Oh, didn't see you'd replied.
I mean so is staying alive really... kinda damned if you do damned if you don't there.
Suicide is more selfish, under normal circumstances. Obviously. Don't be autistic. This reply shouldn't even exist.
How is it more selfish beyond hurting a few people's feelings?
Why does it have to be more than that? If you devalue it because all it does is affect fee-fees, then you should be reminded that most suicide just relivies your fee-fees.
In the end that pain you're causing them doesn't really matter. They're both about "fee-fees", so the feelings portion's fairly moot, as either it's about a guy living with crippling "fee-fees" and spreading it as a toxic influence upon those they meet, or having others be afflicted by them as a matter of shock-based emotional contagion or whatever.
Not even edgelording, you won't be thinking a lick about it when you're dead (even within most faiths), and those who'd care will most likely die within the next 50 or so years. Unless it's a close loved one or something, those left alive to face what happened tend to respond to it based on themselves more than the victim.
Suicide can't be accomplished intelligently?
No, because you die.
Why is dying dumb?
Perhaps there is a benefit to death, for example yours would satisfy me.
I'm just stating that it's not really "smart" or "dumb", it simply is. How "intelligent" the suicide is is a matter of independent context and relative opinion, like how it can be handled for Kevorkian methods for example instead of just doing a bullet to the brain on a whim.
Speaking from experience, it takes real willpower and dedication to kill yourself.
I'm mostly alive from failing to break my own "will to live" down enough to succeed. It takes real commitment (or passion) to get it done, I'd never claim it's easy.
You need to cheat your instincts for a few moments unless you pick some hard suicide methods. I have not killed myself, so I can't be sure, but I have cheated my instincts.
If I'm to go, it can't be a trick like that.
It couldn't be taking pills that would poison me after changing my mind. It couldn't be a bullet as a moment of passion to fight my urge to survive stopping it. It couldn't be jumping off a cliff.
If it's sudden or otherwise accomplished by putting elements outside of my own control, it strikes me as irresponsible suicide.
When it wasn't some stupid moment of passion crap, when more motivated over it I tried going through starving. I made sure to leave a vitamin water bottle in reach in multiple spots so that I could make the choice of not dying should that occur during such a fugue. While I find my use of that keeping me alive shameful, I'd see leaving no way out of my choice as even more so.
The only responsible suicide is if you have physical or mental damage beyond repair. If you can't be cured then I can understand. Altho if it's just physical I am still skeptical if you are not just too weak to handle it, but I couldn't judge well enough without being there and I do not wish to be there.
In the words of Fatboy Slim, "Why Try Harder?".
I get judging someone for their perceived weaknesses in relation to your own status, but what makes them killing themselves bad beyond sentiment?
If they're "too weak to handle it", why not go out for that reason? Why should potential matter beyond our own?
From my point of view, the selfishness is actually on the people who make someone live in pain because they guilt trip them into continuing against all instinct. I would definitely try to help anyone I care about try to overcome whatever their problem is (if it wasn't an intractable one). But I wouldn't feel like they were being self-centered by taking their own life. That line of reasoning comes off to me as massive entitlement.
Memes aside, I hope Lena was just looking for an out from this community and said those things to that end.
Oh but they are selfish, it does not matter how you view the selfishness of the others. They are both selfish. Except you pity the victims, aka they manipulate your emotions.
It works relatively though, unless you go down the "Everything people do is selfish" tunnel.
I personally see someone relieving their own pain as less shameful and gross than people's misinformed entitlement over other people's self-harm. What people do to themselves is a personal choice (until the psych wards step in anyway).
Others are at the mercy of the suicider in this scenario as the suicider is in control of taking their life.
Now when you say "in control", I assume you mean just individual autonomy right, like they're otherwise semi-functional? I don't really see suicidal behavior as being within one's control, even beyond a general Deterministic standpoint.
I believe people should be able to decide on if they live or die, it's their own lives, but that they ought to have a period of time before they can act on it to reduce irresponsible impulse deaths. If someone persistently sees no reason to stay alive in pain, I don't see how it's okay to have people guilt tripping already wounded people, but I do understand giving someone a trial period of sorts to see if surrounding care could be enough for them.
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