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To understand someone outside of your own scoop and bias


Posts: 39

To understand someone outside of your own scoop and bias


For this topic I want to start off with an article about the perception of women that are by the opposition labeled “pink-pilled”, which is a liberal attempt to understand what they perceive to be women of the far right. However I welcome other relevant ideas and articles on the topic of understanding groups when coming from another perspective and bias.


Lois Shearing’s conclusion on women in the far right movement
What sparked Lois Shearing’s curiosity of trying to figure out far right women, without talking to them but instead to study them online through her lens of bias, was the bewilderment to see that there were women that protested in support of Tommy Robinson. With this in mind she spent time on several social media networks to gather data of women with the opposing view and their “radicalisation”. Louis states in her book that “when I started this project, I did so because I couldn’t find a satisfying answer to the question: why do women align themselves with movements that so clearly hate and harm them?” “Why do they advocate against their own rights and bodily autonomy? Why do they preach submission at the cost of their own wellbeing?”


Who is being labeled far right - The Riots in UK and the “far right movement”
The article starts off strong by stating that “Misogyny and male supremacy might lie at the heart of far-right ideology”. Which of course follows by the confusion of why women would be part of this movement, “but that does not mean women are absent from such movements”. This analysis of the far right is viewed through the event that they describe as “the race riots that exploded across the UK”. For those that missed Brexit, it was the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union with the biggest question that pushed for the exit was the immigration problem the United Kingdom was facing. The population has voted for drastic solutions and been dismissed continuously. The majority of the United Kingdom does not identify as far right, opposite to what the media is portraying, however they are united in majority that the immigration issues that the country has been facing needs to be addressed. After accumulating events caking on each other it reached a tipping point and riots erupted throughout the country. They are now being persecuted for disagreeing with the sitting government and not aligning their majority vote to what the sitting power wants. Not only are their free speech targeted but the trials they faced were expedited and they didn’t get fair trials. Other criminals were cleared out of jail to accommodate the new criminals. The people speaking up against the sitting power are now labeled far right, which also means that they are misogynistic and for male supremacy, and the opposition is clueless how women could be part of this movement. Author and journalist Lois Shearing has delved into the growing role that women play in far-right, neo-Nazi and white nationalist movements in her new book Pink-Pilled: Women and the Far Right. Where she tries to understand this.


Women with different views - “The radicalisation of women”
Lois Shearing concludes that the far right movements are wielding a range of “cunning tactics” to radicalise women online. She further argues that women that are encountering transphobic, anti-immigrant views and Islamophobic views are being radicalised into the far right. The author labels the process whereby women get drawn into the far right as  “pink-pilling” which has parallels with the radicalisation process their male counterparts undergo. It’s about brainwashing and radicalisation, irrational women undergoing this “pink-pill” process. It is interesting that the feminist movement, who coined that labeling something with gender-valued words are problematic, turns around and uses such terms for women on the opposing side. 


Women with different views - women who are anti-feminism
Lois Shearing is surprised to find that “there are a lot of women who feel really frustrated with society and they blame feminism for that”. She states that although there are different routes that take women to the “far right”, one of the routes is anti-feminism. 


Women with different views - DISGUSTING WHITE WOMEN
Here are some things Lois Shearing thinks about white women and why they don’t share her view. “But for many women in the far right, being white ultimately overrides their sense of womanhood” and explains that “women in extreme right-wing circles are predominantly white – adding that while far-right ideology and white supremacy teaches women that they are inferior to men, it positions them above those from different ethnic backgrounds”.


Lois thinks that women disagree with her because the “white nationalism and the far right offer them an opportunity to reclaim the power they feel is their birthright as white yet denied to them as women”, and continues to add that “they overlook the marginalisation they might be experiencing as women, or they are willing to almost let themselves be marginalised and objectified in these far-right communities if it means having power as white people”.


Ironically to me these arguments come off as rather racist and misogynistic. This problematic view stems ironically from gender studies and conclusions feminism has made. 


How to protect ourselves from opposing views - Free speech
Lois Shearing is also afraid of free speech and states following “Another issue is the proliferation of far-right material on social media platforms that do little to police it, under the guise of “free speech”. She is also alarmed that she can come across opinions that don't align with her own when she is interacting with social media online, her friends share the same concern and have also come across opposing views. She is horrified that it is hard to stay away from opposing views. It is extremely uncomfortable and I understand how she could think that it should be banned. But we should remember why we fought for free speech and how important it is. We should never let the sitting power take our rights to speak our mind. 

last edit on 12/19/2024 5:03:14 PM
Posts: 39
0 votes RE: To understand someone outside of your own scoop and bias

Proof of misogyny!
Horrified but not surprised to have spotted misogyny, she noted that men publicly abused and trolled online women who were also in the movement. Lois Shearing then spoke to a woman who was formerly in the far right, but now aligns her views with Lois Shearing, this previously wrong women said she had experienced harassment and sexual violence during her time in extremist circles. Which proves how the far right men are all misogynistic. Lois Shearing says some female far-right members believe women must be subservient and submissive to men and that their biology predisposes them to be so, but that the women allow for this because it means they can have power as white people.


Lois Shearing is alarmed and warns that there has been a rise in women being “the faces of far-right movements”. They are exploited by fellow members to “add this veneer of respectability” and make their extremism appear more approachable. “The far right can say ‘we don’t hate women – we have women’”


Women are in it for the money
Another argument heard from this aisle is that they are in it for the money. Although both sides offer similar revenue. To say that women with a different viewpoint only have that viewpoint because they’ve been bought is not only extremely ignorant but they miss the mark by far of the reasons as to why the opposing side has a different view than them. It is a desperate attempt to smear the other side instead of hearing what they are saying. Feminism used to fight for women, women have been dismissed for their views for centuries with various excuses of them not being intelligent enough, them being too emotional, hysterical, easily influenced, and now feminism adds that they do it because they’ve been bought, or because of their skin color etc. Feminism has turned on the very cause they fought. I guess not even feminism could stand against the patriarchy and join the machine.


“And there is the money” Lois Sheaning writes, “female far-right influencers are profiting from hatred” – adding that ‘“they have carved out a niche for themselves to make money by posting offensive content on platforms that reward engagement”. She goes so far as to say “they are just grifters”. She concludes that “the way that social media is set up, wherein stuff that is rage bait tends to go more viral or get shared and promoted more, means that they are rewarded for spreading this kind of bigotry and hatred.”


She further thinks that “these women, if they could make the same amount of money doing fitness influencing or makeup blogging, they would have, but those are very saturated markets and it’s harder to make money”.


To conclude the feminist take on far right women: Women don’t have their own opinions, they are only radicalised, in it for the money and exploited for it.

I think this is highly problematic coming from a movement claiming to lift up women, but only does so with those that submit themselves to their cause and align their opinions with them. When trying to understand women with opposing views they rely on harmful slander of women that they claim to fight.


Reference:
The article "Pink pilled"

last edit on 12/19/2024 5:10:57 PM
Posts: 22
0 votes RE: To understand someone outside of your own scoop and bias

I'm inclined to agree with Lois.

Being a female anti-feminist is like being a black anti-abolitionist.

Like who does that? Only people who are profiting so much from the status quo that they can't see how it causes others to struggle.

 

Take the pro life movement, for example. Kamala came close to winning a few states based on Roe v Wade getting flipped. Because men are the ones who profit from stealing women's bodily autonomy. Women have a hard enough time raising babies they want. Forcing them to keep them even when the pregnancy is not wanted or worse, not even viable, is just inhumane and disgusting, imo.

However, the issue does not affect me personally. I'm Canadian, and my bodily autonomy is guaranteed. And I'm post menopausal, anyway.

I could come up with all kinds of excuses to vote with the Patriarchy, though. It might even benefit me more in my twilight years to lie about my age and my fertility so I can be some creep's couch slut. But ew. Penises.

lol I'd rather starve.

I always make sure I vote with my sisters' interests in mind, whether they appreciate me or not. Unfortunately, most of them have been conditioned to hate on other women and don't give any actual fucks about any kindness I show them. So w.e. At least by voting against the pro lifers, I'm keeping a few thousand or a few hundred thousand psychos out of our world every year.

 

I'm also inclined to believe that anybody who is insulted by Lois' views is either a penis creature, or a wealthy couch slut  😋

last edit on 12/19/2024 8:49:03 PM
Posts: 3151
0 votes RE: To understand someone outside of your own scoop and bias

If you're a right wing man, date a right wing woman. She'll respect you, and you'll respect her.

If you're a feminist left wing woman, date a feminist left wing guy. To him I'd say, good luck, she'll deprive him of sex, just maybe she'll kill his babies, that depends if she changes her mind, emasculate him, and she'll be emotionally invested in what the right wing man is up to and expect him to support her feelings on that. 

^ Between these pairs, one set will suffer while the other will see better days. 

 

 There's a lot to be said about that article, but I wanted to respond to this.

How to protect ourselves from opposing views - Free speech
Lois Shearing is also afraid of free speech and states following “Another issue is the proliferation of far-right material on social media platforms that do little to police it, under the guise of “free speech”. She is also alarmed that she can come across opinions that don't align with her own when she is interacting with social media online, her friends share the same concern and have also come across opposing views. She is horrified that it is hard to stay away from opposing views. It is extremely uncomfortable and I understand how she could think that it should be banned. But we should remember why we fought for free speech and how important it is. We should never let the sitting power take our rights to speak our mind.

 It's funny how in the same paragraph, she can call for censorship of ideas she doesn't agree with, then insist how they should never let the sitting power take away their rights to speak their mind. 

The right has been censored for years, up until Elon bought Twitter, to when Zuckerberg decided it was time to stop censoring right wingers on Meta social media platforms. It's been found by Elon that Twitter has been doing this on behalf of the DNC, and Zuckerberg also confessed to doing it on behalf of the DNC.

Today I don't see any censorship of the left, or feminism, if anything we can clearly see how angry they are on social media. 

Posts: 3151
0 votes RE: To understand someone outside of your own scoop and bias
Zena said: 

I'm inclined to agree with Lois.

Being a female anti-feminist is like being a black anti-abolitionist.

Like who does that? Only people who are profiting so much from the status quo that they can't see how it causes others to struggle.

The western women who took part in the 4b feminist movement, shaving their heads and making themselves less appealing to the typical man. What's your thoughts on that ?

Personally I think it's self destructive and signals a form of mental disorder. Not to mention a guy wouldn't want to settle down with someone who'll self destruct as a form of punishment. 

 

Take the pro life movement, for example. Kamala came close to winning a few states based on Roe v Wade getting flipped. Because men are the ones who profit from stealing women's bodily autonomy.

Nah. 

I'm Canadian, and my bodily autonomy is guaranteed. And I'm post menopausal, anyway.

 

I'm also inclined to believe that anybody who is insulted by Lois' views is either a penis creature, or a wealthy couch slut  😋

 Remember that time I walked in on your naked ass rippling on Justin Trudeau's wii wii as you bounced up and down. How's your relationship with him now, you still with him or what ?

Posts: 59
0 votes RE: To understand someone outside of your own scoop and bias
Missy_ said: 


To conclude the feminist take on far right women: Women don’t have their own opinions, they are only radicalised, in it for the money and exploited for it.

I think this is highly problematic coming from a movement claiming to lift up women, but only does so with those that submit themselves to their cause and align their opinions with them. When trying to understand women with opposing views they rely on harmful slander of women that they claim to fight.

 

 Many people are seeing the hypocrisy of the Left. I am happy you've woke up. Inclusion and tolerance don't extend to others with different views.

I suspect there are many happy women in traditionally right leaning families. Roles are well defined.

Posts: 59
0 votes RE: To understand someone outside of your own scoop and bias
Zena said: 

 Take the pro life movement, for example. Kamala came close to winning a few states based on Roe v Wade getting flipped. Because men are the ones who profit from stealing women's bodily autonomy. Women have a hard enough time raising babies they want. Forcing them to keep them even when the pregnancy is not wanted or worse, not even viable, is just inhumane and disgusting, imo.

 Roe v Wade has nothing to do with abortion. It's about the Constitutional Republic that is the USA. Abortion laws are now pushed down to the State level where they belong. If you want an abortion move to California where the other baby killers are.

 

Posts: 39
0 votes RE: To understand someone outside of your own scoop and bias
Zena said: 

I'm inclined to agree with Lois.

Being a female anti-feminist is like being a black anti-abolitionist.

Like who does that? Only people who are profiting so much from the status quo that they can't see how it causes others to struggle.

 

This is part of my point with the title of understanding someone outside of your own scoop and bias. The reason why it isn't making sense is because it is based on a false assumption. The assumption made is that the opposition would be anti-feminists because they don't agree with the current agenda that feminism has taken today. This makes them anti-feminist in some sense (they indeed do not agree with the left narrative and agenda) but not in all (to not agree with the left narrative and agenda is not equal to being misogynistic, women hating or white supremist). To further assume that this would be due to profit is also a false narrative. Influensers on both aisle make profit. To believe in the false assumption leads to believe in a conclusion based on a false narrative. It brings you further away from understanding the opposition. You can disagree with the opposition, but you should at least understand what you are disagreeing with.

 

Zena said: 

Take the pro life movement, for example. Kamala came close to winning a few states based on Roe v Wade getting flipped. Because men are the ones who profit from stealing women's bodily autonomy. Women have a hard enough time raising babies they want. Forcing them to keep them even when the pregnancy is not wanted or worse, not even viable, is just inhumane and disgusting, imo.

However, the issue does not affect me personally. I'm Canadian, and my bodily autonomy is guaranteed. And I'm post menopausal, anyway.

 

I want to first state that I agree with you, it is inhumane and disgusting and frankly terrifying to imagine. A good portion of men and women are pro-life, and it is not due to men "profit from stealing women's bodily autonomy" but due to how they regard humanlife. I'm Swedish, I'm pro-choice. Over here it is a non-issue. In our culture we value human life and we understand that it is a human life that is being taken in an abortion, and treat it as such. However in America the cultue varies, there's people that treat it like contraception etc. I personally wouldn't want to live in a state where abortion is prohibited, because I would fear the reprecusion of being forced to keep a baby after being raped and the culture that might come from such decisions. But I would also not want to live in a state where humanlife are not regarded and where they kill babies that survived the abortion, postbirth-abortions. I also don't agree with willynilly late abortions of babies. I think the biggest issue however is where does the unwanted babies go. That is another discussion though. Above all my personal opinion in the topic that I recognize as extremely sensitive with a lot of factors to be considered and account for, it is not a black and white matter, however as I started this sentence, above all I believe in democracy. I believe that the majority should decide and the minority should be compromised with and accomodated to within the frames of what the majority wants. 

To tie this back to the topic, I want to conclude that again, there's false assumptions as to why  the opposition is pro-life. Why they recognize an embryo and a fetus as human life that should be protected. Why it counts as a double homicide when a pregnant women is killed. There is reason to value human life and protect it. If you push a pregnant woman down the stairs and she has a miscarriage, didn't her child die? Does she not moarn and grief it as such? To think that the opposition only has arguements of evil and to profit and exploit is following a false narrative and it's extremely harmful. Again, it is okay to disagree with the opposition, but you should know what you are disagreeing with. I disagree with pro-life but I recognize that some of their points are valid, and there is valid concern on both sides of the consequences of each decision.

 

 

I could come up with all kinds of excuses to vote with the Patriarchy, though. It might even benefit me more in my twilight years to lie about my age and my fertility so I can be some creep's couch slut. But ew. Penises.

lol I'd rather starve.

I always make sure I vote with my sisters' interests in mind, whether they appreciate me or not. Unfortunately, most of them have been conditioned to hate on other women and don't give any actual fucks about any kindness I show them. So w.e. At least by voting against the pro lifers, I'm keeping a few thousand or a few hundred thousand psychos out of our world every year.

 The culture you speak of with women being conditioned to hate on women, could that also be what is coloring this narrative when other women are being labeled as sold-outs, white supremists, anti-feminists and misogynistic for having a different opinion than the (false) narrative (based on false assumptions) allows? Could it be that if we would listen to one another and try to truly understand the other perspective that we better could compromise and find solutions to accomodate and prioritise the valid concerns that exist on both aisles.

 

Zena said: 

 

I'm also inclined to believe that anybody who is insulted by Lois' views is either a penis creature, or a wealthy couch slut  😋

 I think that is highly problematic and ignorant. I understand that it is an easier and more comfortable way to interact with the world if it is black and white, no nuances, and only one objective truth to what is right and wrong, a narrow path to follow. It is also a dangerous rhetoric to assign your opposition with labels based on false assumptions, creating a false narrative and ultimately make enemies out of ignorance. 

last edit on 12/20/2024 12:04:55 PM
Posts: 39
0 votes RE: To understand someone outside of your own scoop and bias

If you're a right wing man, date a right wing woman. She'll respect you, and you'll respect her.

If you're a feminist left wing woman, date a feminist left wing guy. To him I'd say, good luck, she'll deprive him of sex, just maybe she'll kill his babies, that depends if she changes her mind, emasculate him, and she'll be emotionally invested in what the right wing man is up to and expect him to support her feelings on that. 

^ Between these pairs, one set will suffer while the other will see better days. 

 

 I agree to a certain extent. You should absolutely date someone you are compatible with. I do however believe that there is successful and unsuccessful relationships on both aisles. I do however believe that the struggles each type of dynamic have will follow a pattern. For example the left leaning couple might have issues where the man feel emasculated and where conflicts could be driven in a toxic female narrative. However, on the right leaning side there might be issues of disrespect towards the female counterpart and not properly appreciate her coontribution as a home maker. An issue with respect and the powerblance is as toxic no matter where it leans towards. If the couple utilize healthy communication and respect both type of relationship can be prosperous. It is important to understand the oppsition, and not smear them as they smear us. Both sides has valid concerns about the power dynamic, and it should be addressed, not belittled or used as a cheap attack across the aisle.

 

 

 There's a lot to be said about that article, but I wanted to respond to this.

How to protect ourselves from opposing views - Free speech
Lois Shearing is also afraid of free speech and states following “Another issue is the proliferation of far-right material on social media platforms that do little to police it, under the guise of “free speech”. She is also alarmed that she can come across opinions that don't align with her own when she is interacting with social media online, her friends share the same concern and have also come across opposing views. She is horrified that it is hard to stay away from opposing views. It is extremely uncomfortable and I understand how she could think that it should be banned. But we should remember why we fought for free speech and how important it is. We should never let the sitting power take our rights to speak our mind.

 It's funny how in the same paragraph, she can call for censorship of ideas she doesn't agree with, then insist how they should never let the sitting power take away their rights to speak their mind. 

 

 My apologies she writes: Lois Shearing is also afraid of free speech and states following “Another issue is the proliferation of far-right material on social media platforms that do little to police it, under the guise of “free speech”. She is also alarmed that she can come across opinions that don't align with her own when she is interacting with social media online, her friends share the same concern and have also come across opposing views. She is horrified that it is hard to stay away from opposing views.

I write and conclude: It is extremely uncomfortable and I understand how she could think that it should be banned. But we should remember why we fought for free speech and how important it is. We should never let the sitting power take our rights to speak our mind.

I am terrified that she unironcially and unwavering wants censorship.

 

 

The right has been censored for years, up until Elon bought Twitter, to when Zuckerberg decided it was time to stop censoring right wingers on Meta social media platforms. It's been found by Elon that Twitter has been doing this on behalf of the DNC, and Zuckerberg also confessed to doing it on behalf of the DNC.

Today I don't see any censorship of the left, or feminism, if anything we can clearly see how angry they are on social media. 

 Agreed, and it is concerning that they find it so triggering to hear another point of view to the point that they want censorship and be shielded from opposing views. Which they already don't understand. It would be extremely harmful to never come across an opposing view and follow blindly the false narrative based on false assumptions.

 

Zena said: 

I'm inclined to agree with Lois.

Being a female anti-feminist is like being a black anti-abolitionist.

Like who does that? Only people who are profiting so much from the status quo that they can't see how it causes others to struggle.

The western women who took part in the 4b feminist movement, shaving their heads and making themselves less appealing to the typical man. What's your thoughts on that ?

Personally I think it's self destructive and signals a form of mental disorder. Not to mention a guy wouldn't want to settle down with someone who'll self destruct as a form of punishment. 

 I think it is a sign of the fear mongoring that follows the false narrative they are spinning. It shows a level of fear, anxiety, stress and desperation that very well might turn into a mental disorder. It is certainly self destructive and harmful. 

 

Take the pro life movement, for example. Kamala came close to winning a few states based on Roe v Wade getting flipped. Because men are the ones who profit from stealing women's bodily autonomy.

Nah. 

Because women were frightened of the consequences of men voting on the matter. A fear that is valid. It is not without risk bodily autonomy is handed over. However there is more than one life that needs to be considered in the debate, which several women recognize. The fear of the consequences of not being able to get medical treatment, to be part of a society were rape often goes unpunished, where when you give up one right more rights follow. That is valid. Some women might also have been afraid of what types of men would profit of this. But again, we need to understand the opposing side and not assign them with false narratives.

Posts: 39
0 votes RE: To understand someone outside of your own scoop and bias
kuhne said: 
Missy_ said: 


To conclude the feminist take on far right women: Women don’t have their own opinions, they are only radicalised, in it for the money and exploited for it.

I think this is highly problematic coming from a movement claiming to lift up women, but only does so with those that submit themselves to their cause and align their opinions with them. When trying to understand women with opposing views they rely on harmful slander of women that they claim to fight.

 

 Many people are seeing the hypocrisy of the Left. I am happy you've woke up. Inclusion and tolerance don't extend to others with different views.

I suspect there are many happy women in traditionally right leaning families. Roles are well defined.

 There is hypocrisy on both sides. We assign them a false narrative too. Which is why I think the topic of understanding something outside our scoop and bias is so interesting. 

I believe that a healthy home with well defined roles are happy. I believe this can be found on both aisles. You can have a healthy powerdynamic wether you share household duties or divide them. Communication, respect and understanding is key in all scenarios. I think it is important to recognize that.

 

kuhne said: 
Zena said: 

 Take the pro life movement, for example. Kamala came close to winning a few states based on Roe v Wade getting flipped. Because men are the ones who profit from stealing women's bodily autonomy. Women have a hard enough time raising babies they want. Forcing them to keep them even when the pregnancy is not wanted or worse, not even viable, is just inhumane and disgusting, imo.

 Roe v Wade has nothing to do with abortion. It's about the Constitutional Republic that is the USA. Abortion laws are now pushed down to the State level where they belong. If you want an abortion move to California where the other baby killers are.

 

 It has everything to do with abortion. Roe v Wade made a federal law protecting abortion rights. You are right about it being moved back to the states so that it can be voted on and the majority can make a decision on how they wish to live. I believe that this is a good thing as well. I think the majority should rule. In Sweden 98% are pro abortion rights. Statistics show that less than 1% of all abortions in Sweden are done after week 18, which here makes it a non-issue in my country. I think it is important that the culture value human life and that this is reflected in their decisions, if it is not I think there is a value in changing the laws to reflect the change that the majority want and that it is reflected in the law. 

But again I think it is important to understand the valid fears on both sides of the aisle to come to an understandment of what we're striving for.

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