doesn't have to agree with (like Primalisms) and it's significantly sloppier. Jim's willingness to shut down SCMockingjay while Cawk wanted it kept is a clear sign that, even if Cawk wants BZ to stay up, Jim  may  will not listen and try to shut it down on his own anyway, while if Cawk changes his mind Jim's liable to either jump on board or be part of opposing Cawk as the issue as he has done multiple times in the past. 

D) One or both stop being dormant from the population growth and Meta's reduced importance, triggering people like Edvard. This is liable to make Cawk attack the website with Jim helping, or give the room for Ed to sabotage the forum to get rid of them once he has his "more ideal" people back at Luna's bosom (her words not mine). Edvard still hates "Pedo Talk", Cawk's only abandoned it because it has no use right now (and could find something else), and Luna still likes Edvard, would remod Edvard in a second, and won't call her situation with Cawk anything more than "a temporary ceasefire" while figuring she can use Jim to bring people like myself back. Cawk's even stated that Meta's his current "Edvard", so who do you think he'll be after next if not another "Ed-like"? When those two are willing to work together, it's a selfish and sneaky tandem act over their mutual issues with Meta. 

E) We'll be right back to where we were with no way to actually fix anything. As a matter of policy, Meta is still morphic right now, the forum's under development while trying to find something that works while Luna outright has given up and, much like her track history, only does developments for her website when she "feels like it". Going back to her will mean that not only can the "problem element" not be handled, but it'd be someone like Luna or Edvard trying to route it. Once BZ'd die, we'd have Cawk and Jim gloating about how "they're the ones who did it" while laughing at how people actually went back to her, seeing as their going back to her does not have the same undertones. 

TLDR; We go back to Luna, this place loses it's importance, the two "pedo posters" will have no reason to hibernate anymore, and we're right back at square one if not without a forum entirely with a significantly shrunken down population principally held.

As is, Luna can be a complete hypocrite once again but for once towards the greater good by having her Pedo forum with Edvard, Xena, Jim, and Cawk, able to speak their minds in a place they actually want to be in, while us having this place grants us two separate environments that can banter back and forth, the closest thing we have to "True Freedom" right now. 

The only actual "escape" is a third forum, otherwise we're stuck with this one or we go back to Luna's and watch it blow up. The only thing keeping her place going is a common enemy. 

Turncoat said: 

 

---

Lets say we go with Edvard and Cawk's idea of people going to Luna's forum instead of Meta's.

Factors: 

• Luna has admitted that her tools cannot stop spammers of any style beyond cleanup, after so many years she doesn't even try to hide it anymore as the admin, and has given up on it entirely until she can build... a robot. As is, Meta's forum is the closest we have to something that functions at all meanwhile as it actually has a way of keeping the "problem element" out, even if the kinks are being worked out of it still. Also as a general note, his tools are waaaaaaaaaay better than Luna's, I shudder to even consider in some alternate timeline using them again.
• ->i messed this up so will just add bullet items, i like bullet items
• -> both site have their pros and cons no doubt. i like features about both sites
• Our history with each admin cannot be ignored. Luna's rage quit and banned people on and off for years and all that she has going for her by people like Edvard's view is "Well... she always rehosts!". We've now seen Meta rehost, so this puts them of equal footing when you average the time spent versus number of admin rages in their forum's history. With time we'll see if this varies more (likely in Meta's favor for averages), but Luna even since rehosting as quote unquote "competition" for Meta has fallen into older patterns, having already shut down her forum twice since. 
  
  
• -> i watched the drama, both site admins are going through learning on how to deal with crazy people on their sites. i would expect this

 

• Luna's inconsistent about policy. We've seen this across history for years and even within the timeframe of Meta's forum. Luna can't even follow her own rules, let alone upkeep or enforce them, and she's in a more fragile state right now than any other point of her history with us.
• -> seems stable to me at this point, i bet she continues being stable. besides instability and chaos is one of the reasons im here. i expect a few things to go wrong and no one is perfect.
  
  
• Both forums have blacklist practices, don't pretend Meta's is worse because of his increased consistency. A lot of what had her forum working was over how much she ignored it, and that only works until the website itself is being exploited. She can't run a forum, at all, it has to have the means of running itself in spite of her to function. 
  
  
• -> right, blacklisting with time limits would be an idea. running a site for criminals does not look good on a resume so blacklisting is necessary. second or third chances would also be good
• You're just being silly and contrarian, as we've now grown to expect Billy. 
• -> i have been known to be the devil's advocate. only when i see a good debate:)

A scenario to spell out the current problem: 

A) Through one means or another, people move to Luna's forum from Meta's. For the sake of this hypothetical it doesn't matter if he's shut it down or simply fell into Garrosh's endgame. Even with Meta going full blown Nuke Button unappologetically there's many who will not return to Luna's forum other than to trash the place or to perform a cameo, myself included, from there simply being too much history and poor praxis on her part to do otherwise. Board Zone also has a pedo stank on it now from the majority it's current population's... inclinations, which apparently a lot of people around these parts are no longer a fan of. 

-> and thats okay, i know she trashed you pretty good and you her. maybe time will heal things up.



TLDR; We go back to Luna, this place loses it's importance, the two "pedo posters" will have no reason to hibernate anymore, and we're right back at square one if not without a forum entirely with a significantly shrunken down population principally held.

-> go to both, i dont see that people have to leave any site.

As is, Luna can be a complete hypocrite once again but for once towards the greater good by having her Pedo forum with Edvard, Xena, Jim, and Cawk, able to speak their minds in a place they actually want to be in, while us having this place grants us two separate environments that can banter back and forth, the closest thing we have to "True Freedom" right now.

The only actual "escape" is a third forum, otherwise we're stuck with this one or we go back to Luna's and watch it blow up. The only thing keeping her place going is a common enemy.

-> i dont see a third site as necessary, but im not seeing all the issues behind the scene

good post TC, i enjoyed reading this

Billy said:

Turncoat said:

Luna has admitted that her tools cannot stop spammers of any style beyond cleanup, after so many years she doesn't even try to hide it anymore as the admin, and has given up on it entirely until she can build... a robot. As is, Meta's forum is the closest we have to something that functions at all meanwhile as it actually has a way of keeping the "problem element" out, even if the kinks are being worked out of it still. Also as a general note, his tools are waaaaaaaaaay better than Luna's, I shudder to even consider in some alternate timeline using them again.

both site have their pros and cons no doubt. i like features about both sites

Nothing continues to stop you from going between both websites, and if either side starts forcing attendance to just their own forum, like Luna's "no advertising other websites" policy that crept in towards the end of her former reign, and how she largely handled the Kiwi drama and dramas like it, then that one'd be the one in the wrong. 

Our history with each admin cannot be ignored. Luna's rage quit and banned people on and off for years and all that she has going for her by people like Edvard's view is "Well... she always rehosts!". We've now seen Meta rehost, so this puts them of equal footing when you average the time spent versus number of admin rages in their forum's history. With time we'll see if this varies more (likely in Meta's favor for averages), but Luna even since rehosting as quote unquote "competition" for Meta has fallen into older patterns, having already shut down her forum twice since.

i watched the drama, both site admins are going through learning on how to deal with crazy people on their sites. i would expect this

She's been "learning" over the course of half a decade and gets consistently worse as both an admin and as a person each time.

A lot of what kept that website going were it's moderators, not her. 

Luna's inconsistent about policy. We've seen this across history for years and even within the timeframe of Meta's forum. Luna can't even follow her own rules, let alone upkeep or enforce them, and she's in a more fragile state right now than any other point of her history with us.

seems stable to me at this point, i bet she continues being stable.

"Temporary Ceasefire" begs to differ. 

besides instability and chaos is one of the reasons im here. i expect a few things to go wrong and no one is perfect.

That's fair, but I'm sure you can understand how others have views more in line with longevity?

We want "instability and chaos" to actually have some sustainability (the difference between undeath and death). Currently that sustainability is in the form of two separate websites, one for the "pedos" and one for "the not-so pedos", but ironically it became that way through this one's aimed acceptance of the content pushing people too far while their's became that from trying to fight it and giving up when she eventually realized that she can't win against Jim and Cawk, she just can't.

As I said, once this place either dies or becomes something beyond recognition, the ball will resume rolling and both will go down. This is why a third option must be brainstormed while we have this moment of questionable peacetime. That and contrary to SC's magic, nothing lasts forever, and that'd be one more insurance policy. 

Both forums have blacklist practices, don't pretend Meta's is worse because of his increased consistency. A lot of what had her forum working was over how much she ignored it, and that only works until the website itself is being exploited. She can't run a forum, at all, it has to have the means of running itself in spite of her to function.

right, blacklisting with time limits would be an idea. running a site for criminals does not look good on a resume so blacklisting is necessary. second or third chances would also be good

I think it could be done without blacklist practices, and that's largely been a complaint I uniformly carry about both websites.

Some level of "special treatment" is inevitable, to not do that is to be completely unbudging and rigid, but I firmly believe those could be handled through protocols as well similarly to my government's color coded warning system (Code Red, Code Green, etc).

That can allow it to remain about protocol without demonizing specific names, as blacklist practices are the gateway drug for popularity contesting, hugboxing, and losing the ideals that have served to make this place "not just some other forum". I include our practices for handling people like Dex as a part of that history, and it does make us different from "no rules" forums on the internet, as this odd mid-ground is what makes us "us", a mostly Libertarian force. 

You're just being silly and contrarian, as we've now grown to expect Billy.

i have been known to be the devil's advocate. only when i see a good debate:)

I'd say you do it more out of luls and opportunism (not really a complaint so much as a nitpick).

Your cause was the straw that broke the camel's back for me getting re-involved, which makes your current Luna-isms silly but otherwise true to the character you're establishing in the prior post. 

Through one means or another, people move to Luna's forum from Meta's. For the sake of this hypothetical it doesn't matter if he's shut it down or simply fell into Garrosh's endgame. Even with Meta going full blown Nuke Button unappologetically there's many who will not return to Luna's forum other than to trash the place or to perform a cameo, myself included, from there simply being too much history and poor praxis on her part to do otherwise. Board Zone also has a pedo stank on it now from the majority it's current population's... inclinations, which apparently a lot of people around these parts are no longer a fan of. 

and thats okay

Half a decade's too long, and she's shown herself incapable of becoming a better person through it all beyond PR tactics and an increased proclivity towards straight up lying.

She's all of her problems but worse, and almost all of her former ideals have been stripped from her. She really fits the Arthas model to a T, but I think you think she hasn't put on The Lich King helmet yet.

If we take her and I's beef out of it, we're still left with quite a mess that people are in no hurry to return to. They want a place where they can talk without "Big Sister" going batshit ballistico before destroying her own forum again, and we still need a place that won't just burn our history to the ground when their feelings are hurt. 

TLDR; We go back to Luna, this place loses it's importance, the two "pedo posters" will have no reason to hibernate anymore, and we're right back at square one if not without a forum entirely with a significantly shrunken down population principally held.

go to both, i dont see that people have to leave any site.

You also see no problem with the majority of what's going on and seem to be cool with everything falling apart.

Many of us are too nested into this to be that guy, and the position I'm in doesn't allow me to do that plainly and purely.

Billy said:

Turncoat said:

As is, Luna can be a complete hypocrite once again but for once towards the greater good by having her Pedo forum with Edvard, Xena, Jim, and Cawk, able to speak their minds in a place they actually want to be in, while us having this place grants us two separate environments that can banter back and forth, the closest thing we have to "True Freedom" right now.

The only actual "escape" is a third forum, otherwise we're stuck with this one or we go back to Luna's and watch it blow up. The only thing keeping her place going is a common enemy.

i dont see a third site as necessary, but im not seeing all the issues behind the scene

A third site lets Luna's remain a pedo haven while giving us another place to go if Meta for one reason or another is no longer desired as the case.

If everyone went back to Luna's instead without another option (or hovered Discord aimlessly in it's lack of permanency and quickly generated sections), we'd watch both die as everyone's expected roles leave hibernative states.