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Consulting an ancient Chinese oracle (I Ching) about SC's decline


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This topic is inspired by a reply I did to the topic regarding the causes of SC's decline. I see many different ideas, but how about we consult something a bit more ancient and revered- the I Ching.

The I Ching, also known as the book of changes, is one of the oldest divination books of all time, and has been used both as consultations in difficult situations and as a philosophical guide. It impacted the development of both Taoism and Confucianism and has been consulted for various purposes for thousands of years.

To consult the I Ching, I cast 3 coins 6 times. Each coin toss will yield a binary one, represented by an unbroken line, or a binary 0, represented by a broken line. This forms a hexagram, a stack of 6 lines, some broken and unbroken. The broken/unbroken symbolize yin and yang elements at different positions, corresponding to different situations and concepts. There are 64 Hexagrams in the I Ching.

For each coin, I assign to heads a value of 3 and to tails a value of 2. I shake them in my hands and cast them, then I add up the total value of what the coins show.
If it is heads heads heads- then the line will be solid as in yang, but will also flip to yin to generate a second hexagram.
If it's heads heads tails, it is a solid line and remains that way.
If it is tails tails, heads, it is a broken line as in yin and remains that way.
If it is tails tails tails, it is a broken line, but will flip to yang to generate a second hexagram.
If all my tosses generate lines that remain the same, I need only consult the I Ching about one hexagram. If it produces lines that change, I consult the I Ching about the initial hexagram, then I examine what it has to say about the specific lines that changed. Then, I consult it about the second hexagram those changes would yield.

The transformation between the first hexagram to the second hexagram denotes a change in the situation, this is why the I Ching is called the books of changes.


Since you simply must have a question in mind when consulting the I Ching to use it, I will ask it this question:

"What could have contributed to SC's decline?"

So after casting my coins, it generates two hexagrams. First, the initial one:

Hexagram 34- Great Vigor

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The I Ching says:

"Congratulations! There is strength and vigor in this situation, like that of a ram that knocks down a fence to free himself from captivity. This points to a time when a strong force comes into its own and asserts its power.

When a leader comes into a position of power, his or her personal strength has usually already peaked. Though great stamina was required in climbing to the top of the mountain, once at the summit, the support of others is needed to maintain position. Therefore, a shift in attitude becomes necessary to persevere in what is right and just. Let your strength be tempered by wisdom. To maintain power, the strong leader learns to share it with others, for only then will his or her position be secure. A strong leader will not only be the possessor of power but a source of it.

If you find yourself in an influential position, it is important to act responsibly and react with care. Power must not be allowed to degenerate into raw force that rides roughshod over everything in its path. A strong sense of responsibility for the collective good is the key to the successful exercise of power. By following what we intuitively know to be for the greater good, we avoid reckless abuses, which in the end, only undermine the source of our strength. Arrogance contains the seeds of its own undoing."

Remember that when consulting the I Ching, it doesn't necessarily give exact answers, but rather an open ended wisdom that can be applied to a situation. Consider that for SC, the main leaders that come to mind are Good, Turncoat, and Luna. Take of it what you will.

Now, the I Ching is called the book of changes for a reason. Certain coin tosses result in certain lines on your initial hexagram to flip from yin to yang, or vice versa. This produces a second hexagram corresponding to a changing situation. In this case, the third and sixth lines flip. Before we examine that second hexagram, let's talk about the position of the third and sixth line, and what it means:

The I Ching says:

"Line 3:
The ordinary person uses force,
the noble one does nothing.
Persistence is dangerous.
A ram butts against the fence,
entangling his horns.

Trying to force things. This results in getting stuck or some kind of damage. It's better to step back and not do anything just now.

Line 6:
A ram butts against the fence.
It is unable to move back,
it is unable to go through.
This lacks a beneficial purpose.
Difficult and thus good fortune.

By trying to force things, one has gotten stuck. One is unable to move on or to go back. The difficulty forces one to take a different, more careful approach. This different approach helps other things later on to go better as well."

Again, take of this what you will. Has anybody's use of force entangled them, and contributed to the fall of SC?


Since those lines flip due to the coin toss, it yields this hexagram:

Hexagram 38- Diverging Interests

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The I Ching says:

"Some level of estrangement is indicated. For example, when brothers and sisters choose partners and marry, they often grow apart, since their allegiances prioritize new families. Though they will remain close enough to deal with problems and interests related to their original family, they are less likely to undertake great projects together. Simply put, when people grow apart—even for the most natural of reasons—their points of view, values, interests and schedules diverge.

Different natures and interests bring opposition into the world of human affairs. If opposition drifts into alienation and enmity, good results are few (if at all). But when opposition takes the form of healthy competition, or when it is recognized as part of the natural order of things, good fortune is still possible for the relationship.

When diverging interests make a situation seem stagnant or futile, remember that there are always creative possibilities inherent in polarities. One is reminded of the interplay of the opposites, yin and yang, which is fundamental to life itself. As the symbol of the Tao illustrates, the yin and the yang each have the seed of the other residing within them.

If opposition has its roots in issues of principle, you must hold on to your integrity and individuality. Let go of vulgar or self-absorbed people who do not share your values. With both people and companies, one measure of stature is the quality of one’s competition."

Once again, take of it what you will. I have consulted the I Ching, one of the oldest divination oracles in history, and through random chance of my coin toss this is what it had to say. You may call it foolish, likening it to a mere magic 8 ball, but if there's anything over a decade of SC should have shown, it's that the future is unpredictable and no amount of analytics or stats or logic or data could have discerned all the moving variables contributing to SC's downfall. Therefore, I believe consulting the I Ching is as valid as any.

The oracle has spoken!

My grandiose delusions are better than yours.
last edit on 10/3/2023 10:54:50 AM
Posts: 33415
0 votes RE: Consulting an ancient Chinese oracle (I Ching) about SC's decline

I'm not sure I understand what to take away from these results. How is it connected rather than general advice? 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 4519
0 votes RE: Consulting an ancient Chinese oracle (I Ching) about SC's decline

Your response seems purposely obtuse.

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
Posts: 33415
0 votes RE: Consulting an ancient Chinese oracle (I Ching) about SC's decline

Your response seems purposely obtuse.

Can you answer the question though? 🤨

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 4519
0 votes RE: Consulting an ancient Chinese oracle (I Ching) about SC's decline

Your response seems purposely obtuse.

Can you answer the question though? 🤨

Sounds evasive.  It's connected on the same basis that the other "reasons" are connected, at least based on the OP's intent behind their post.  An arbitrary explanation on the basis of coin flips amounting to the same efficacy as more "reasoned" responses.

Aside from that, and not taking the quality of this much the same as horoscopes, the descriptions kind of lend to the general sentiments already put forth.  The growth initially based on commonality of purpose, the decline on differences and divergence of interests and accumulation of life.

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
Posts: 33415
0 votes RE: Consulting an ancient Chinese oracle (I Ching) about SC's decline

Your response seems purposely obtuse.

Can you answer the question though? 🤨

Sounds evasive.  It's connected on the same basis that the other "reasons" are connected, at least based on the OP's intent behind their post.  An arbitrary explanation on the basis of coin flips amounting to the same efficacy as more "reasoned" responses.

Aside from that, and not taking the quality of this much the same as horoscopes, the descriptions kind of lend to the general sentiments already put forth.  The growth initially based on commonality of purpose, the decline on differences and divergence of interests and accumulation of life.

But does this explain SC's decline, or just some tendencies of people? 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
Posts: 4519
0 votes RE: Consulting an ancient Chinese oracle (I Ching) about SC's decline

Can you answer the question though? 🤨

Sounds evasive.  It's connected on the same basis that the other "reasons" are connected, at least based on the OP's intent behind their post.  An arbitrary explanation on the basis of coin flips amounting to the same efficacy as more "reasoned" responses.

Aside from that, and not taking the quality of this much the same as horoscopes, the descriptions kind of lend to the general sentiments already put forth.  The growth initially based on commonality of purpose, the decline on differences and divergence of interests and accumulation of life.

But does this explain SC's decline, or just some tendencies of people? 

Ultimately, psychology/behavior is probably more a reality of the decline -- so, the tendencies of people -- than what the I Ching has to say about it.  It may just be a coincidental form of parallelism, like people take horoscopes.  But that's not really the question or how it was posed, contextually.

Is it related?  As the OP's intent seems to be: it's related in that it's as nonsensical or non-answering as the others in offering.

Is it general advice?  Just as horoscopes and such tend to be.

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
last edit on 10/7/2023 5:45:03 AM
Posts: 33415
0 votes RE: Consulting an ancient Chinese oracle (I Ching) about SC's decline

It's so general, to the point that it ignores the subtler plight. 

I'd love to see if he actually holds weight on this, or is being sarcastic. If the latter it'd explain why it doesn't really get to the meat of the point, as the points made don't fully apply to this circumstance beyond talking about how it already went, rather than the implications over the text for what to do next. 

Basically, the advice it's giving is related to the site's decline, rather than how to solve it. Continuing to follow that path will simply perpetuate how things already are. 

Ę̵̚x̸͎̾i̴͚̽s̵̻͐t̷͐ͅe̷̯͠n̴̤̚t̵̻̅i̵͉̿a̴̮͊l̵͍̂ ̴̹̕D̵̤̀e̸͓͂t̵̢͂e̴͕̓c̸̗̄t̴̗̿ï̶̪v̷̲̍é̵͔
last edit on 10/7/2023 12:19:39 PM
Posts: 2278
0 votes RE: Consulting an ancient Chinese oracle (I Ching) about SC's decline

It's so general, to the point that it ignores the subtler plight. 

I'd love to see if he actually holds weight on this, or is being sarcastic. If the latter it'd explain why it doesn't really get to the meat of the point, as the points made don't fully apply to this circumstance beyond talking about how it already went, rather than the implications over the text for what to do next. 

Basically, the advice it's giving is related to the site's decline, rather than how to solve it. Continuing to follow that path will simply perpetuate how things already are. 

 Well I like to think of it like this-

Even if the I Ching isn't some magic genie fortune teller, and who knows if things like that actually do work in that kind of way... It definitely helps to provoke thought about the issue at hand, which could lead to just the sort of thinking that is needed to solve the problem. If it gives you something way out of left field, then you have to think on left field terms which could have unexpectedly effective results.

My grandiose delusions are better than yours.
Posts: 2278
0 votes RE: Consulting an ancient Chinese oracle (I Ching) about SC's decline

So, you'd like to know it it would say about how to fix the problem, rather than what contributed to it? Ok, let's do that.

So I'll ask it:

"What can be done about SC's decline?"

Let's see what we get.

This time, there were no changing lines. Meaning this Hexagram applies chiefly to the present:

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_____

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_____

 

Hexagram 38: Estrangement

 

I Ching said:
Fire distances itself from its nemesis, the Lake:
No matter how large or diverse the group, the Superior Person remains uniquely himself.

Small accomplishments are possible.

 Explanation:

 

You are working at cross-purposes with another.
The distance between you is very wide.
The gap can be closed, however, with no compromise of your integrity.
You are not adversaries in this case -- just two persons addressing individual needs.
Ask yourself: are these needs mutually exclusive?
Is there common ground here?
Must there be one winner and one loser?
Could you become partners in seeking a solution that would allow for two winners?
My grandiose delusions are better than yours.
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