Sociopath Community

-_-

Cx3's friend dude.

Spatial Mind said: 

-_-

Cx3's friend dude.

 I mean that's your fault for repeating the label of the description that I just said along with your history of false diagnoses/labeling people. There's still no proof they have BPD.

I can only work with the 11 symptoms he listed.

Later on he'll be back with not just symptoms, but experiences. Soul crushing experiences.

Borderline Personality Disorder takes the throne of Cluster B personalities. If she is this, he's going to have to be careful. She already has him running around trying to figure her out. It can turn into an obsession.

There's a condition listed in the DSM manual called "Folie a deux" which is French for Madness of two. 

This is when one's madness impacts the other. cx3 is already on the path of trying to find out what the fuck is up with his "friend". Likely to hot and cold behavior. 

He's already narrowed down to the 4 cluster b categories, one of them being APD, which is thee, sociopath diagnosis. Borderline personality disorder is comorbid with them all. While they are not sociopaths, they can deal damage like one to another person. 

If cx3 wasn't entertaining the idea of hooking up with that person, he wouldn't be going through the trouble of trying to solve them. 

A borderline can also display signs of AvPD while will explain the arms length relationship, and they are also bipolar. While in mania a borderline turns into a beautiful person, very upbeat the sunny, that's the version he'd be prone to falling for. She'll do a 180 and will have the capacity to distance herself in the blink of an eye.

Set boundaries before she does I say. Don't be easy with that person either, the push pull dynamic will be endless. 

Dragoonback said: 

"High-functioning autism" is an older informal label, so I'd be careful about treating it as a distinct category. Someone can be autistic while being highly verbal, socially active, intellectually sophisticated, and extroverted. Autism isn't necessarily being shy, socially isolated, or emotionally flat.

I also think some of these traits are being evaluated too normatively. I don't necessarily see rigidity or limited interests as deficits. I have autistic traits like that myself, and I think they can be useful because they let me concentrate my resources and limit my exploitability.

My views on samsara reinforce that. I don't generally see dependence on other people, mutual gratification, or constantly accommodating other people's desires as inherently desirable. Being less socially flexible can therefore be useful if it reduces attachment and dependence.

Of the traits listed, the one I'd actually criticize from my perspective is that he despises being alone. Comfort with solitude seems much more compatible with detachment and ultimately moksha than needing constant interpersonal contact.

I also don't necessarily see the lack of apologies as a negative. An apology doesn't undo what happened, so unless it is accompanied by an actual change in behavior, I see it as mostly performative. It can function more as a ritual of submission or reassurance, feeding into the other person's desire for acknowledgment, control, or emotional validation. If someone actually did something wrong, changing the behavior seems more meaningful than verbally performing remorse.

Off topic but IMO apologies do hold weight as an assurance to another that a behavior will change in the future. It also doubles as an acknowledgement not only of the other person's grievance but a validation of that grievance.
That being said, yes, you are right. I don't mean to be to rigid, but we all love to place people into neat little boxes labeled accordingly even if the color of the post it notes blend in together.

  Per Spatial's experiences request. First off, this is a guy I've been friends with for about a year and a half. He used to anchor himself through Christianity but our arguments over various things relating to it has whittled his belief. He is my only friend that I speak with regularly. Over the past couple of months I have had thoughts that the only reason why we're friends is because I am a good listener and make him feel seen. 

My friend and I drink online often. Many nights start out the same. We meet one on one and he tells me something that he recently learned, something that has happened in his life, or about his relationships with other people to start out the night. I am inquisitive by nature and ask a couple of questions and he rambles. A quiet looms in the room after he has told me about anything on his mind and to him the conversation is over. A quick "what did you do today?" is asked. I reply, "reading", "working out", "speaking to family", he goes "nice" and we move on to drink with others. The first 30 minutes is relatively quiet, usual chit-chat and then the alcohol does the talking. Someone at the table recently brought up that they're majoring in psychology so I strike up a conversation about what brought them into the field, their favorite thing to research etc. It was quite a pleasant exchange until my friend butts in and starts debating them on Freud and the basis of psychology in general. The topic at hand really isn't the issue to me, we have these discussions all the time about the validity of psychology as a science. The frustrating element about this is that my discussion was derailed and my friend got into a yelling match in no time. Friend gets blocked, whatever.

We've had plenty of discussions about this and nothing changes. Every time I get into another conversation with someone that isn't him, it's like he makes it a priority to derail it so I can focus on him. 

Later on in the night after 4 beers or so - we get into politics heavily debating people who don't have the time to develop a concrete idea of what they believe in. It really is stupid fun to dunk on people that have no clue what they're talking about. These arguments too are orchestrated by yelling, typically escalated by my friend. However occasionally we will find someone that bats up to par and it is clear that the opponent has spent a considerable time honing in their arguments. Minutes become hours. I'll occasionally make a retort to which my friend picks up on, but he's mainly doing all the talking and it's hard to get a word in when he is. He speaks over others constantly and I don't have the heart in the moment to tell him that the only reason he's "winning" is because he isn't letting the other side speak. He gets blocked because of the constant yapping, mistakes it for achievement, and that's that. 

I've also told him about this flaw to which he acknowledges but nothing ever changes.

We recently were talking about operating systems with another person and somehow the topic of Linux vs. Microslop was brought up. My friend says that more systems worldwide utilize microsoft than Linux and I simply stated no, that's not true. Most servers worldwide run on Linux and the majority aren't even enterprise. Sheepishly he looks it up and changes the topic entirely. Later on, we were discussing technologies from various countries, which ones have contributed most to modern society etc. He mentions English computer scientist Tim Berners-Lee and I mention Finland's stake in SSH and advancements of early SMS messaging IRC. He had a contention to one of the factoids that escapes my memory. After looking it up, again the topic is pushed towards something that he knows more about. What's frustrating about this is that he doesn't seem keen on questioning why he was wrong and refuses to concede. I understand that to most intelligent people, when they're wrong they ask questions! I'm a bit annoyed that whenever I am wrong, I seek to understand and he views it as a blow to the ego. I suspect this limitation is because of some power dynamic he has in his head.

For the interactions I've had with others that he somehow manages not to derail because of his disinterest in the topic or lack of knowledge, he will feel betrayed (as long as he is not involved in the conversation). He will be jealous of even the notion of speaking with another person that is not him. He has told me repeatedly that one of his biggest fears is for me to find another friend and indirectly uses this fear as an attempt to control who I speak with. He has threatened, albeit vaguely, that he would probably kill himself if I found another person. This I do not tolerate and never hesitate to push back against but the existence of this attempt of control has eroded my trust of him privately.

Dragoon mentioned something about identity too.
A couple of months ago my friend carved a large cross into his chest with a knife after we had a quarrel. I'm pretty sure he has only shown me. This was done for a few reasons to my understanding. He wanted to engrave a sense of identity and belonging into his flesh. He wanted me to see how much I was making him suffer. He never stated explicitly that I was hurting him, and when asked about it further he got all withdrawn and sullen. I think this was to instate some kind of permanent anchor so I would feel bad for him? It doesn't get brought up much but when it does, he speaks of it as a matter-of-fact thing that happens to people, like your car breaking down.  

All of this may seem like a nothing burger especially with what some of you have seen online but I'm concerned for him. As for the examples, they are culminations of many, many nights together and I regard them not as events but constants. 

Some other characteristics that he has told me or I observe:

He thinks that he is better than everyone around him and at times has delusions believing that he's one of the smartest human beings on the planet. Yet, at the same time hates himself consistent with narcissistic types.

He is detrimentally drawn to seek attention and validation from other people, roughly describing it as a crutch for lacking internal regulation.

He will get incredibly frustrated with you very fast if the task requires cooperation and will hurl insults over the most menial of things or disagreements.

At emotionally vulnerable times he crumbles in spectacular fashion and relinquishes all power for a moment.

He is always the center of attention.

He cannot stand being wrong.

He likes to see others (not me) weak so he can appear strong.

The constant redirecting of conversations toward himself, competing with others, and especially the jealousy over you talking to other people seem more significant than any one isolated behavior.

I understand your point about apologies being an assurance of acknowledgement. I just don't put much value in the verbal ritual itself. If the behavior changes, that's what actually matters. Otherwise, an apology can become a way of providing satisfaction. I'd also separate the behaviors from the explanations for them. It's clear that he repeatedly does these things, but it's harder to know whether the underlying cause is ego, insecurity, attachment, or something else.

I think it might also be worth cutting alcohol out entirely, especially since you sometimes seem to build plans or schedules around online drinking. I'm not saying you drink constantly or that alcohol explains everything, but even relatively small amounts can alter judgment, inhibition, emotional responses, and decision-making. Removing it would at least eliminate one variable and let you see what his baseline behavior is actually like.

I'd also experiment with other changes before trying to fit everything into a diagnostic category. I've noticed even small changes like timing my showers and brushing my teeth can change my perception of time and how I organize things. Sometimes changing the conditions around a behavior can reveal more than immediately trying to explain it.

Personally, I'd consider his inability to tolerate being alone more concerning than his lack of apologies. Comfort with solitude seems much more compatible with detachment and moksha, or simply moving on with life, than needing constant attention from another person. And if you don't actually need the friendship, I think it's reasonable to limit or end contact if it continues causing more problems than it solves. There's no inherent obligation to maintain a relationship indefinitely. Sometimes continued contact gives both people more opportunities to reinforce the same patterns than opportunities to improve them. If the relationship isn't necessary, avoiding further deterioration can be more practical than continually trying to repair it.

cx3 said:

Some other characteristics that he has told me or I observe: He thinks that he is better than everyone around him and at times has delusions believing that he's one of the smartest human beings on the planet. Yet, at the same time hates himself consistent with narcissistic types. He is detrimentally drawn to seek attention and validation from other people, roughly describing it as a crutch for lacking internal regulation.

He will get incredibly frustrated with you very fast if the task requires cooperation and will hurl insults over the most menial of things or disagreements.

At emotionally vulnerable times he crumbles in spectacular fashion and relinquishes all power for a moment.

He is always the center of attention. He cannot stand being wrong. He likes to see others (not me) weak so he can appear strong.

This actually makes me think it's better not to get too invested in figuring out exactly which trait or disorder is responsible. If someone is constantly looking for ways to redirect criticism back at you, trying to reason through every accusation can just turn into an endless exchange of egos.

I think acknowledging that you're not perfect can make it easier not to feed into that. If you're invested in proving that you're smarter, more reasonable, or otherwise better than them, you've given them something they can challenge and exploit. Diminishing your own ego gives them less to work with.

So rather than trying to circumvent every counterargument or prove who's right, I'd focus more on what behavior you're actually willing to tolerate. You don't have to win every interaction for your position to be valid, and sometimes disengaging is more useful than continuing a discussion where every point can just be redirected back at you.

Very insightful. Thank you for the perspective. 

That's very nice.

That is either a Cerebral Narcissist, ot an Antagonistic Narcissist. Just know he's something like that. He'll be toxic to others in other ways giving him a narcissistic label that will vary person to person.

Your attention is his supply. The carving of the cross, that was a statement of divinity, his divinity. He does love you the way someone like him would. You're friend is fucked up and you know it would devastate him to lose you, or rather, lose what you offer, which is an ear. Which is how he sees you, but he also respects you as a person. He knows how to not fumble you at this point in time. His mask has already slipped, he was awesome when you first met, then it got stranger, more mental. When a narcissist belittles everyone but you, you're his "Spock" if you will. The guy who regulates and keeps him in check. His peace of mind cause you don't corner him when it's time to confront his lack of contemplation when wrong. Instead you suppress your annoyance where others wouldn't. 

About Linux being the most used OS across all servers that make the internet. Yes.

In the 90's Windows NT flipped Unix, that I recall, so I'm guessing that information either stuck, or your friend is maybe in his 40's or older. Just a guess. Maybe the information about Windows being the most used for servers solidified and still gets passed around. I had to confirm your claim so I too learned something. This is probably because Windows NT has aged, plus Linux is more reliable and runs stable. If you want to stroke his ego, tell him he was right, but things changed when "we" ( key word ) wasn't looking. ( If you say while "he" wasn't looking he'd feel offended, so drag yourself into the boat of learning with him. You must walk next to him, and never in front. Either he leads, or you're on the same level. )

It's more about him than it is you, but you have to focus on you if you're to handle him. No cope, but handle. From the sound of it you're able to.

When he's wrong, you'll both know, but do keep in mind he does suffer as his pride is the tape that holds his fragile ego in place, and without his ego... Well. It's almost scary what happens when a narcissist's ego shatters, it could become very hostile.

Do not let his dismissiveness of being wrong drag you down, he really needs you to let it slide. Let that be the extent of your confrontation unless he wants to escalate it. It's not you its him. You don't require the same validations to function as he does. He will recognize you, and he already does, as he isn't aware of your surppressed frustration about that. He sees you as you present yourself. You're not easily replaceable.

Belittling others is his way, because everyone else, with the exception of you, will reject him at some point as they always do, so he needs a head start and have 1 foot out the door whenever the rejections occur so he's ready to not get shattered. 

You should get to know him better when sober, you probably do at this point. Maybe he was sober when he carved the cross on his chest. That statement. With all due respect he most likely is still religious. and simply refrains from discussing it with you since you're an atheist, I wouldn't be surprised if he ever told you he wants to be a priest. It's been said a narcissist will become a priest because they love talking in front of crowds and the priest gets to be on the megaphone 1 hour at a time for multiple mass sessions once or twice a week for thousands of people. 

The narcissist likes people coming to them and asking for advice and prayers. This is a powerful position and a very rewarding experience for a narcissist when people come to you when they seek God.

He wants the power, I can't stress it enough how he carved that on his chest, and he did it for you to see. He doesn't know how to debate you in terms of God's existence and being unable to show you would be an annoyance to him considering he HAS to be right, and HAS to be seen as right. That is one passionate motherfucker. ( On a side note I'd debate your ass about that. And on a spiritual note, what you're doing, looking after your friend, makes the Lord smile. As an atheist you would at least have a feeling you're collecting points for that. Moving on. )

Beware of any fallout with that guy. He loves you too bad bro. His capacity to hate you will be as great if you hurt him without reconciliation. You're the Spok. His Vulcan. His regulator. If you destroy him, he'll really be destroyed. One if his fantasies with you, is for Christ to appear before you both. Try saying that to him when he's sad, and watch his mood do a 180.

I think I know. I have 2 of those. 

Spatial Mind said: 

That's very nice.

That is either a Cerebral Narcissist, ot an Antagonistic Narcissist. Just know he's something like that. He'll be toxic to others in other ways giving him a narcissistic label that will vary person to person.

Your attention is his supply. The carving of the cross, that was a statement of divinity, his divinity. He does love you the way someone like him would. You're friend is fucked up and you know it would devastate him to lose you, or rather, lose what you offer, which is an ear. Which is how he sees you, but he also respects you as a person. He knows how to not fumble you at this point in time. His mask has already slipped, he was awesome when you first met, then it got stranger, more mental. When a narcissist belittles everyone but you, you're his "Spock" if you will. The guy who regulates and keeps him in check. His peace of mind cause you don't corner him when it's time to confront his lack of contemplation when wrong. Instead you suppress your annoyance where others wouldn't. 

About Linux being the most used OS across all servers that make the internet. Yes.

In the 90's Windows NT flipped Unix, that I recall, so I'm guessing that information either stuck, or your friend is maybe in his 40's or older. Just a guess. Maybe the information about Windows being the most used for servers solidified and still gets passed around. I had to confirm your claim so I too learned something. This is probably because Windows NT has aged, plus Linux is more reliable and runs stable. If you want to stroke his ego, tell him he was right, but things changed when "we" ( key word ) wasn't looking. ( If you say while "he" wasn't looking he'd feel offended, so drag yourself into the boat of learning with him. You must walk next to him, and never in front. Either he leads, or you're on the same level. )

It's more about him than it is you, but you have to focus on you if you're to handle him. No cope, but handle. From the sound of it you're able to.

When he's wrong, you'll both know, but do keep in mind he does suffer as his pride is the tape that holds his fragile ego in place, and without his ego... Well. It's almost scary what happens when a narcissist's ego shatters, it could become very hostile.

Do not let his dismissiveness of being wrong drag you down, he really needs you to let it slide. Let that be the extent of your confrontation unless he wants to escalate it. It's not you its him. You don't require the same validations to function as he does. He will recognize you, and he already does, as he isn't aware of your surppressed frustration about that. He sees you as you present yourself. You're not easily replaceable.

Belittling others is his way, because everyone else, with the exception of you, will reject him at some point as they always do, so he needs a head start and have 1 foot out the door whenever the rejections occur so he's ready to not get shattered. 

You should get to know him better when sober, you probably do at this point. Maybe he was sober when he carved the cross on his chest. That statement. With all due respect he most likely is still religious. and simply refrains from discussing it with you since you're an atheist, I wouldn't be surprised if he ever told you he wants to be a priest. It's been said a narcissist will become a priest because they love talking in front of crowds and the priest gets to be on the megaphone 1 hour at a time for multiple mass sessions once or twice a week for thousands of people. 

The narcissist likes people coming to them and asking for advice and prayers. This is a powerful position and a very rewarding experience for a narcissist when people come to you when they seek God.

He wants the power, I can't stress it enough how he carved that on his chest, and he did it for you to see. He doesn't know how to debate you in terms of God's existence and being unable to show you would be an annoyance to him considering he HAS to be right, and HAS to be seen as right. That is one passionate motherfucker. ( On a side note I'd debate your ass about that. And on a spiritual note, what you're doing, looking after your friend, makes the Lord smile. As an atheist you would at least have a feeling you're collecting points for that. Moving on. )

Beware of any fallout with that guy. He loves you too bad bro. His capacity to hate you will be as great if you hurt him without reconciliation. You're the Spok. His Vulcan. His regulator. If you destroy him, he'll really be destroyed. One if his fantasies with you, is for Christ to appear before you both. Try saying that to him when he's sad, and watch his mood do a 180.

I think I know. I have 2 of those. 

I think you're reading quite a lot into his behavior that isn't actually established by what CX3 described. The cross being a "statement of divinity," him secretly wanting to become a priest, or Christ appearing to the two of them are all speculative interpretations. The fact that he carved a cross into himself after an argument is significant, but we don't actually know everything it meant to him.

I also think you're somewhat romanticizing the narcissistic framing. Saying "he loves you too bad," that CX3 is his "Spock," that he's not easily replaceable, and that he'll be "destroyed" if CX3 leaves turns dependence and emotional instability into something almost special or profound. If someone needs another person to regulate their emotions and becomes jealous or controlling when that person interacts with others, I don't think that should automatically be interpreted as unusually deep affection.

The advice to suppress annoyance, stroke his ego, and "walk next to him, never in front" also seems like a recipe for reinforcing the dynamic. If someone has to constantly manage another person's ego to prevent them from falling apart, that's already a pretty dysfunctional relationship.

I agree that CX3 should probably focus on what they can control rather than trying to diagnose him, but that also means they don't have to become his regulator. If the friendship only works when CX3 carefully avoids challenging him, that's worth considering on its own regardless of what label fits him.