nope, its about 1. abraham knowing god enough to know his son would be fine
Being told to kill him is a funny way of showing it, even if justified in advance that his son's soul would go to Heaven or whatever.
It's still murder, if you were given Abraham's situation would you find it this easy to do?
no its not because he knew he wasnt gonna die :P
So now your reasoning is that he followed God's will to kill his firstborn... over knowing if he'd live or die? 🤨
The family has a history of sacrificing lambs who they haven't seen come back from the dead, I don't see much presented here to give Abraham the idea that killing his son won't kill him. There is no indication in the texts that Abraham knew his son would not die, if anything it indicates that he would have gone through with it if not stopped by an angel.
His will was not challenged, he didn't hesitate, it took an outside force stopping him and this is who the reader is meant to model off of. If Abraham could go through this entire trial unscathed than he by conventional standards would be treated as having some kind of disorder.
Again, if a human gave this same exercise it'd look insane.
i already explained the differences....... repeating yourself over and over and over is annoying at this point
You mean when you said:
thats not what i was saying, it wasnt about obedience it was about trust me even when things eem bleak and in the end it goes well
This doesn't stop it from being obedience, he is still obeying God's orders out of said trust to kill his son, and the moral of the story is to trust the force telling you to do it in hopes He changes His mind, or accept that your sacrifice was Good over how God can't commit an evil act, supposedly, according to His own source material.
The moral to me looks like "Do as I say and don't ask questions for cool prizes later, and hope it's not actually Satan playing pretend". At least with most of the stories in there there is a clear cut code that fits a set of laws, but this story subverts it in such a way as to give Satan a vantage point to trick people.
in a different context where abraham does not know or understand god, abraham would not have done what he did most likely because he would have suspected god would hurt his son.
I feel like this test could be done significantly less traumatically, God's All Knowing.
you seem to have not read anything stop repeating yourself fifty times and isolating part of what im saying specifically to not look stupid doing that shit
I did read it, but by my comprehension at least you aren't answering the questions enough to dispel them which forces me to ask again for more elaboration in hopes that asking it in a better way will give answers closer to what's being sought. Can you explain it to me like I'm five so that it isn't potentially unclear, or requote the portion that I seem to be disregarding to make it more clear what you mean? Just saying solely "I said that already" doesn't get me any closer to the answer, hence why people like me bother to reword things to be more clear in the first place instead of just creating a stall.
I am otherwise attempting to have a discussion over it, but you keep giving what look to me like answers that are too simple towards complicated subject matter. Even questioning how Abraham took this, either to question Abraham as a person or to question the authoring that ignores his feelings, seems to be ignored in favor of telling me "It's fiiiine". I can't just pretend God's actions don't demonstrate insane amounts of collateral damage over how His source material doesn't go into detail about it, and telling me "It's a trust exercise" makes it look even worse. To me it makes more sense to follow actions that have a clear reason behind them, rather than follow orders because 'they said so' like many an abusive parent.
How am I, someone who has no reason to believe in God's intentions, supposed to think everything He does is Good without an explanation other than Him giving prizes after the fact? I don't see God as Good, I see God as Powerful to the point of being unable to relate to the weak. A lot of your reasoning towards me is couched in pre-existing faith, the idea that it's totally normal to obey orders if the thing is stronger than us if we're repeatedly told it's for our own good, and then it's reasoned to me that He is Good because He is the strongest and created all of this..?
I've heard of abusive people give the same sort of logic, like when Spatial thinks he must hurt you for your own good, and with no respect for God I don't see "You just gotta trust him" as reason enough, especially when so many casualties end up brought down over simple mistakes or over asking realistic questions worthy of doubt.
Again I'm forced to imagine similar relationships as comparisons, as this is to me as if a parent told their five year old child to do the same things over how the parent has superior power and knowledge, to just trust their judgement obediently instead of learning to think for themselves, to question if perhaps their parent doesn't have the right idea in spite of superior credentials.
repeating yourself a second time in a different way for the sake of argument
stop reeating yourself you said this twice
no, i already explained this, at this point a lot of this is just you repeating yourself over and over and over again in different ways
You don't seem to be getting my overall question.
you dont seem to be getting my overall answer.
Could you please have the patience to explain it more clearly then, as even re-reading is not answering it at all for me in a meaningful way as far as I can tell.
You said it's about trust, but I cannot split that from obedience over how God didn't just say to believe Him. All answers given about why to follow Him tend to be simplified on insane benchmarks of faith.
To me, it'd be like if an alien ship descended from space to our planet with the idea of doing villainous shit flooding the world or spreading horrible plagues with people accepting it as fine because the aliens told us it was. I can't help but harken to materials like Twilight Zone's episode "To Serve Man", and the horrors of what a deity could do with their own idea of the Milgram Experiment.
The only rational explanation I can think of for many of God's behaviors would be over if He has gone through a history of not understanding humans to the point of doing experiments on them like humans in turn have done on animals. This however would negate the idea of Him being All Knowing, which when paired with Omnipotence should have Him understand us well enough to not need to do any of this.
When you consider the powers God has, He needs to be held more accountable. The only reason He is not is over how nothing matches His strength, which gives me the impression that power = goodness, justifying holy men to do terrible things in His name over how the texts will have his followers ask less questions over being told to blindly follow commands.
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