Sociopath Community

Buttered Toast said: 

Landlords are often actually property management businesses, or part of one, that are contractually obliged to provide certain services.  I honestly couldn't tell you how profitable it really would be.  I've seen many other businesses folding from the economic mismanagement and in different types of industries.  Their own costs are quite high; including the costs of living for their employees, etc.  I suppose it's too simple a view that it's like one individual is reaping all the rewards as some form of exploitation.  What is the argument against what nature has demonstrated as its modus operandi for as long as the food chain was invented?  What is the defense for prey in this ecosystem?

It's only good when the property is already paid off and there are multiple properties.

I have a lady friend who rents out 6 or so properties. It's all vanity. She's basically letting the leaseholders pay off the properties. During the pandemic she had a few issues with some lease holders. Then there are income taxes and property taxes and maintenance fees. It's a 25-30 year horror show.

It's complete bs and I already explained it. Some old rich landlord senator did not make my rtx 5050 and neither did the nvidia ceo and neither of them delivered it. So no, my gpu was not made by capitalists, the labor was exploited by capitalists. By definition, it was made by labor, but you're being disingenuous and ridiculous.

Dragoonback said: 

It's complete bs and I already explained it. Some old rich landlord senator did not make my rtx 5050 and neither did the nvidia ceo and neither of them delivered it. So no, my gpu was not made by capitalists, the labor was exploited by capitalists.

 Jensen Huang founded Nvidia. They produce the most advanced GPU's. Capitalism must be organized. They own the means to get things done. Tiy can cry about the laborer being the end all say all, but really they aren't. They do not design chips. Most of the work is done by a machine and the rest is general cookie cutter stuff. 

GPU construction is outsourced to other companies who do make money off of Nvidia's architectures.

Yes. They outsource manufacturing to other capitalist corporations, this is why we see so many different versions and cooling solutions for the same GPU's.

The GPU cannot be done for free. And the reason why everyone can have one, and the reason why everyone can use Ai, is because of Capitalism. 

This is very easily looked up.

Capitalism isn't defined by paying workers, producing goods, or organizing labor. Those exist independently of capitalism. Capitalism is defined by private ownership of the means of production, allowing owners to extract profits from the labor and production of others without necessarily contributing productive labor themselves. You're conflating production with ownership, and commercial availability with universal access.

Dragoonback said: 

Capitalism isn't defined by paying workers, producing goods, or organizing labor. Those exist independently of capitalism. Capitalism is defined by private ownership of the means of production, allowing owners to extract profits from the labor and production of others without necessarily contributing productive labor themselves. You're conflating production with ownership, and commercial availability with universal access.

There is no separation of, paying workers, producing goods and organizing labor from Capitalism.

No no no. That would only work for your argument. AND it really isn't the case with EVERYTHING you own.  

Capitalism is still capitalism even if the entire workforce were robots. 

No shit, the business owns all of their hardware and buy materials for production. It couldn't work any other way.

And of course the organization is owned and operated.

...

Gemini said:

If you remove paying workers (wage labor), producing goods (commodity production), and organization (enterprise coordination), capitalism itself cannot exist.
Those three elements are not just additions to capitalism; they are its structural engine. If you strip them away, what you are left with is not a functioning economy, but the raw legal and political prerequisites of capitalism—private property rights and capital ownership.

 

## Core Features of Capitalism

* Private Ownership of the Means of Production: Factories, land, tools, and raw materials are owned by private individuals or corporations ("capitalists") rather than the state or the workers themselves. 

* Wage Labor: Workers do not own the tools or the final products. Instead, they sell their time and effort to an employer in exchange for a monetary wage. 

* Organization through Firms and Markets: Production is organized inside firms (businesses), and goods, services, and labor are bought and sold in competitive markets. 

* Profit Motive: The primary driver of production and economic organization is the accumulation of capital and the generation of profit for private owners, rather than direct state planning or production strictly for personal use. 

 Perfect.  Seems like the private ownership part gets under your skin Dragoon. But seriously, you should have no right to just walk into a facility and help yourself to whatevers stored in there without paying. There are mouths to feed and more costly production to do and selling output is important to keep the gears turning.   

Also remind us what motivated reasoning is.

Gemini said:

Motivated reasoning is a cognitive process where people unconsciously skew their thinking, information search, and evaluation of evidence to arrive at a preferred or predetermined conclusion.

## How It Works

* Directional goals: Instead of seeking the objective truth, your brain is driven by a subconscious desire to protect an identity, soothe Cognitive Dissonance (mental discomfort from conflicting beliefs), or defend a social group. 

* Unequal scrutiny: You apply high-level skepticism, nitpick flaws, or invent counterarguments for facts that challenge your view, while accepting supporting claims at face value with little to no questioning.

* Feeling rational: To the person doing it, the logic feels completely sound and objective—the bias operates largely outside of conscious awareness. 

## Key Differences from Related Concepts

* Confirmation bias: The tendency to passively notice or seek out info that confirms what you already believe. Motivated reasoning goes a step further: you actively construct, twist, and defend arguments to justify the outcome you want. 

* Accuracy vs. Defense: While some reasoning is driven by an honest desire to be right, motivated reasoning is usually driven by a defensive desire to protect a core belief, political identity, or ego. 

## Common Examples

* Health choices: Continuing a habit like smoking or skipping exercise while aggressively rationalizing why the health risks "don't apply" to you. 

* NIMBYism: Opposing a housing development or public utility strictly because it is "not in my backyard," then hunting for environmental or traffic arguments to justify the stance. 

* Politics and tribalism: Dismissing economic data or scandals when they involve your preferred political party, while treating the exact same data as proof of corruption when the other party does it.

## How to Guard Against It

* Pause during strong emotions: Intense feelings like anger or defensiveness are usually a warning sign that your brain is trying to protect a conclusion.

* Play devil's advocate: Force yourself to seriously articulate the strongest possible case for the side you disagree with.

* Look at your own standards: Ask yourself if you would accept the exact same evidence or logic if it pointed to the opposite conclusion. 

 

.

.

.

Capitalism is good. 

You're still confusing economic production with capitalism. Paying workers, manufacturing goods, and organizing labor are activities that can exist under different economic systems. Capitalism is one particular arrangement of ownership and control over those activities. The fact that these activities are necessary for capitalism doesn't establish that capitalism is necessary for them.

Your own Gemini quotation explicitly distinguishes private ownership from wage labor, commodity production, and enterprise coordination. Those are different concepts, even when they coexist within the same system.

And yes, capitalism could theoretically exist with an entirely automated workforce. That actually reinforces my argument. If labor is performed entirely by machines, the distinction between who performs production and who owns its output becomes even more obvious.

"It couldn't work any other way" is an assertion, not an argument. Equipment and resources can be owned by workers collectively, cooperatives, public institutions, or other organizations. None of those arrangements require people to walk into facilities and steal their contents. You're attacking a position I never expressed.

Creating jobs and distributing goods are not exclusive achievements of capitalism, either. They are functions of economic organization. Whether private ownership is the best arrangement for those functions is a separate question.

As for motivated reasoning, repeatedly citing an AI chatbot doesn't demonstrate that you've understood its arguments. Your own definition describes the tendency to selectively accept evidence that supports a preferred conclusion. Declaring "capitalism is good" after repeatedly assuming that capitalism is the only possible method of production is hardly a demonstration of objective reasoning.

You keep pointing to things capitalism currently does as though their existence proves capitalism is necessary for doing them. That's precisely the conclusion you haven't established.