Sociopath Community

For some reason I always end up dating academics, and it always amazes me how many narcissists/psychos it attracts considering it’s so much work for relatively little pay and a lot of these people could be making so much more in the private sector. And the office politics seems so unnecessary and it all seems so removed from everyday life, it’d absolutely do my head in. 

looking at this from the outside, if I’ve understood right that you’re basically employing these people and they’re working from home after you’ve told them they have to come in, that is insane and you’re absolutely right to be tough about that, there is no other industry in the world that would put up with that shit 

i have a few different thoughts about what you wrote

firstly—it can be difficult to get everyone on the same page, when they are all working remotely. for that reason, remote work companies are often using Slack and Zoom. there is a certain enforcement pattern to these tools, so that people are made to be communicating and cooperating. it can be made to be a fun thing too. like 2 or 3x a week...1st meeting is the agenda, goals, and thoughts/Q&R. second meeting is shorter and a bit more fun (perhaps people can post ideas for what it will be next week), third meeting is a wrap up + discussion

people get comfortable; it is what it is. on a practical level, especially with "intellectual" types, there is often going to be some friction around the socializing. but unfortunately, when you are in a group of people working toward something, having a bunch of atomic units acting independently is going to be counterproductive. on a deeper level, it is perhaps even harmful to those engaging in avoidant behavior

there is also a sort of problem with "intellectuals" in general. people on the higher end of the reasoning spectrum can become some of the most obtuse and conceited people, because they become used to being the smartest person in most rooms. the other day i was in a call with some folks talking about how we budget out tokens with some different AI models, and this dude came in and right off the rip tried to be demeaning, "oh, there are just deeper things to talk about than which model". it was like yes...it's not a deep topic, we are talking about something practical to us, and having a laugh. and he just kept trying to hijack things, turn it into his moment as the library of alexandria in his gay ass head, because models are just so uninteresting! people become rigid and egotistic

so there is perhaps hope that if it is possible to use more socializing tools for the offline work, things can get turned around. and it can be made fun! doesn't have to be a chore

but the way you write, also sounds like someone who has effectively been "boxed into" something, and your vitals are apparently reflecting it. i would say there is open-source work, as well as professional programming work, which is probably adjacent to what you are doing. your background lends itself to a lot of opportunities in different fields. if anything, take a break

Tryptamine said: 

i have a few different thoughts about what you wrote

firstly—it can be difficult to get everyone on the same page, when they are all working remotely. for that reason, remote work companies are often using Slack and Zoom. there is a certain enforcement pattern to these tools, so that people are made to be communicating and cooperating. it can be made to be a fun thing too. like 2 or 3x a week...1st meeting is the agenda, goals, and thoughts/Q&R. second meeting is shorter and a bit more fun (perhaps people can post ideas for what it will be next week), third meeting is a wrap up + discussion

people get comfortable; it is what it is. on a practical level, especially with "intellectual" types, there is often going to be some friction around the socializing. but unfortunately, when you are in a group of people working toward something, having a bunch of atomic units acting independently is going to be counterproductive. on a deeper level, it is perhaps even harmful to those engaging in avoidant behavior

there is also a sort of problem with "intellectuals" in general. people on the higher end of the reasoning spectrum can become some of the most obtuse and conceited people, because they become used to being the smartest person in most rooms. the other day i was in a call with some folks talking about how we budget out tokens with some different AI models, and this dude came in and right off the rip tried to be demeaning, "oh, there are just deeper things to talk about than which model". it was like yes...it's not a deep topic, we are talking about something practical to us, and having a laugh. and he just kept trying to hijack things, turn it into his moment as the library of alexandria in his gay ass head, because models are just so uninteresting! people become rigid and egotistic

Slack and Zoom can help coordination, but forcing more communication does not make it useful. Clear goals, documentation, and handoffs matter more than three scheduled meetings a week. Working independently is not inherently counterproductive. It only becomes a problem when the work requires coordination and that coordination is missing. Calling reluctance to socialize “avoidant behavior” also pathologizes a work preference without evidence.

The point about intellectuals is based on one conceited person, so it does not support a general claim. It is also contradictory to criticize him for imposing his preferred conversation while proposing enforced social participation for others.

Gypsy said: 

For some reason I always end up dating academics, and it always amazes me how many narcissists/psychos it attracts considering it’s so much work for relatively little pay and a lot of these people could be making so much more in the private sector. And the office politics seems so unnecessary and it all seems so removed from everyday life, it’d absolutely do my head in. 

looking at this from the outside, if I’ve understood right that you’re basically employing these people and they’re working from home after you’ve told them they have to come in, that is insane and you’re absolutely right to be tough about that, there is no other industry in the world that would put up with that shit 

You seem to be turning a few personal experiences into sweeping conclusions about academics, then treating an employment situation you admit you only partly understand as obvious. Calling people “narcissists/psychos” because academia has office politics and lower pay is not analysis, and “no other industry would tolerate that” is plainly exaggerated. Plenty of industries use remote or hybrid arrangements, and whether someone must come in depends on the actual contract, role, and management structure, not your irritation with academics.

Dragoonback said: 

Tryptamine said: 

i have a few different thoughts about what you wrote

firstly—it can be difficult to get everyone on the same page, when they are all working remotely. for that reason, remote work companies are often using Slack and Zoom. there is a certain enforcement pattern to these tools, so that people are made to be communicating and cooperating. it can be made to be a fun thing too. like 2 or 3x a week...1st meeting is the agenda, goals, and thoughts/Q&R. second meeting is shorter and a bit more fun (perhaps people can post ideas for what it will be next week), third meeting is a wrap up + discussion

people get comfortable; it is what it is. on a practical level, especially with "intellectual" types, there is often going to be some friction around the socializing. but unfortunately, when you are in a group of people working toward something, having a bunch of atomic units acting independently is going to be counterproductive. on a deeper level, it is perhaps even harmful to those engaging in avoidant behavior

there is also a sort of problem with "intellectuals" in general. people on the higher end of the reasoning spectrum can become some of the most obtuse and conceited people, because they become used to being the smartest person in most rooms. the other day i was in a call with some folks talking about how we budget out tokens with some different AI models, and this dude came in and right off the rip tried to be demeaning, "oh, there are just deeper things to talk about than which model". it was like yes...it's not a deep topic, we are talking about something practical to us, and having a laugh. and he just kept trying to hijack things, turn it into his moment as the library of alexandria in his gay ass head, because models are just so uninteresting! people become rigid and egotistic

Slack and Zoom can help coordination, but forcing more communication does not make it useful. Clear goals, documentation, and handoffs matter more than three scheduled meetings a week. Working independently is not inherently counterproductive. It only becomes a problem when the work requires coordination and that coordination is missing. Calling reluctance to socialize “avoidant behavior” also pathologizes a work preference without evidence.

The point about intellectuals is based on one conceited person, so it does not support a general claim. It is also contradictory to criticize him for imposing his preferred conversation while proposing enforced social participation for others.

all i am hearing is that you would hate being on zoom

also there is a possibility he is such a conceited person, but actually Legga has always struck me as moderately social. but i know his field is packed full of self-certified geniuses. mostly because you can't be stupid to do that work

Tryptamine said: 

all i am hearing is that you would hate being on zoom

also there is a possibility he is such a conceited person, but actually Legga has always struck me as moderately social. but i know his field is packed full of self-certified geniuses. mostly because you can't be stupid to do that work

That is not what I said. I said mandatory communication is only useful when it solves an actual coordination problem. Reducing that to “you would hate being on Zoom” avoids the distinction between productive meetings and enforced social activity. And saying a field contains many “self-certified geniuses” because the work requires intelligence still does not support your generalization. Being capable of difficult work does not make someone conceited, socially avoidant, or in need of forced interaction. You are still moving from a few impressions to a broad psychological explanation without enough evidence.

Dragoonback said: 

Tryptamine said: 

all i am hearing is that you would hate being on zoom

also there is a possibility he is such a conceited person, but actually Legga has always struck me as moderately social. but i know his field is packed full of self-certified geniuses. mostly because you can't be stupid to do that work

That is not what I said. I said mandatory communication is only useful when it solves an actual coordination problem. Reducing that to “you would hate being on Zoom” avoids the distinction between productive meetings and enforced social activity. And saying a field contains many “self-certified geniuses” because the work requires intelligence still does not support your generalization. Being capable of difficult work does not make someone conceited, socially avoidant, or in need of forced interaction. You are still moving from a few impressions to a broad psychological explanation without enough evidence.

say that to my face on zoom

Tryptamine said: 

say that to my face on zoom

 I am a bit ugly so I would rather not.

Cisco Engineers potentially hold several disvaluable perspectives that could precipitate the inherent malfunctioning of the softwares such as Zoom. that the experience of “absolute” music (music that does not seek to imitate the phenomenal world and is unaccompanied by narrative or text), occurs in time, but does not involve any of the other cognitive conditions on experience. Thus, like the feeling of embodiment, Schopenhauer believes the experience of non pragmatic physics brings us epistemically closer to the essence of the world as will—it is as direct an experience of the will qua thing in itself as is possible for a human being to have. Absolutely direct experience of the will is impossible, because it will always be mediated by time, but in navigating the political landscape of experience of volition and the experience of the thing in itself is no longer veiled by our other forms of cognitive conditioning. This can be observed when Zoom calls become filled with ludicrous inabilities to facilitate adequate communication due to several users deepfaking and running automated shifting imagery of themselves keyed into patterns in the room to observably dictate the conversation which complicates scientific progress. Thus, these experiences are epistemically distinctive and metaphysically significant.

Consequently, Indeed, many such structural analogies often occur in bad principles of design for scientific dialectic between machine and man: between various inane arguments over model comparisons of AI and the lower grades of objectification of the AGI and its potentialities to dominate the entire scientific field just getting to the point; between heirarchical scientific pragmatism and the human being’s “most secret story,” that is, “every emotion, every striving, every movement of the will, everything that reason collects under the broad and negative concept of feeling” (WWII applications of physics); vital physics algorrhythms for mechanical engineering and everything else under the sun analogous to easy, common happiness, while the allegro maestoso corresponds to grand, noble strivings after distant goals; the “inexhaustibility” of possible melodies is analogous to the “inexhaustibility of nature in the variety of individuals, physiognomies and life histories.

Consequently, Zoom offers plausibility for functional physics discussion to be had but there are other options.

Does God want us to build "systems" to keep everything on track. What "is" research? 

Gypsy said: 

For some reason I always end up dating academics, and it always amazes me how many narcissists/psychos it attracts considering it’s so much work for relatively little pay and a lot of these people could be making so much more in the private sector. And the office politics seems so unnecessary and it all seems so removed from everyday life, it’d absolutely do my head in. 

looking at this from the outside, if I’ve understood right that you’re basically employing these people and they’re working from home after you’ve told them they have to come in, that is insane and you’re absolutely right to be tough about that, there is no other industry in the world that would put up with that shit 

Thanks. Yes, the politics is a nightmare. When I first signed up I thought that science was this noble pursuit that attracts great pure minds working towards bettering society and understanding where we come from. There are those who really do try, but science seems to also attract some of the worst people.

Tryptamine said: 

i have a few different thoughts about what you wrote

firstly—it can be difficult to get everyone on the same page, when they are all working remotely. for that reason, remote work companies are often using Slack and Zoom. there is a certain enforcement pattern to these tools, so that people are made to be communicating and cooperating. it can be made to be a fun thing too. like 2 or 3x a week...1st meeting is the agenda, goals, and thoughts/Q&R. second meeting is shorter and a bit more fun (perhaps people can post ideas for what it will be next week), third meeting is a wrap up + discussion

people get comfortable; it is what it is. on a practical level, especially with "intellectual" types, there is often going to be some friction around the socializing. but unfortunately, when you are in a group of people working toward something, having a bunch of atomic units acting independently is going to be counterproductive. on a deeper level, it is perhaps even harmful to those engaging in avoidant behavior

The independent atomic units is definitely a problem. 

there is also a sort of problem with "intellectuals" in general. people on the higher end of the reasoning spectrum can become some of the most obtuse and conceited people, because they become used to being the smartest person in most rooms. the other day i was in a call with some folks talking about how we budget out tokens with some different AI models, and this dude came in and right off the rip tried to be demeaning, "oh, there are just deeper things to talk about than which model". it was like yes...it's not a deep topic, we are talking about something practical to us, and having a laugh. and he just kept trying to hijack things, turn it into his moment as the library of alexandria in his gay ass head, because models are just so uninteresting! people become rigid and egotistic

That sounds like a socializing issue. We have those as well, but generally I can deal with it over time. 

so there is perhaps hope that if it is possible to use more socializing tools for the offline work, things can get turned around. and it can be made fun! doesn't have to be a chore

but the way you write, also sounds like someone who has effectively been "boxed into" something, and your vitals are apparently reflecting it. i would say there is open-source work, as well as professional programming work, which is probably adjacent to what you are doing. your background lends itself to a lot of opportunities in different fields. if anything, take a break

Yeah I ought to take a break... I think I need to take myself off work this weekend. Somehow my schedule is so packed I dont have time to think. I am in need of a vacation. Honestly, I'm really tired.

I appreciate that you took the time to post.