Sometimes they come in my dreams. Paimon first and foremost. I dont think they should be revered, I think they should be pitied. Their power is very little next to them being powerless over their own conditions and them burning with kleśas and delusion. I am happy to be human and to not identify with my defilements, working with and through them. I embrace goodness and try to extinguish the bad.
Sometimes they come in my dreams. Paimon first and foremost. I dont think they should be revered, I think they should be pitied. Their power is very little next to them being powerless over their own conditions and them burning with kleśas and delusion. I am happy to be human and to not identify with my defilements, working with and through them. I embrace goodness and try to extinguish the bad.
Their wisdom is leagues beyond ours though, if the texts are to be believed.
Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Sometimes they come in my dreams. Paimon first and foremost. I dont think they should be revered, I think they should be pitied. Their power is very little next to them being powerless over their own conditions and them burning with kleśas and delusion. I am happy to be human and to not identify with my defilements, working with and through them. I embrace goodness and try to extinguish the bad.
Their wisdom is leagues beyond ours though, if the texts are to be believed.
Conventionally they are knowledgeable. But they have no wisdom. They are still within cyclic existence.
Sometimes they come in my dreams. Paimon first and foremost. I dont think they should be revered, I think they should be pitied. Their power is very little next to them being powerless over their own conditions and them burning with kleśas and delusion. I am happy to be human and to not identify with my defilements, working with and through them. I embrace goodness and try to extinguish the bad.
Their wisdom is leagues beyond ours though, if the texts are to be believed.
Conventionally they are knowledgeable. But they have no wisdom. They are still within cyclic existence.
I'd figure with having lived leagues longer than ourselves that their wisdom of experience with the knowledge would be superior, especially when they can look over those who carry their works.
Lucifer was also cited as being quite wise, rather than being without wisdom, but that he took what he knew and twisted it into a different display as an aspect of his vanity and to spit on God's works. If these are the angels that followed him then they too should stand to reflect a similar sense of twisted wisdom.
Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Sometimes they come in my dreams. Paimon first and foremost. I dont think they should be revered, I think they should be pitied. Their power is very little next to them being powerless over their own conditions and them burning with kleśas and delusion. I am happy to be human and to not identify with my defilements, working with and through them. I embrace goodness and try to extinguish the bad.
Their wisdom is leagues beyond ours though, if the texts are to be believed.
Conventionally they are knowledgeable. But they have no wisdom. They are still within cyclic existence.
I'd figure with having lived leagues longer than ourselves that their wisdom of experience with the knowledge would be superior, especially when they can look over those who carry their works.
Lucifer was also cited as being quite wise, rather than being without wisdom, but that he took what he knew and twisted it into a different display as an aspect of his vanity and to spit on God's works. If these are the angels that followed him then they too should stand to reflect a similar sense of twisted wisdom.
I'm taking an etic approach. These paradigms are not valid to me., etc. I think it is delusion. I do not believe there is a god that created the universe etc., but I do believe that there are beings who cling to this idea. I also believe in spirits, gods and demons and so on. I do believe that there are beings such as gods and demons, angels, jinns, the voodoo loas etc., that really exist conventionally and themselves believe they are serving a god etc in the same way that a human follower who worships for example the christian god does. Even though I believe that they believe this at the same time I do not believe that their beliefs are true but that they are deluded. Makes them not less dangerous or conventionally powerful. Wisdom when I talk about it is a means to end suffering. These beings should they exist are obviously suffering tremendously in a similar way as you have said in another thread recently 'Life is suffering'. They are burning with afflictions, concepts and delusions and for me that cannot be wisdom. They are samsaric beings.
Do you believe in them, TC? Other than as symbols etc?
I see it as people personifying philosophy, which is why I have deified concepts as equally relevant. Why it matters is a matter of personal investment, a matter of how much they've let themselves sink into it as a shortcut towards bigger ideas. If these things are on your mind, even as an atheist they carry weight and shape aspects of who we are.
For those who choose to believe in Science without learning about it for example, simply by throwing their trust at it over those they deem superior practitioners of the art, they end up giving it a sense of mysticism no different from other faiths with Scientists being treated as the Clerics of the modern age.
Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Sometimes they come in my dreams. Paimon first and foremost. I dont think they should be revered, I think they should be pitied. Their power is very little next to them being powerless over their own conditions and them burning with kleśas and delusion. I am happy to be human and to not identify with my defilements, working with and through them. I embrace goodness and try to extinguish the bad.
Their wisdom is leagues beyond ours though, if the texts are to be believed.
Conventionally they are knowledgeable. But they have no wisdom. They are still within cyclic existence.
I'd figure with having lived leagues longer than ourselves that their wisdom of experience with the knowledge would be superior, especially when they can look over those who carry their works.
Lucifer was also cited as being quite wise, rather than being without wisdom, but that he took what he knew and twisted it into a different display as an aspect of his vanity and to spit on God's works. If these are the angels that followed him then they too should stand to reflect a similar sense of twisted wisdom.I'm taking an etic approach. These paradigms are not valid to me., etc. I think it is delusion. I do not believe there is a god that created the universe etc., but I do believe that there are beings who cling to this idea. I also believe in spirits, gods and demons and so on.
If you choose to not believe in God, yet choose to believe in spirits, gods, and demons, what would you say is responsible for our creation?
I do believe that there are beings such as gods and demons, angels, jinns, the voodoo loas etc., that really exist conventionally and themselves believe they are serving a god etc in the same way that a human follower who worships for example the christian god does. Even though I believe that they believe this at the same time I do not believe that their beliefs are true but that they are deluded. Makes them not less dangerous or conventionally powerful.
Where do you draw the line for believability for Gods then? What tier of power's more realistic to you?
Wisdom when I talk about it is a means to end suffering.
Ecclesiastes' works go directly against that, straight up demonizing Wisdom as if it were meaningless as he suffers through the acquisition of it.
These beings should they exist are obviously suffering tremendously in a similar way as you have said in another thread recently 'Life is suffering'. They are burning with afflictions, concepts and delusions and for me that cannot be wisdom. They are samsaric beings.
I figured the 'burning' they went through was closer to the pain of living through immortality.
God wouldn't suffer in such a model from being a Timeless Entity, all would in theory feel as if it happened all at once for Him from being Omnipotent to at least 6th dimensional capacity. Meanwhile, all of His subjects are constrained by the forces of time, meaning they have to feel themselves eroding as they see the world around them change ever-faster as their relative age grows.
Rather than seeing it all at once, these supposed demons are as we are, seeing time from their point of origin while going forwards until they cannot anymore. It'd make sense that they'd suffer as we do, albeit moreso from living longer than any mortal was meant to live, even when you account for God increasing the lifespans of some of His subjects. You've seen how the Bible discusses how humans could survive being immortal with any sense of pleasure, right? It's practically a spiritual lobotomy, and seems to be the only understood idea of how existing forever would be anything but suffering.
With how many faiths present peace as something that comes after you've lived long enough, it'd stand to say that those who cannot pass on must suffer immensely. That however doesn't mean that they aren't hardened by their wisdom against such a struggle from having had that much longer to theoretically adapt to it.
Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on
11/8/2021 10:47:34 PM
If you choose to not believe in God, yet choose to believe in spirits, gods, and demons, what would you say is responsible for our creation?Dependent origination.
What's at the top of the chain of contingencies though, or did they just all simultaneously generate spontaneously?
Does it loop on itself maybe?
Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔