Sociopath Community

JimRichards said: 

Men cannot understand women. This is a fact. Women are much more complicated brain-wise and personality-wise than men. That is why it is ok for women to write about men but not vice versa. How could you possibly understand what women or black people go through? It's hugely disrespectful.

What? How are women "more complicated brain-wise and personality wise"?

Lenalee said: 

Outro said: 

Ok I was reasonably zooted when I wrote this so I can see that the wizard analogy doesn't really hold lol

But I do maintain the essence of my point. As for men not being able to write women properly, a quick glance at that subreddit makes me think it's coz they're getting lost in the palaver of trying to anthropomorphize boobs.

To counter, there are lots of examples of men writing women well. What about Tolstoy or Chuck Palahniuk? Marla Singer is a cult legend, and Anna Karenina is an OG. 

The most exciting bits of both of those stories was when they ended.

Full disclosure, I've never read Anna Karenina lol. But it is regarded as one of the best novels of all time...

I think it also depends on the context of the character. As a white dude, I'd have a hard time writing about a black woman going to a desegregated school in the 70's, but I reckon I could write her as some kinda space bounty hunter with minimal issue. 

 Again you're placing the setting in something that does not exist so there would be no wrong way to write a black female space bounty hunter. Your original complaint was about writing on a young African girl by a white man. Young African girls do exist. The real people being written about will have readers wanting to delve deeper within that character and because they are people that lived that black experience a white man could never be able to replicate. White people tend to liken other people's culture like a coat they can take on and off. They'll wear it for the fit but it's essentially a costume they can parade around in and take it off whenever they want.

Deduct the space theme then. My point is that if I wrote about a black woman's experience of racial injustice (or childbirth, as another example of a poorly chosen subject), I'd definitely do it badly. But there's lots of examples of people writing a generic "person" character interacting with a set of circumstances where it doesn't really matter if they're male/female/white/poc. 

Ripley from Alien was originally written as a male character, and they switched it to female last minute with minimal script editing. No one notices.. Equally, you could arbitrarily change Harry Potter to Asian or Latino and it wouldn't make any difference.

This idea that people have fundamentally different experiences based on their gender or race only goes so far, there's lots of universally human themes. The more we talk up differences, the more the divide widens. 

Turncoat said:

I'd argue that a woman couldn't accurately write in the mindset of a man for pretty much the same reasons I'd say a man could not write accurately as a woman; They weren't there.

Some writers get profoundly close, and that's up to the individual for what that amounts to, but in many respects they're liable to see a view of other demographics in a more superficial way when compared to modeling off of their own lives.

Men are very simple compared to women. There is nothing complicated about writing about a man and his desires to get laid. Let's not kid ourselves. "Day 1, masturbated while thinking about Lenalee." "Day 2, masturbated while thinking about trees." Men are spiritually and emotionally bankrupt and are extremely simplistic in their thinking and behavior. Compare that with the colorful and complicated women, who are much more intricate and advanced in their behavior and culture. Women have been oppressed for centuries and had to adapt to really difficult and socially complex situations. What about men? Men smoked cigars and masturbated for all of recorded history, and killed each other every now and then. There is nothing complicated about putting yourself in the mind of a man. You simply take a woman and remove all thought, emotion, culture, logic, and care for others, and you have a man. It's like a dumbed-down, dressed-down version of a woman. Hence why cultural appropriation is really not something that can happen to men, plus they were never oppressed. I agree that men cannot imagine what it is like to be a woman, but the vice versa doesn't really work due to the reasons stated here. Men pretending to understand what it's like to have PMS and give birth to children is the very definition of cultural appropriation and should imho be banned from literature.

Outro said: 

What? How are women "more complicated brain-wise and personality wise"?

Men don't really have a personality, They're empty and emotionally bankrupt. It's incredibly easy to write about men, but it's quite offensive and downright ridiculous to think that men can write about women without experiencing the pain and depth of the female experience. cf. above response to TC.

If you think you can write about women, then write 2 paragraphs on childbirth here and now as a man. We'll have one of the women here evaluate how accurate your description is. Then tell me it's not cultural appropriation.

Outro said: 

JimRichards said: 

Men cannot understand women. This is a fact. Women are much more complicated brain-wise and personality-wise than men. That is why it is ok for women to write about men but not vice versa. How could you possibly understand what women or black people go through? It's hugely disrespectful.

What? How are women "more complicated brain-wise and personality wise"?

Lenalee said: 

Outro said: 

Ok I was reasonably zooted when I wrote this so I can see that the wizard analogy doesn't really hold lol

But I do maintain the essence of my point. As for men not being able to write women properly, a quick glance at that subreddit makes me think it's coz they're getting lost in the palaver of trying to anthropomorphize boobs.

To counter, there are lots of examples of men writing women well. What about Tolstoy or Chuck Palahniuk? Marla Singer is a cult legend, and Anna Karenina is an OG. 

The most exciting bits of both of those stories was when they ended.

Full disclosure, I've never read Anna Karenina lol. But it is regarded as one of the best novels of all time...

I think it also depends on the context of the character. As a white dude, I'd have a hard time writing about a black woman going to a desegregated school in the 70's, but I reckon I could write her as some kinda space bounty hunter with minimal issue. 

 Again you're placing the setting in something that does not exist so there would be no wrong way to write a black female space bounty hunter. Your original complaint was about writing on a young African girl by a white man. Young African girls do exist. The real people being written about will have readers wanting to delve deeper within that character and because they are people that lived that black experience a white man could never be able to replicate. White people tend to liken other people's culture like a coat they can take on and off. They'll wear it for the fit but it's essentially a costume they can parade around in and take it off whenever they want.

Deduct the space theme then. My point is that if I wrote about a black woman's experience of racial injustice (or childbirth, as another example of a poorly chosen subject), I'd definitely do it badly. But there's lots of examples of people writing a generic "person" character interacting with a set of circumstances where it doesn't really matter if they're male/female/white/poc. 

Yes you could write about the circumstances but you will never write about the lived experiences because you wouldn't be able to understand it fully. No one is stopping you from writing it, it's just going to be a lot of "writing from the window" sort of thing. 

Ripley from Alien was originally written as a male character, and they switched it to female last minute with minimal script editing. No one notices.. Equally, you could arbitrarily change Harry Potter to Asian or Latino and it wouldn't make any difference.

You think an Asian or Latino Harry Potter wouldn't have been different? wew

I can't really talk about Ripley as I've never actually seen the movie

This idea that people have fundamentally different experiences based on their gender or race only goes so far, there's lots of universally human themes. The more we talk up differences, the more the divide widens. 

 There will always be divide but it widens more when you tend to profit from putting on someone else's culture and having it presented as fact. 

Men and women are both equally complex and their experiences will always differ. A woman will always be more aware of her surroundings if she were to walk home alone at night vs a man and a man will always be looked at as having to be the first one to do something particularly difficult/ physically stronger outside of science fiction/fantasy settings. 

A white person will never under the life experience of any person of color unless adopted into it and even then colorism and privilege will always allows for them to live differently. A person of color will never benefit from a system that was meant to cater to white people and will never have the same lived experiences as a white person. 

Pretending there isn't a divide is actually more harmful than pointing it out. 

Lenalee said: 

A person of color will never benefit from a system that was meant to cater to white people and will never have the same lived experiences as a white person. 

Tokenism might make for trends overtime that change things, who knows? 

Lenalee said: 

Men and women are both equally complex and their experiences will always differ. A woman will always be more aware of her surroundings if she were to walk home alone at night vs a man and a man will always be looked at as having to be the first one to do something particularly difficult/ physically stronger outside of science fiction/fantasy settings. 

A white person will never under the life experience of any person of color unless adopted into it and even then colorism and privilege will always allows for them to live differently. A person of color will never benefit from a system that was meant to cater to white people and will never have the same lived experiences as a white person. 

Pretending there isn't a divide is actually more harmful than pointing it out. 

 Do you think a white person would experience the same thing as a minority in African or Asian countries?

LiYang said: 

Lenalee said: 

Men and women are both equally complex and their experiences will always differ. A woman will always be more aware of her surroundings if she were to walk home alone at night vs a man and a man will always be looked at as having to be the first one to do something particularly difficult/ physically stronger outside of science fiction/fantasy settings. 

A white person will never under the life experience of any person of color unless adopted into it and even then colorism and privilege will always allows for them to live differently. A person of color will never benefit from a system that was meant to cater to white people and will never have the same lived experiences as a white person. 

Pretending there isn't a divide is actually more harmful than pointing it out. 

 Do you think a white person would experience the same thing as a minority in African or Asian countries?

 Depends where in African and Asian countries tbh. TC has detailed about her trip to Japan and would probably be a better source for lived experience as a white person in a different country.

Lenalee said: 

LiYang said: 

Lenalee said: 

Men and women are both equally complex and their experiences will always differ. A woman will always be more aware of her surroundings if she were to walk home alone at night vs a man and a man will always be looked at as having to be the first one to do something particularly difficult/ physically stronger outside of science fiction/fantasy settings. 

A white person will never under the life experience of any person of color unless adopted into it and even then colorism and privilege will always allows for them to live differently. A person of color will never benefit from a system that was meant to cater to white people and will never have the same lived experiences as a white person. 

Pretending there isn't a divide is actually more harmful than pointing it out. 

 Do you think a white person would experience the same thing as a minority in African or Asian countries?

 Depends where in African and Asian countries tbh. TC has detailed about her trip to Japan and would probably be a better source for lived experience as a white person in a different country.

 I'm not really liking the words "always/never". Maybe in general you are correct. Always and never are just strong words  with no exceptions. I find there are "always" exceptions. lol

What’s your opinion on cancel culture as a whole I mean lots of people have spoken about it but figured I’d expound this tangent 

Lenalee said: 

Men and women are both equally complex and their experiences will always differ.

Are you for real?

A woman will always be more aware of her surroundings if she were to walk home alone at night vs a man and a man will always be looked at as having to be the first one to do something particularly difficult/ physically stronger outside of science fiction/fantasy settings. 

Bingo, but I'd like to point out also that women can be physically stronger than men. It's all about training muscle, but women do that less on average because they know muscle<brain.

A white person will never under the life experience of any person of color unless adopted into it and even then colorism and privilege will always allows for them to live differently. A person of color will never benefit from a system that was meant to cater to white people and will never have the same lived experiences as a white person. 

White men* can never experience how it is to be oppressed because they live a life of privilege. Colored people who make it are more intelligent and successful than white men, who only get the things they get because of a system that is rigged for their skin color and sex, even though black people are genetically more gifted for example in terms of sun protection, so they have a genetic advantage over white men.

Pretending there isn't a divide is actually more harmful than pointing it out. 

This is exactly why I always notice if you're a woman or a black person and point it out so that white men can stop being so privileged. Nothing breaks the chain of gender discrimination quite like shouting "can't you see she's a woman!?!?!?"