Message Turncoat in a DM to get moderator attention

Users Online(? lurkers):
6 / 106 posts
Posts: 33413
0 votes RE: Reverence to Demons
Good said:
I don't have the time to go too deep into this, maybe I will get a book on it. But from what I did see, I think I do agree with Hobbes.
But Rousseau says that the state of nature of humans is to be nice and kind and it changed with science and civilization, for people to become more sinful and have vices. I do not agree with that. I think people used to be more savage and brutal in the past, when they raped, killed, and lived for 20 years. The natural state of man is savage and thanks to our scientific progress, we started to worry less and less about survival, giving us time to think about the world. As we became less ignorant and more thoughtful, we could overcome our savage nature. 

So similar to Rousseau, but in a glass half empty kind of way? 

You in effect see civilization as what is unnatural for how people behave, rather than blaming civilization for why people are horrid. This does indeed sound more like Hobbes: 

Why should peaceful cooperation be impossible without an overarching authority? Hobbes provides a series of powerful arguments that suggest it is extremely unlikely that human beings will live in security and peaceful cooperation without government. His most basic argument is threefold.

(i) He thinks we will compete, violently compete, to secure the basic necessities of life and perhaps to make other material gains.

(ii) He argues that we will challenge others and fight out of fear (“diffidence”), so as to ensure our personal safety.

(iii) And he believes that we will seek reputation (“glory”), both for its own sake and for its protective effects (for example, so that others will be afraid to challenge us).

There's more in that section about his opinions over human nature. 


Here is my political theory:
Less personal reasons why I prefer authoritarian governments over democratic ones are these:

A leader has no consequences for his actions. When a leader is elected he gets to rule, gets paid, and does his thing. Then when the term is over unless he did something illegal, he just goes back to his life, it does not matter what he did, how bad or poorly it was during his rule. Sure, maybe he won't be elected again, but that is not a large incentive. In an authoritarian regime, the leader usually dies. Now you can see why he would care a lot more about his situation.
A democratic term is usually short, so long-term goals are less important to the leader and he has to fix the mess of the previous leader. If you are a leader for life, you can really see the bigger picture and set up everything to be efficient for your rule.
The power of the leader in a democracy is not in the nation he rules. It is his money. This makes leaders corrupt. Because once his term is over, and even when he is in rule, he can get more done with money, than the system. He has the incentive to pursue money over what has to be done.
In an authoritarian regime, the power of the leader is in the nation. How well it is doing, social, religious, scientific, economic, cultural progress. The army. His life is tied to his nation. If the nation gets fucked, he will probably get fucked and he loses power directly, whenever the nation takes a blow. Now, this is an incentive to rule correctly for your own selfish benefit.

The first problem I immediately see with this idea comes from Monarchy models, setups where the next one to be thrown into power is likely blood related with enough of a system of wealth and security in place to ensure that things like assassination are a lot harder to accomplish. 

This sort of thing plays into inherent privilege, they grow unable to relate to the very people they are meant to be in charge of and, as a result, do not end up representing the people's best interests rather than their own as a matter of perceptions. Rather than being desperate enough to work for wages with risk of corruption you now see corruption occurring out of sheer ignorance with no easy means of replacing them. 

By comparison, a Democratic government (on paper anyway) would be able to not have to escalate to the point of murder, unlikely murder well above their station at that, to fix the problem. People would be given the idea, or even potentially the illusion, that them voting is equivalent to throwing rocks at their enemy's houses, pacifying them far enough to not throw said rocks until something breaks and even invite infighting among those who'd vote against them, rather than directly at the Monarch itself. 

The idea that people have power over society gives reason for people to divide into a social civil war, one that works far enough to tire them out, while Authoritarian structures force much harder demands that could easily boil and bubble into something worse, or be helpless to stop the problem entirely. While both are prone to escalation and corruption, one is less stuck in place and people fighting eachother lets business run undisturbed in the background during the distractions. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 1/5/2023 4:18:46 PM
Posts: 3965
0 votes RE: Reverence to Demons

thanks guys, il use this to help me sleep

Posts: 2759
0 votes RE: Reverence to Demons

Just shut up and fuck already.

🌺🐀 🌺
Posts: 2866
0 votes RE: Reverence to Demons

thanks guys, il use this to help me sleep

But wait, there is more!

 

So similar to Rousseau, but in a glass half empty kind of way? 

You in effect see civilization as what is unnatural for how people behave, rather than blaming civilization for why people are horrid. This does indeed sound more like Hobbes: 

Why should peaceful cooperation be impossible without an overarching authority? Hobbes provides a series of powerful arguments that suggest it is extremely unlikely that human beings will live in security and peaceful cooperation without government. His most basic argument is threefold.

(i) He thinks we will compete, violently compete, to secure the basic necessities of life and perhaps to make other material gains.

(ii) He argues that we will challenge others and fight out of fear (“diffidence”), so as to ensure our personal safety.

(iii) And he believes that we will seek reputation (“glory”), both for its own sake and for its protective effects (for example, so that others will be afraid to challenge us).

There's more in that section about his opinions over human nature. 

Hobbes is on the money here, I could nick-pick details, but it's very good in general. I think people are savage at their core. We are at the top of the food chain, not just because we are smart, but because we are aggressive and ambitious. We see a problem and while some do cower from it and run, it just takes 1 person not to, it takes 1 person to ambitiously embrace it and aggressively tackle it.
I love sci-fi stuff where there are these big bad aliens, intelligent and very physically dangerous and brutal with no morality to kill. And as the story develops you find out that this deadly menace is actually being used by other humans as a weapon. I think that is awesome. These horrifying monsters are just doing our bidding because someone found them, and instead of being afraid, he had the ambition to see how he can use them and the aggression to make it so.
2 examples come to mind instantly:

  • Terrans in starcraft 1, the UED (United Earth Directorate) uses a special psi emitter that attracts zerg to planets and thus kills everyone there, they use them as a weapon. Eventually, they capture the zerg overmind, and instead of killing it, they want to control it. And the only reason this fails is that the overmind captured a human and infested it, and this zerg human takes control over the zerg for herself and manipulates everyone, in true human fashion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-00uQzXyujI 
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r39hIAMbxRs 
  • The xenomorphs, in multiple media, are being controlled and even created by humans. Humans even have had queens under their control and were doing experiments on them. It is beautiful.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLddFvCOFyU 

What I read seems a bit dramatic tho. People without a gov can exist in small groups and cooperate. But eventually, someone will step out of the cooperation line and if they are ambitious and aggressive, they will create change. Usually, a dictatorial change, creating a government (perhaps only over a tribe) because they are stronger that the rest. And eventually, another aggressive and ambitions wo/man will challenge him/her. Small governments are natural because we are social as a species. But to prosper we do need larger ones that enforce law and order.

The first problem I immediately see with this idea comes from Monarchy models, setups where the next one to be thrown into power is likely blood related with enough of a system of wealth and security in place to ensure that things like assassination are a lot harder to accomplish.

It is only hard if they control their own military. And if they do, then they are probably worthy of remaining in control. Usually, to stage a coup in an authoritarian government, you need military support or the authority to have a weak military. Or just sheer numbers.

This sort of thing plays into inherent privilege, they grow unable to relate to the very people they are meant to be in charge of and, as a result, do not end up representing the people's best interests rather than their own as a matter of perceptions. Rather than being desperate enough to work for wages with risk of corruption you now see corruption occurring out of sheer ignorance with no easy means of replacing them. 

And because they grow like that, the people hate them and the military is part of the people. Or if the military are privileged, then they also grow weak and complacent. They can be bought or they will grow ambitions to take power themselves or they will just fail to stop the common people. The fight never ends and that promotes evolution. Just ask the shadows from babylon 5.

By comparison, a Democratic government (on paper anyway) would be able to not have to escalate to the point of murder, unlikely murder well above their station at that, to fix the problem. People would be given the idea, or even potentially the illusion, that them voting is equivalent to throwing rocks at their enemy's houses, pacifying them far enough to not throw said rocks until something breaks and even invite infighting among those who'd vote against them, rather than directly at the Monarch itself.

Democracy is a good tool to control the masses in an authoritarian regime, like possibly Russia. Other than that, it does have benefits, but it is slow and inefficient.

The idea that people have power over society gives reason for people to divide into a social civil war, one that works far enough to tire them out, while Authoritarian structures force much harder demands that could easily boil and bubble into something worse, or be helpless to stop the problem entirely. While both are prone to escalation and corruption, one is less stuck in place and people fighting eachother lets business run undisturbed in the background during the distractions. 

I think democracy is stuck in place, the growth is slow and people lack ambition, for reasons I mentioned earlier. The problem will be solved in an authoritarian regime because conflict is inevitable when there is ambition and aggression.

Cheery bye!
Posts: 2759
0 votes RE: Reverence to Demons

Hey gaywad a majority of what I have said about stolas was a repeated and overused joke about how it sounds like "stole ass" 

If you did your research you would see I have said shit about Satan before and how Satan is meant to test humans and might work for God which is basic Jewish theology. 

Your research on members sucks ass

I have also spoken of Azrael multiple times and even called them a friend, aka the archangel of death, more basic Jewish theology.

I have also covered Lilith and her true symbolism to Emily who has appropriated Jewish culture with that topic a billion times, and I have also mentioned the Greek deity via my Nonna's version of the story, the symbolic queen of the dead "she who shall not be named" kore or Persephone, Greek or by extension Sicilian folklore.

The only one out of all of these which some would call demons, that I have reverence for out of those listed in this post I am writing thus far is Azrael because as a Jew I feel Azrael is an archangel, not a demon. And archangels especially one I have spoken of a dozen times, feel very close with, and have seen in dreams multiple times, obviously I would respect such. The fact you ignored/missed this shows your lack of research. 

Above all of these I have spoken of G-d which you probably are not educated to understand that as a Jew is me referring to god in a respectful manner. You mentioned like one members Christianity but just to stretch your point left out the very obvious point that I am a Jew, and therefore left out all of the Jewish spiritual figures I have mentioned, which have been to many for it to have been an accidental on your part.

You have purposely for whatever reason ignored what everyone on this site, even quin who has her head up her ass knows by now, which is that my religion is Judaism. Anything beyond that is a philosophy taught through Sicilian folklore told to me by my grandmother.

I don't even believe in the existence of stolas

I don't even have a literal belief of she who shall not be named.

You would have had an interesting post here if you were not an annoying, biased, purposefully blind pretentious ass.

🌺🐀 🌺
last edit on 1/11/2023 11:55:39 AM
Posts: 2759
0 votes RE: Reverence to Demons

The coolest demon (even tho I don't like demons) is Pan. Mostly cause he reminds me of peterpan. He's still going to hell!

 Pan is not a demon but a Greek god, one of the ancient gods, who in the modern day is passed through oral tradition to tell a symbolic tale of nature and the animal within us all.

 

Disclaimer to shut tc the fuck up, I don't have a literal belief in the existence of an pan, including before the ancient deities supposed death. 

🌺🐀 🌺
last edit on 1/11/2023 11:58:03 AM
6 / 106 posts
This site contains NSFW material. To view and use this site, you must be 18+ years of age.