Sociopath Community

Turncoat said: 

Lenalee said: 

Turncoat said: 

Lenalee said: 

Turncoat said: 

Lenalee said: 

Even in both your examples for Tolkien and HG Wells they were writing for beings that don't exist and therefore there is no wrong way to write those characters. 

Somewhat disagree when it comes to Tolkien, some bits about his fantasy races beg a lot of questions for their real world inspirations. 

Even Lovecraft showed shades of racism, it was much more common during less socially aware timeframes. 

 Are wizards and martians and hobbits real tc?

Orcs aren't real, but look at what they could represent when compared to our own history and struggles. 

 I'm going to beat you 

"It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great Darkness that they cannot abide the Sun; but Saruman's Orcs can endure it, even if they hate it. I wonder what he has done? Are they Men he has ruined, or has he blended the races of Orcs and Men? That would be a black evil!"

 I'm going to belt you. 

Outro said: 

I find this to be one of the most obnoxious and poorly argued cultural shifts of the last decade.

Sure, there are some instances that are obviously wrong, such as blackface/yellow face, Minstrel shows etc, but the concept seems to be creeping into very debatable areas.

For example, I read a criticism of a book because it told the story of a young African girl and was written by a white man. Who gives a fuck? Whether or not he pulled it off is fair game, but drawing some inane boundary that forces a white dude in his 40’s to only write about white dudes in their 40’s seems to fundamentally misunderstand the entire point of fiction. Tolkien wasn’t a fucking wizard. HG Wells wasn’t a Martian. If people can pull off writing about the experience of literal mythical creatures, I’m sure they can wrap their heads around being a different ethnicity.

 I especially love how shit is called cultural appropriating when it isn't. Like dreadlocks- white people.wore dreadlocks to in the Nordic regions, or animal fur, white people did that to in the Nordic regions, or feathers in the hair, white people did that to in the Nordic regions, or beads in the hair, white people did that to in the Nordic regions, Africa did not invent everything known to man do I need to continue? Oh or shamanism, white people did that to in the Nordic regions, animism and animism is everyone's background because it was probably the first religion, and white people did that to in the Nordic regions, list goes on and on.

Here in Hawaii it is considered cultural appropriation to weave palm branch leaves into roses and shit but actually this practice is also practice in the southern US in Louisiana Georgia and Florida and they actually adopted some weaving designs from us, such as shrimp for example. Shrimp isn't a huge part of Hawaiian culture that's from the southern US. One time a woman tried to be sly with me about my weaving shrimp and I said "yeah! I love that Hawaii adopted Louisiana weaving designs that's to cool! I learned to do this in Georgia!" (Before you say the Philippines invented it actually Louisiana has a different way of doing the shrimp and it's simpler because they have less flexible palm leaves on average than the Philippines where as the phillipino way is used less and Louisiana and the phillipines both came up with it on their own separately so really no one invented the idea of weaving shrimp from palm branches) She was speechless. She wasn't even native Hawaiian that's the best part. Native Hawaiians won't bitch at you for stupid shit they pick their battles but it's usually retarded white people who think they are "advocates" that will

Outro said: 

I find this to be one of the most obnoxious and poorly argued cultural shifts of the last decade.

Sure, there are some instances that are obviously wrong, such as blackface/yellow face, Minstrel shows etc, but the concept seems to be creeping into very debatable areas.

For example, I read a criticism of a book because it told the story of a young African girl and was written by a white man. Who gives a fuck? Whether or not he pulled it off is fair game, but drawing some inane boundary that forces a white dude in his 40’s to only write about white dudes in their 40’s seems to fundamentally misunderstand the entire point of fiction. Tolkien wasn’t a fucking wizard. HG Wells wasn’t a Martian. If people can pull off writing about the experience of literal mythical creatures, I’m sure they can wrap their heads around being a different ethnicity.

 This is the bullshit people push when they have too much time on their hands, too much luxury, too soft. People sit around pondering who can write what.

This is the cancer of society.

Lenalee said: 

Outro said: 

I find this to be one of the most obnoxious and poorly argued cultural shifts of the last decade.

Sure, there are some instances that are obviously wrong, such as blackface/yellow face, Minstrel shows etc, but the concept seems to be creeping into very debatable areas.

For example, I read a criticism of a book because it told the story of a young African girl and was written by a white man. Who gives a fuck? Whether or not he pulled it off is fair game, but drawing some inane boundary that forces a white dude in his 40’s to only write about white dudes in their 40’s seems to fundamentally misunderstand the entire point of fiction. Tolkien wasn’t a fucking wizard. HG Wells wasn’t a Martian. If people can pull off writing about the experience of literal mythical creatures, I’m sure they can wrap their heads around being a different ethnicity.

 Lmao no 

There's a whole subreddit dedicated to men writing women poorly because men cannot truly live a woman's experience, and race? White people will never experience the same shit people of color have. Even in both your examples for Tolkien and HG Wells they were writing for beings that don't exist and therefore there is no wrong way to write those characters. 

Ok I was reasonably zooted when I wrote this so I can see that the wizard analogy doesn't really hold lol

But I do maintain the essence of my point. As for men not being able to write women properly, a quick glance at that subreddit makes me think it's coz they're getting lost in the palaver of trying to anthropomorphize boobs.

To counter, there are lots of examples of men writing women well. What about Tolstoy or Chuck Palahniuk? Marla Singer is a cult legend, and Anna Karenina is an OG. 

I think it also depends on the context of the character. As a white dude, I'd have a hard time writing about a black woman going to a desegregated school in the 70's, but I reckon I could write her as some kinda space bounty hunter with minimal issue. 

Ok I was reasonably zooted when I wrote this so I can see that the wizard analogy doesn't really hold lol

It doesn't.

But I do maintain the essence of my point. As for men not being able to write women properly, a quick glance at that subreddit makes me think it's coz they're getting lost in the palaver of trying to anthropomorphize boobs.

Men cannot understand women. This is a fact. Women are much more complicated brain-wise and personality-wise than men. That is why it is ok for women to write about men but not vice versa. How could you possibly understand what women or black people go through? It's hugely disrespectful.

To counter, there are lots of examples of men writing women well. What about Tolstoy or Chuck Palahniuk? Marla Singer is a cult legend, and Anna Karenina is an OG. 

I disagree and it doesn't stop it from being cultural appropriation. You should respect culture and gender. It's basic politeness.

I think it also depends on the context of the character. As a white dude, I'd have a hard time writing about a black woman going to a desegregated school in the 70's, but I reckon I could write her as some kinda space bounty hunter with minimal issue. 

Lmfao ok. In that case, write two pragraphs here about your female space bounty hunter's issues with PMS and childbirth to show how much you know about women's issues. The space bounty hunter was abducted, raped and seeded by Jabba the Fuck and there's been a slimy slugspawn growing in her belly for the last 9 months. Now write two paragraphs on the childbirth. Go.

JimRichards said: 

But I do maintain the essence of my point. As for men not being able to write women properly, a quick glance at that subreddit makes me think it's coz they're getting lost in the palaver of trying to anthropomorphize boobs.

Men cannot understand women. This is a fact. Women are much more complicated brain-wise and personality-wise than men. That is why it is ok for women to write about men but not vice versa. How could you possibly understand what women or black people go through? It's hugely disrespectful.

It's not that different groups are superior so much as they demonstrate marginal advantages over one another. It's really moreover culture and their environment that privilege exists, as perspective taking becomes difficult for people who've otherwise not had to face a similar struggle in their own lives. Even if it could be understood from a third person perspective, it will never truly be in the first person, and that difference serves to distort how the message is taken. 

Outro said: 

Lenalee said: 

Outro said: 

I find this to be one of the most obnoxious and poorly argued cultural shifts of the last decade.

Sure, there are some instances that are obviously wrong, such as blackface/yellow face, Minstrel shows etc, but the concept seems to be creeping into very debatable areas.

For example, I read a criticism of a book because it told the story of a young African girl and was written by a white man. Who gives a fuck? Whether or not he pulled it off is fair game, but drawing some inane boundary that forces a white dude in his 40’s to only write about white dudes in their 40’s seems to fundamentally misunderstand the entire point of fiction. Tolkien wasn’t a fucking wizard. HG Wells wasn’t a Martian. If people can pull off writing about the experience of literal mythical creatures, I’m sure they can wrap their heads around being a different ethnicity.

 Lmao no 

There's a whole subreddit dedicated to men writing women poorly because men cannot truly live a woman's experience, and race? White people will never experience the same shit people of color have. Even in both your examples for Tolkien and HG Wells they were writing for beings that don't exist and therefore there is no wrong way to write those characters. 

Ok I was reasonably zooted when I wrote this so I can see that the wizard analogy doesn't really hold lol

But I do maintain the essence of my point. As for men not being able to write women properly, a quick glance at that subreddit makes me think it's coz they're getting lost in the palaver of trying to anthropomorphize boobs.

To counter, there are lots of examples of men writing women well. What about Tolstoy or Chuck Palahniuk? Marla Singer is a cult legend, and Anna Karenina is an OG. 

The most exciting bits of both of those stories was when they ended.

I think it also depends on the context of the character. As a white dude, I'd have a hard time writing about a black woman going to a desegregated school in the 70's, but I reckon I could write her as some kinda space bounty hunter with minimal issue. 

 Again you're placing the setting in something that does not exist so there would be no wrong way to write a black female space bounty hunter. Your original complaint was about writing on a young African girl by a white man. Young African girls do exist. The real people being written about will have readers wanting to delve deeper within that character and because they are people that lived that black experience a white man could never be able to replicate. White people tend to liken other people's culture like a coat they can take on and off. They'll wear it for the fit but it's essentially a costume they can parade around in and take it off whenever they want.

Lenalee is exactly right.

Turncoat said: 

It's not that different groups are superior so much as they demonstrate marginal advantages over one another. It's really moreover culture and their environment that privilege exists, as perspective taking becomes difficult for people who've otherwise not had to face a similar struggle in their own lives. Even if it could be understood from a third person perspective, it will never truly be in the first person, and that difference serves to distort how the message is taken.

I didnt say anyone is superior to anyone. I said that women are much more complicated brain-wise and personality-wise and that men could never understand women.

Forget culture. It's biologically impossible for men to understand women. That's a fact. There are some cultural influences, for sure. But unless you give birth to a child, you will never get how that's like. Pretending like you understand how it's like is incredibly insensitive and is indeed cultural appropriation. You don't understand women and never will. Men have it easy and theres nothing to understand about men. They're very simple. That's why it's not cultural appropriation to write about men, because there's nothing impolite about recognizing that men are what they are.

I'd argue that a woman couldn't accurately write in the mindset of a man for pretty much the same reasons I'd say a man could not write accurately as a woman; They weren't there. 

Some writers get profoundly close, and that's up to the individual for what that amounts to, but in many respects they're liable to see a view of other demographics in a more superficial way when compared to modeling off of their own lives. 

Turncoat said: 

I'd argue that a woman couldn't accurately write in the mindset of a man for pretty much the same reasons I'd say a man could not write accurately as a woman; They weren't there. 

Some writers get profoundly close, and that's up to the individual for what that amounts to, but in many respects they're liable to see a view of other demographics in a more superficial way when compared to modeling off of their own lives. 

 Does this mean I can't have a male protagonist in my book?

 Oh no jk Rowling is a sinner