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Turncoat: key life philosophy


Posts: 515

Do you have anything you consider important that you haven't already discussed with this forum?

I never really discuss matters that really matter to me, and it seems to me like everyone does that. I think there's a level of depth to every person that is difficult to reach. I find the innate person that lives inside everyone infinitely interesting, but only if it's real and not a front. It feels like the person has something to offer.

My second question is do you view those things you keep close to you as a kind of a currency? As in, you share something, and people owe you? Or do you take more the Jesus attitude where you expose yourself to the public and ask nothing in return? I.e., are your relationships transactional or do you kind of just wing it?

last edit on 3/12/2025 11:09:43 AM
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0 votes RE: Turncoat: key life philosophy

Most of the things I haven't brought up here have been over the others involved rather than myself. I'm otherwise not actively keeping some sort of queue over the things I haven't said here yet, that'd be weird. 

While I don't do things for other people because of wanting to have them feel like they owe me, I tend to see 'favors' or whatever as a Balancing Scale if I am the one that's lagging behind. It's more of a matter of reciprocity upkeep, I don't want to feel like I owe someone, but I'm not really going out of my way to put them in that position so much as aiming to avoid finding myself in that situation. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 515
0 votes RE: Turncoat: key life philosophy

Most of the things I haven't brought up here have been over the others involved rather than myself. I'm otherwise not actively keeping some sort of queue over the things I haven't said here yet, that'd be weird. 

Queue would be weird because it implies planning but I was more asking if there are important things that you hold close enough that you'd feel reluctant to share.

 

While I don't do things for other people because of wanting to have them feel like they owe me, I tend to see 'favors' or whatever as a Balancing Scale if I am the one that's lagging behind. It's more of a matter of reciprocity upkeep, I don't want to feel like I owe someone, but I'm not really going out of my way to put them in that position so much as aiming to avoid finding myself in that situation.

Ok so transactional normie. Got it.

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0 votes RE: Turncoat: key life philosophy

Do you not find it annoying to feel like you owe someone? 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 515
0 votes RE: Turncoat: key life philosophy

Do you not find it annoying to feel like you owe someone?

I rather feel more attached to the person if I owe them in the sense that you're using the word.

Take for example my father in law. He gave me and my wife a house. I was very happy to accept it, without giving anything in return, and I'm very attached to him now.

The thing is I don't feel like I owe anything to people who give me gifts. It's their choice if they want to give me something. If they want something in return, they should state it explicitly.

Small gifts are even more inconsequential.

Some people do feel like I owe them. My sister was annoyed that I didn't pay for her dinner when she left her wallet home on the basis that she paid for my dinner several times. She never told me I'd need to pay for her dinner in return.

On this forum, both Inquirer and SensitiveSoul insisted I post my picture and some vocaroo clips on the basis that they posted theirs because I asked them to. They also never said anything about their photos coming with strings attached.

Don't you think it's a bit like trying to cheat if someone gives you something and there's this innuendo that you'll need to give them something in return? Why do you feel like you owe people anything?

last edit on 3/15/2025 10:41:41 AM
Posts: 33616
0 votes RE: Turncoat: key life philosophy

So you... feel no need to reciprocate? Weird. 

Giving back feels like the right thing to do, while not doing so seems selfish to me. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 3/15/2025 2:30:27 PM
Posts: 515
0 votes RE: Turncoat: key life philosophy

So you... feel no need to reciprocate? Weird. 

Giving back feels like the right thing to do, while not doing so seems selfish to me.

Reciprocation is different.

If I give you a gift, you shouldn't feel the need to put it on a black book that you now owe me.

If someone is nice to me, I am naturally nice to them. However, I'm nice to them because I feel like it. That's reciprocation.

However, if you feel like you need to give something back, what they've done is not nice to you. What they've done is put you into debt. Don't you think?

If I give you 10 dollars, will you feel like you owe me? It seems to me like you'd be easy to lord over if that's the case. What if I didn't accept the 10 dollars back and instead asked you for something else of roughly equal worth to me?

last edit on 3/16/2025 3:59:03 AM
Posts: 33616
0 votes RE: Turncoat: key life philosophy
Jada said: 

So you... feel no need to reciprocate? Weird. 

Giving back feels like the right thing to do, while not doing so seems selfish to me.

Reciprocation is different.

If I give you a gift, you shouldn't feel the need to put it on a black book that you now owe me.

See, I prefer to have this carried on the back of empathic hypocrisy: I don't expect others to get me things when I get them things because I got it for them because I thought they would like it, but if others get me things then, inevitably, they might get me a second thing and now I'm two gifts deep in that social burial. Where I might have just spontaneously bought something before, having been gifted something gives me openings for reciprocation typically during holidays. If I really like the thing they got me, then I'm twice as deep in owing them because they made a good pick. 

Certain tendencies and behaviors have a means of not just demonstrating how one acts, but cobbles a sort of social karma out of the habits. What people expect out of you filters people in and out of your life as long as you're putting yourself out there, and being seen as someone who is 'Selfish' or 'Thankless' is pretty shitty. It's bad enough to not give back, but it's worse to let it become a habit, and if anything receiving a gift is a good reminder over the lack done for them. 

If someone is nice to me, I am naturally nice to them. However, I'm nice to them because I feel like it. That's reciprocation. However, if you feel like you need to give something back, what they've done is not nice to you. What they've done is put you into debt. Don't you think?

It's the same thing for the most part, you're giving back affection or favors because they had done so first. The only real difference here is that socializing didn't have a price tag. 

When a gift is too imposing, I'll usually turn it down for being 'Too Much'. If they aren't getting something out of my having the thing then the uphill becomes too daunting for repayment. Meanwhile if someone bought me something cooperative, like a multiplayer game they also play or a ticket to an event or something, then I at least feel obligated to do these things with them so that we both get something out of it as my paying it back (even if it's something I might not enjoy doing the first few times). 

If I give you 10 dollars, will you feel like you owe me? It seems to me like you'd be easy to lord over if that's the case. What if I didn't accept the 10 dollars back and instead asked you for something else of roughly equal worth to me?

Once you'd refuse reciprocity, through these means rather than being that insistently humble, I'd be under the impression that what you wanted out of those $10.00 was the power to lord it over someone. 

Have that go into the thousands or millions and you'll see that you effectively described how Med tries to bind Chapo. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 3/16/2025 4:12:33 PM
Posts: 515
0 votes RE: Turncoat: key life philosophy

See, I prefer to have this carried on the back of empathic hypocrisy: I don't expect others to get me things when I get them things because I got it for them because I thought they would like it, but if others get me things then, inevitably, they might get me a second thing and now I'm two gifts deep in that social burial. Where I might have just spontaneously bought something before, having been gifted something gives me openings for reciprocation typically during holidays. If I really like the thing they got me, then I'm twice as deep in owing them because they made a good pick. 

Don't you ever feel like you deserve it? Like, you feel like you got it because you deserved it.

 

> Certain tendencies and behaviors have a means of not just demonstrating how one acts, but cobbles a sort of social karma out of the habits. What people expect out of you filters people in and out of your life as long as you're putting yourself out there, and being seen as someone who is 'Selfish' or 'Thankless' is pretty shitty. It's bad enough to not give back, but it's worse to let it become a habit, and if anything receiving a gift is a good reminder over the lack done for them. 

Would you accept a house as a gift from your parents? Or would you feel like they'd own you if you accepted it?

My PhD supervisor back in the day suggested I buy a house and ask if my parents could downpay the first house. I chuckled.

 

> It's the same thing for the most part, you're giving back affection or favors because they had done so first. The only real difference here is that socializing didn't have a price tag. 

No I don't. I do it because I feel like it. I feel like it because they did it. It's different. One case is true reciprocation, the other case is calculated. In order to reciprocate, you need to be unaware of your actions.

> When a gift is too imposing, I'll usually turn it down for being 'Too Much'. If they aren't getting something out of my having the thing then the uphill becomes too daunting for repayment. Meanwhile if someone bought me something cooperative, like a multiplayer game they also play or a ticket to an event or something, then I at least feel obligated to do these things with them so that we both get something out of it as my paying it back (even if it's something I might not enjoy doing the first few times). 

Is that because you don't like them and feel that they think your friendship with them is deeper than it really is?

 

> Once you'd refuse reciprocity, through these means rather than being that insistently humble, I'd be under the impression that what you wanted out of those $10.00 was the power to lord it over someone. 

> Have that go into the thousands or millions and you'll see that you effectively described how Med tries to bind Chapo. 

Lol . Does it work?

Posts: 33616
0 votes RE: Turncoat: key life philosophy
Jada said: 

See, I prefer to have this carried on the back of empathic hypocrisy: I don't expect others to get me things when I get them things because I got it for them because I thought they would like it, but if others get me things then, inevitably, they might get me a second thing and now I'm two gifts deep in that social burial. Where I might have just spontaneously bought something before, having been gifted something gives me openings for reciprocation typically during holidays. If I really like the thing they got me, then I'm twice as deep in owing them because they made a good pick. 

Don't you ever feel like you deserve it? Like, you feel like you got it because you deserved it.

lol, no? I don't feel entitled to  anything  most things* in the sense of feeling like it was deserved or earned, and having that mindset seems gross and narcy to me. The only 'deserved' things are reciprocity, and that's moreover what I owe them than how I feel they ought to 'treat me' or whatever like some sort of Diva. 

If they got me something nice, then they deserve something nice for their trouble, and even fairly bad or off-the-mark gifts still show me they appreciated me or whatever enough to think of me independent of me bringing myself to their attention more literally. Them thinking of me without my prompting them to is part of the gift. Even a small gesture like someone bringing me flowers is really nice, or even something like when my cat brought me a mouse when I was starving myself. 

Not everyone's love form is gift giving but showing love is still nice, I'm not rich so I generally won't do it first, and after enough times not giving eachother gifts I tend to just assume that's "the nature of the relationship". One sided gift giving tends to give the impression of the relationship itself being one sided, while one between two peers has them go dutch in a healthier way. 

Certain tendencies and behaviors have a means of not just demonstrating how one acts, but cobbles a sort of social karma out of the habits. What people expect out of you filters people in and out of your life as long as you're putting yourself out there, and being seen as someone who is 'Selfish' or 'Thankless' is pretty shitty. It's bad enough to not give back, but it's worse to let it become a habit, and if anything receiving a gift is a good reminder over the lack done for them. 

Would you accept a house as a gift from your parents? Or would you feel like they'd own you if you accepted it?

They wouldn't give me said house short of them being on their deathbed, and it costs money to own a house, a lot of money. 

At the very least I wouldn't feel entitled to it emotionally. 

It's the same thing for the most part, you're giving back affection or favors because they had done so first. The only real difference here is that socializing didn't have a price tag. 

No I don't. I do it because I feel like it. I feel like it because they did it.

Posted Image

It's different. One case is true reciprocation, the other case is calculated. In order to reciprocate, you need to be unaware of your actions.

Pretty sure that's not in the word's definition, at all, it's just a response in turn to what was given. 

One can reciprocate a beating with revenge for example. 

When a gift is too imposing, I'll usually turn it down for being 'Too Much'. If they aren't getting something out of my having the thing then the uphill becomes too daunting for repayment. Meanwhile if someone bought me something cooperative, like a multiplayer game they also play or a ticket to an event or something, then I at least feel obligated to do these things with them so that we both get something out of it as my paying it back (even if it's something I might not enjoy doing the first few times). 

Is that because you don't like them and feel that they think your friendship with them is deeper than it really is?

No? What the fuck? 

I feel like accepting gifts solely, and further, as if one 'deserved' said gifts, is a bad mindset built on selfishness. Typically those I've seen deserve nice things are those who don't feel entitled to them, and they tend to have a nicer more genuine reaction when they're given something. 

The two fun parts of a gift are the excitement and surprise of The Unveiling and the practicality of it's Use, so a gift both people can use that the other would like can be nice, as long as it's not the 'secret gift for themselves' problem. 

Once you'd refuse reciprocity, through these means rather than being that insistently humble, I'd be under the impression that what you wanted out of those $10.00 was the power to lord it over someone. 
Have that go into the thousands or millions and you'll see that you effectively described how Med tries to bind Chapo. 

Lol . Does it work?

It can apply a lot of social leverage, even if it's a gross gesture. It's part of why rich people aren't seen as generous so much as powerful when they give things away. 

These days, people really need the money. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 3/18/2025 5:39:30 PM
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