Sociopath Community

TL;DR the reality is that any sentient life given a fair and honest choice between being tortured in hell for eternity, and to live purged of sin and serving God but alive and not suffering in eternal torment, would choose not to be tortured in hell for eternity, period.

wanting humans to have free will to not want to choose that and to want to choose to be with you in heaven instead, doesn't involve creating a scenario where sinning feels good and pleasurable and is often times rewarded, and only occasionally has bad consequences, and it also doesn't involve forcing humans to have to continue to be compelled to sin even after consciously choosing to want to stop sinning completely.

A God who loves his creation and hates sin, wouldn't ever create this "battle" scenario lmfao. All it takes is a simple choice.............No I don't want to be tortured in hell for eternity and without your presence, and yes I would like you to purge me of all sin so I can live happily in heaven with you

It doesn't require a long drawn out life, with sin feeling pleasurable and good and being rewarded a lot of the time and tricking people and deception and lies. And any all powerful, all knowing and all benevolent creator would never create such a scenario, when a simple one time choice that minimizes sin down to once per sentient being would suffice.

give any sentient being a taste of what the Bible describes hell as being like, and even the most evil of people would be like okay okay, fuck this shit, purge me of sin

creating sin to feel pleasurable and be rewarded, if it is something that leads to being eternally tortured in a Lake of Fire with no chance of escape is not only deception but fucking pure evil lol

Take the Queen witch disguised as the old hag from Snow White for example. She gives Snow White a beautiful red apple, and leads Snow White to believe that the apple will be delicious and healthy for her, but it's poisoned by the Queen witch and it kills her.

does anyone think the evil Queen is good and benevolent lol. No. and as humans, infused with the knowledge of good and evil and the ability to discern good from evil it is up to us to decide to worship a deceitful, lying God or not.

God allowing sinners to feel pleasure and prosper and be rewarded is evil. It's deceiving them that their way of life is correct. why would wanting human beings you created to use their free will to love you have to involve deceiving them? using free will to choose doesnt have to include being deceived, and why should it include being deceived

Why am I supposed to trust in a deceptive God? What else is he lying about? is he lying about hell, and creating everything in existence too? Is he lying about existing?

Turq, if you are having a meltdown about modern christianity you should know that American Protestantism (tm) isn't anything close to what is started as. Look back to the origins. Early mesopotamian polytheism, zorostrianism, the transition in jewish texts from polytheism to monotheism and then the roman influence on christianity.

A lot of what you seem to be upset about is that American brand christianity is just a shitty photocopy where none of the meaning made it along the way, and people are just using catch phrases like "Don't commit sin"

I was addressing Faethers because she buys into the American brand Christianity

secular humanist said: 

I was addressing Faethers because she buys into the American brand Christianity

Most Compelling Argument Against Christianity

American Christianity is hardly christianity.

for Feathers or anyone who wants to read it

 These are more than a series of questions and doubts than a compelling argument.

secular humanist said: 

If God was a benevolent god, and wanted us to have the free will to choose him..........

Why would he allow sin to be attractive to us? To feel good? To be interesting to us and pleasurable for us and often times rewarded and only occasionally have negative consequences?

What's attractive is not sin, but the reward at the end of the episode. If you want something you can earn it or steal it. If you're a whore down the road you may find it wasn't worth it like so many porn stars suggest. Sex becomes less pleasurable down the road and even morso when you set yourself up to be dissatisfied with anything other than promiscuity. Otherwise you'll find yourself spoiled and heavily reliant on fresh fish while you degrade over the years.

Sex is good, and it's okay to do, but too much of anything becomes an addiction and with that comes problems. 

Why would he not just make this life completely miserable and hell-like, and give us a chance to cry out for him? or at the very least, make sinning consistently have immediate horrible consequences, so that we would free will choose every time to avoid sinning? and on that line of reasoning once we make the conscious choice to want to stop sinning, why wouldnt he immediately bring us to heaven to be with him right then as soon as we made that choice?

You weren't ready and look. You sin again.

Positive and negative actions do have immediate rewards and consequences, consequences of which you can handle on the most part.

If there will be nothing pleasurable after we die if we never consciously choose to stop sinning, if we are sent to hell, why create us to feel pleasure from and be rewarded for sinning in this life?

You say if. Where does that come from ?

Again we don't take pleasure in sin, we take pleasure in outcome aside from the principal. Interestingly though we tend to be more boastful when we make gains without having to kill or steal or burn bridges. 

Why does there need to be an intermediary life between hell and how is creating sin to feel pleasurable and rewarding in this life, fair and moral and just? Benevolent?

Maybe I should have attached this sentence to the last quote. Life is a tribulation, and accordingly we'll be sorted out. 

And to really hit home the point, put yourself in the perspective of a father/mother, if you knew your child whom you loved very much would die and be sent to hell if he or she disobeyed you

Part of why we're here is to make mistakes. The wiser we are, the more good or bad karma we bring upon ourselves simply for knowing better. Some might argue children do not intuitively know right from wrong, except when they are being abused, then all of a sudden they would agree the child knows right from wrong. Children who are mentally more mature than their peers, are admirable and are more prone to making their parents proud while impressing others, as opposed to a child that matures slowly.

Would you set up a scenario where disobeying you felt good and pleasurable and was often times rewarded, so that they would feel encouraged to disobey you and die?

When I was a child, an 18 wheeler parked in front of my home. I was staring at the vehicle when my Father randomly told me not to pass under it. I thought to myself, well the truck isn't even on, so after some minutes I felt adventurous and passed under the truck. My Father then hung me by the foot with one arm, and broke my ass with a 2x4. Long story short, children passing under 18 wheelers is a liability. 

Passing under the truck felt good. Maybe I was 5. I do believe sparing the rod is how parents lead their mischievous children astray, and the parents have to punish their children for the right reasons, not the wrong ones. A parent who was abusive knows why their children grew up to dislike them. In my case I know why my Father broke my ass, and we laughed about it.

Or would you set up a scenario where disobeying you feels completely painful, just like what an eternity in hell would be like, and then tell them all you have to do is cry out for you to save them and they would instantly be saved and with you in heaven forever?

It's not a matter of dominating our children, a good parent wants their children to be better than they are. In the end It's more about guidance than obedience, as a grown up requiring their parents command is a sad thing.

I've looked into a lot of NDE stuff, and if what they say is true, people in hell curse God, while some are so ashamed in God's presence they feel they don't belong. 

As an all powerful, all knowing, and righteously benevolent and loving creator who saw human beings as your children whom you loved, but you wanted them to have free will to choose you after knowing what life without you would feel like.......which scenario would you set up?

and please don't default to "God works in mysterious ways, his ways are not our ways, we are not capable of understanding what righteousness and good are"

To answer your question. Taking them by force wouldn't be free will. And you don't believe in immediate consequences.

When you're all knowing. You have ultimate consciousness. You'd be so empathic you would feel what you do to others. You would also appreciate if your creations weren't so blind.

Life is part of our making, and when your soul is filled with sin, it cannot coexist comfortably in the same place as good souls. In that life we do have a raised awareness, where lies don't work. If you're petty the entire civilization there will see it. There are no secrets in heaven, and supposedly God can take away our shame.

If you're acceptable, you can coexist shamelessly in a place like heaven. But take away the shame of a sinful soul, and they'll lack the principals to exist in heaven for an eternity as they will bring hell to the inhabitants of heaven. Eternity. It's not like an itch you can leave alone for awhile, or it's not like coping with an ache or a pain. It is eternity, and no one is having that kind bullshit in heaven.

If you're a thief or a killer or a liar, or whatever, you're what you've made of yourself in spirit and your environment will contain that kind of company.

 Well first of all, the whole point of eating from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil was so that we would have the knowledge of good and evil, right?

 How would I be able to choose "righteousness" if I as a human being didn't have the capacity to understand right from wrong, and good from evil? Isnt that the entire point? To instill in us a "holy spirit" and "discernment" to know what is good and what is evil?

 
Knowing good and evil is burdensome and just learning about it right now would be unbearably reality shattering. We never knew shame either, now look at us, the only creatures in the world concealing our genitals. Sometimes we tell lies to manipulate situations, because it might work better for us, while other times some things are just better off being unknown.

Now out of the 2 scenarios I gave you the choice of, which one is the good one, and which one makes no logical sense and is evil?

 If you believe free will is a good thing, or if you think knowledge is a good thing, then it would seem logical for us to have the option to disobey, that we did and it came at a price. I don't think it would have been a good thing not to have that option. ( Still. Damn you Eve ! )

ALSO: In the bible it says God created everything, Including Satan and evil, and allows Satan and evil, and has even promoted and forced evil such as hardening pharaohs heart etc etc.

 Why not ? This is all temporary.

Did you know, when the stars in the universe burn out, it will be dark ? And the amount of time the universe had light, will be less than a blip compared to how long it will remain in dark ?

With that in mind, letting shit play out is REALLY nice. Otherwise we would settle for much less. Besides when we're done here, the cleanup crew will be dispatched, and we'll know of the opportunity we had to make ourselves.

This is the ultimate thing that I do not understand about Christianity. This entire post I have just written out.

If you are able to give me an answer that makes sense, not excluding any of what I wrote out, then I would be open to reconsidering Christianity.

 I have a dislike for religion cause it's boring, and I think it's been perverted. If Christ appeared right now he will damn the Vatican and how Christianity is ran. His way wouldn't be holding onto billions of dollars and precious materials when it could be put to better use.

These paintings and statues that represent Christ or Mary. He's not impressed with that stuff either, while Yahweh is straight up irritated when people kneel down to those art pieces. Cause they are false. 

Creating us human beings to be helplessly slaves to our own sinful nature, to the point where even giving your life to Jesus and being "filled with the holy spirit" doesnt allow you to stop sinning, but only helps you sin "less", doesn't make sense to me.

 
A little bullshit is acceptable. Maybe it even prevents boredom, but don't take my word for it.

As a parent, if I had complete control over my child and I wanted them to use their free will to obey me so that they didn't go to hell, I would let them sin one time, let that sin feel horrible and negative, not pleasurable at all (why would I create and let something feel temporarily pleasurable that would lead to permanent torture?) and then cry out to me to save them, and I would and then I would have them permanently in heaven with me after that.

 
We don't like when people do us wrong, and people don't like when they've been wronged either. Eventually your children will choose for themselves when they're older. I do believe we can change what's been instilled in us from childhood. Like many, myself and my siblings are very different from one another in principal.

Especially, If I hated sin, I would not let my children keep sinning even though they made the conscious choice to want to stop. I would immediately take them to heaven to be with me, not leave them on earth to keep sinning over and over again even though they dont want to but can't control it like what the fuck.

This is me using my human ability to know good from evil that according to the Bible every human being has, and discernment.

 Yes. We're intuitive when it comes to knowing right from wrong. Some argue there is no good and evil, yet they are capable of passing a basic exam questioning what is considered good and bad, then pass it off as something lesser, like memory.

Anyway, I think you're asking good questions, and people should scrutinize this kind of stuff. In my opinion the Lord finds favor in people who use their heads instead of blindly going forward. Go with what makes sense to you, and practice the Golden Rule. It's good for living conditions and if this shit is real, you'll win again.

secular humanist said: 

for Feathers or anyone who wants to read it, you don't have to read it so if you're not interested in Christianity then just ignore

Such a weird statement to make.