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Posts: 33367
0 votes RE: Change my mind
Kestrel said: 

It always comes to where conception is for me. I do not believe in abortion once there are brain functions, heartbeat and moving limbs. Before, sure.

All three of those at once, or just any one of those?

I still say it's not "alive" until it's actually had some life experience outside of the mother. It's not really consciousness before then, it's just automatic feeding tube behaviors. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 1076
0 votes RE: Change my mind
Kestrel said: 

It always comes to where conception is for me. I do not believe in abortion once there are brain functions, heartbeat and moving limbs. Before, sure.

All three of those at once, or just any one of those?

I still say it's not "alive" until it's actually had some life experience outside of the mother. It's not really consciousness before then, it's just automatic feeding tube behaviors. 

That's not a good criteria. A person with dementia or memory loss has no memorable life experiences or ones that count. 

At least the heartbeat one makes sense. 

Posts: 33367
0 votes RE: Change my mind
Kestrel said: 

It always comes to where conception is for me. I do not believe in abortion once there are brain functions, heartbeat and moving limbs. Before, sure.

All three of those at once, or just any one of those?

I still say it's not "alive" until it's actually had some life experience outside of the mother. It's not really consciousness before then, it's just automatic feeding tube behaviors. 

A person with dementia or memory loss has no memorable life experiences or ones that count. 

Past a point, dementia and memory loss reduces you to little more than a prop. It's a premature death in it's own regard, and hardly an experience I'd qualify as truly living. I'd also completely understand such a person undergoing Kavorkian treatments (assisted suicide). 

You're probably the sort of person that'd leave a human veggie on life support. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 6/16/2019 3:29:03 AM
Posts: 566
0 votes RE: Change my mind
Kestrel said: 

It always comes to where conception is for me. I do not believe in abortion once there are brain functions, heartbeat and moving limbs. Before, sure.

All three of those at once, or just any one of those?

I still say it's not "alive" until it's actually had some life experience outside of the mother. It's not really consciousness before then, it's just automatic feeding tube behaviors. 

That's not a good criteria. A person with dementia or memory loss has no memorable life experiences or ones that count. 

At least the heartbeat one makes sense. 

 Lol, so you're discrediting people with dementia with basic brain functions. Not the case, even though they have bad memory those are complex actions that most mammals, let alone animals couldnt do. 

Heart beat is redundant because the heart cells literally evolve as a clump of cells before a developed brain. The heart is nothing in terms of intelligence, developed brain is what seperates humanity from ants and flys. I mentioned it as a sense of progression to add a level of humanization to fetuses

I am with you, even unto the end of the age
last edit on 6/16/2019 5:54:44 AM
Posts: 566
0 votes RE: Change my mind
Kestrel said: 

It always comes to where conception is for me. I do not believe in abortion once there are brain functions, heartbeat and moving limbs. Before, sure.

All three of those at once, or just any one of those?

I still say it's not "alive" until it's actually had some life experience outside of the mother. It's not really consciousness before then, it's just automatic feeding tube behaviors. 

 It's really just basic brain functions, as it indicates the rest. heart beat comes first but almost every organism has a heart

"Alive" is a matter of debate. And as alice mentioned this issue is bigger than the current circumstance. The symbolic and principle impact of this issue on society is sizeable enough to be a heavy factor in choosing

I am with you, even unto the end of the age
Posts: 1076
0 votes RE: Change my mind

Brain function means nothing to mean unless they're literally dead. Disabled people can have "low brain function" and as someone pointed out to me... Some animals have higher brain function an cognitive ability than some humans.

last edit on 6/16/2019 5:58:23 AM
Posts: 1123
1 votes RE: Change my mind

As an aside, abortion is not even a modern practice. Women have tried to control pregnancy since ancient times. For literally thousands of years, all cultures have had methods to end pregnancy, including the administration of abortifacient herbs, the use of sharpened implements, the application of abdominal pressure, and other techniques. The first recorded evidence of induced abortion is from the Egyptian Ebers Papyrus in 1550 BCE.

"Many of the methods employed in early cultures were non-surgical. Physical activities like strenuous labor, climbing, paddling, weightlifting, or diving were a common technique. Others included the use of irritant leaves, fasting, bloodletting, pouring hot water onto the abdomen, and lying on a heated coconut shell. In virtually all cultures, abortion techniques developed through observation, adaptation of obstetrical methods, and transculturation. Physical means of inducing abortion, including battery, exercise, and tightening the girdle were still often used as late as the Early Modern Period among English women."

Japanese documents show records of induced abortion from as early as the 12th century. It became much more prevalent during the Edo period, especially among the peasant class, who were hit hardest by the recurrent famines and high taxation of the age. Hmm imagine that - poor people who can't take care of kids choosing not to have them.

The Stoics believed the fetus to be plantlike in nature, and not an animal until the moment of birth, when it finally breathed air. They therefore found abortion morally acceptable.

Aristotle wrote that, "The line between lawful and unlawful abortion will be marked by the fact of having sensation and being alive." Before that point was reached, Aristotle did not regard abortion as the killing of something human. Aristotle considered the embryo to gain a human soul at 40 days if male and 90 days if female; before that, it had vegetable souls.

 

I Took The Liberty Of Fertilizing Your Caviar.
Posts: 738
2 votes RE: Change my mind

>complains about abortion being bad but using technology which comes from nigger children working in 5th rate conditions having to slaughter their fellow niggers to feed their family

 

why would you even care about it bringing pain to the child when you're doing so many things that is actively fostering child abuse all across the world, its just something that people wnat to make their lives easier with, they have no problem having niggers take that share of pain so why are fetuses anything special

Posts: 566
0 votes RE: Change my mind

Brain function means nothing to mean unless they're literally dead. Disabled people can have "low brain function" and as someone pointed out to me... Some animals have higher brain function an cognitive ability than some humans.

no lol, even disabled humans tend to have a much higher intelligence than your typical animal

when I refer to basic brain function, I mean the ability to move your limbs and act independently. If you can do that as a human, you are alive and that right shouldnt be stripped from you

I am with you, even unto the end of the age
last edit on 6/16/2019 9:09:40 AM
Posts: 33367
0 votes RE: Change my mind
Kestrel said: 
Kestrel said: 

It always comes to where conception is for me. I do not believe in abortion once there are brain functions, heartbeat and moving limbs. Before, sure.

All three of those at once, or just any one of those?

I still say it's not "alive" until it's actually had some life experience outside of the mother. It's not really consciousness before then, it's just automatic feeding tube behaviors. 

That's not a good criteria. A person with dementia or memory loss has no memorable life experiences or ones that count. 

At least the heartbeat one makes sense. 

 Lol, so you're discrediting people with dementia with basic brain functions. Not the case, even though they have bad memory those are complex actions that most mammals, let alone animals couldnt do. 

Heart beat is redundant because the heart cells literally evolve as a clump of cells before a developed brain. The heart is nothing in terms of intelligence, developed brain is what seperates humanity from ants and flys. I mentioned it as a sense of progression to add a level of humanization to fetuses

I think for people like this they question when "the soul" is a factor, which is "when life begins". 

Many I've spoken with see a seperation between "The Brain" and "The Soul". It leads to interesting talks, such as if they'd be held accountable for their "sins" when they've been brain damaged or lobotomized. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
10 / 51 posts
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