LiYang said:I know very little about the Ukrainian history, just what I've read recently.
Do you think Putin is returning original Russian lands to Russia?
all of Ukraine is gifts from Russian tsars, empresses and bloody communists.
https://s14.stc.yc.kpcdn.net/share/i/4/1294892/wr-750.webp
Erm... I did a thought experiment in a few places, comparing Ukraine to Canada, and asked if anybody would give any actual fucks if Emanuel Macron were to invade us to help French separatists. The answer was usually no, it would not become the issue that the world has made of the Russo-Ukrainian conflict.
Also, people usually ask "who owned it first?"
So here, the First Nations owned the land, we did some negotiating. everybody had a say (there was a referendum) and we're good with the way things worked out.
The situation in Ukraine is much more complicated bc Russians are extremely pig headed and territorial. Their history is quite brutal, so I guess that's understandable. They make a lot of enemies out of people who were originally not hostile, tho. They've also made ridiculous messes out of most of their regime changes, going all the way back to the deaths of numerous tsars with hereditary successors. Such strange obsessions these ppl have with hanging people from bridges...
When asked the same question about Ukraine (who owned it first?) I had a bitch of a time finding the first settlers. I suspected they were not Russian tzars bc Moscow was not built until the 13thc, and Kyiv is way older than that.
What we now call Ukraine was loosely populated by wave after wave of nomadic invaders from all over Europe. Vikings, Mongols, etc.
Correct me if I'm misinterpreting this, but it appears that the Cossacks were the first group to have a distinct culture, who called this particular piece of land home.
The main point of historical debate about "ownership" is with their 14thc request to become part of the Russian Empire under the first of the Romanovs. The arrangement seemed to work reasonably well for about 2 centuries, and the Kyivan(?) people had protection from invading hordes.
This is why Ruzzia (Pooptin) thinks Ukraine belongs to them.
But that arrangement was no longer valid once the Russians started treating them like vermin, imo. The Soviets were even worse.
I see it like an abusive marriage. Yeah sure, it was a partnership at one time, and everybody was happy.
But the abuse became intolerable and Ukraine wanted independence (a divorce :P)
I guess you could compare that handful of rrlly old and deluded people in the Donbas who want to tryta relive their Soviet glory days to punch drunk autistic children with Stockholm Syndrome, who want to go and live with their father.
I'm still with the Ukrainians.
Crimea originally belonged to the Turks. England and France won it in the 1850s.
Stalin took it in 1944.
When the Soviet Union broke up, Ukrainians were granted independence in a legally and globally recognized agreement.
This included Crimea.
So yeah. What the Ruzzians are doing is theft and illegal invasion.
It would not be horiffically wrong for the Ukrainians to cede part of the Donbas, if that's what the citizens in that region really want.
But nothing else.
The Ruzzians no longer have any rights to any other part of Ukraine.
Erm... I did a thought experiment in a few places, comparing Ukraine to Canada, and asked if anybody would give any actual fucks if Emanuel Macron were to invade us to help French separatists. The answer was usually no, it would not become the issue that the world has made of the Russo-Ukrainian conflict.
Also, people usually ask "who owned it first?"
So here, the First Nations owned the land, we did some negotiating. everybody had a say (there was a referendum) and we're good with the way things worked out.
The situation in Ukraine is much more complicated bc Russians are extremely pig headed and territorial. Their history is quite brutal, so I guess that's understandable. They make a lot of enemies out of people who were originally not hostile, tho. They've also made ridiculous messes out of most of their regime changes, going all the way back to the deaths of numerous tsars with hereditary successors. Such strange obsessions these ppl have with hanging people from bridges...
When asked the same question about Ukraine (who owned it first?) I had a bitch of a time finding the first settlers. I suspected they were not Russian tzars bc Moscow was not built until the 13thc, and Kyiv is way older than that.
What we now call Ukraine was loosely populated by wave after wave of nomadic invaders from all over Europe. Vikings, Mongols, etc.
Correct me if I'm misinterpreting this, but it appears that the Cossacks were the first group to have a distinct culture, who called this particular piece of land home.
The main point of historical debate about "ownership" is with their 14thc request to become part of the Russian Empire under the first of the Romanovs. The arrangement seemed to work reasonably well for about 2 centuries, and the Kyivan(?) people had protection from invading hordes.
This is why Ruzzia (Pooptin) thinks Ukraine belongs to them.
But that arrangement was no longer valid once the Russians started treating them like vermin, imo. The Soviets were even worse.
I see it like an abusive marriage. Yeah sure, it was a partnership at one time, and everybody was happy.
But the abuse became intolerable and Ukraine wanted independence (a divorce :P)
I guess you could compare that handful of rrlly old and deluded people in the Donbas who want to tryta relive their Soviet glory days to punch drunk autistic children with Stockholm Syndrome, who want to go and live with their father.
I'm still with the Ukrainians.
Crimea originally belonged to the Turks. England and France won it in the 1850s.
Stalin took it in 1944.
When the Soviet Union broke up, Ukrainians were granted independence in a legally and globally recognized agreement.
This included Crimea.
So yeah. What the Ruzzians are doing is theft and illegal invasion.
It would not be horiffically wrong for the Ukrainians to cede part of the Donbas, if that's what the citizens in that region really want.
But nothing else.
The Ruzzians no longer have any rights to any other part of Ukraine.
Yeah, if the French Canadians were getting shelled and killed in Canada for years by the Canadian Government
and the French people reached out to Macron for help.
and the issued was raised at the UN over a decade and nothing came of it.
Yeah, La liberté pour tous! qu'ils aient l'indépendance!
That was my point, tho.
It's not the Ukrainian gvt doing the shelling.
It was the Mongols and then some other nomadic invaders and then the Huns and then... the Poles, I think.
Then the Russians, then the Soviets, then the Nazis and then the Soviets again.
Then the Wagner mercenaries and now Pooptin's orcs.
They're like the idiot school bully who beats on some little kid and then cries to the cops when the kid finally hits back.
I watched some footage from 2014. Ukrainians rolled into Donbas in tanks and got pelted by fruit chucked by Babushki.
They stepped down and left their tanks there.
I mean, srsly. If they were that bad, they would have shot the old ladies, no?
It's Pooptin and his orcs and his mercenaries who are the agressors.
That propaganda you're hearing is a load of shit.
And no. The French invaders are not allowed to call Mohawk land their independent country.
Even Daddy Justin's dad told them to stfu.
If they want to be more French, they can fuck off back to France.
Daddy Justin wants to put many needles in your arm.
lol no.
COVID is about over, here.
The mutations are making it milder and milder.
Daddy Justin has had it twice since he got vaxx'd lol
He's over it and as healthy as he ever was.
Nobody's telling me to get vaxx'd anymore.
He never got the vaccine, that's for plebs. lol the ones he needs to control.
I watched some footage from 2014. Ukrainians rolled into Donbas in tanks and got pelted by fruit chucked by Babushki.
They stepped down and left their tanks there.
I mean, srsly. If they were that bad, they would have shot the old ladies, no?
yes, Xena. you're right, but you didn't see all the videos about 2014. the first wave of the Ukrainian military really refused to storm Donetsk and Luhansk, many of the military were ethnic Russians, some even went over to the side of the rebels, but then the Ukrainian Nazis created volunteer battalions and, with the support of politicians, began hostilities in the Donbass. then the Ukrainian army was gradually involved in the conflict. many babushki died during mortar and artillery shelling of Donetsk, Lugansk and surrounding villages. And not only old ladies. in Donetsk there is an alley of angels. this is an alley of memory of murdered children in the Donbass. as you understand, this angered not only the Russian citizens of Ukraine in the Donbass, but also all Russians in Russia.
According to an investigation by German journalists, fire on protesters against pro-Russian President Yanukovych was fired from a building controlled by Euromaidan supporters. snipers fired at the trees in the square. apparently in order to correct the sights of rifles. German journalists inserted plastic straws into these bullet holes and applied laser pointers to these holes. laser beams pointed to the building occupied by Euromaidan supporters. the new Ukrainian authorities did not conduct any investigation. they just blamed it on the Ukrainian cops guarding the government buildings, and then they cut down those trees in Kyiv.
Did you see what happened on May 2, 2014 in Odessa? this was a real tragedy and it has not been investigated so far. the perpetrators are not punished. can you imagine that you and your associates would drive your political opponents into a building, set it on fire and finish off with sticks people who jumped out of windows? ukrainian euromaidanoids did it. the case of snipers on Euromaidan has not been investigated either.
they say it was all a revolution of dignity, but in fact it was just a bloody and illegal seizure of power, which is what pleased the civil conflict in Ukraine, which Putin took advantage of.
