Sociopath Community

I'm not like this perfect saintly example of Jesus's love yet, but there are some obvious positive noticeable changes going on in me that are very supernatural

don't just keep ignoring the truth before your own eyes, because one day it will be too late

Isaiah 55:6

6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Isaiah 26:4

4 Trust ye in the Lord for ever: for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength:

Why Christianity rather than other faiths though? It's not like it's the only one to found (supposedly) peaceful principles. 

I suspect that if everyone followed The Bible that we'd still have a lot of problems over schisms in their beliefs, over interpretations of the same texts being taken differently and over if practices should reflect modern ideals or rebuke them. There's more than one way to interpret The Bible's message, oftentimes people I speak with over it don't even believe a lot of the same things beyond using the same source for quotes. 

Turncoat said: 

Why Christianity rather than other faiths though? It's not like it's the only one to found (supposedly) peaceful principles. 

I suspect that if everyone followed The Bible that we'd still have a lot of problems over schisms in their beliefs, over interpretations of the same texts being taken differently and over if practices should reflect modern ideals or rebuke them. There's more than one way to interpret The Bible's message, oftentimes people I speak with over it don't even believe a lot of the same things beyond using the same source for quotes. 

Jesus does not overcomplicate, so neither should you or anyone else. the new covenant God made with us is not law-based, but instead love based and striving to stop sinning based, although none of us are perfect and need Jesus's consistent forgiveness and remission and cleansing power

Matthew 22:35-40

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

JesusistheKing said: 

Turncoat said: 

Why Christianity rather than other faiths though? It's not like it's the only one to found (supposedly) peaceful principles. 

I suspect that if everyone followed The Bible that we'd still have a lot of problems over schisms in their beliefs, over interpretations of the same texts being taken differently and over if practices should reflect modern ideals or rebuke them. There's more than one way to interpret The Bible's message, oftentimes people I speak with over it don't even believe a lot of the same things beyond using the same source for quotes.

Jesus does not overcomplicate, so neither should you or anyone else.

Ehhh I don't know about that, his principles for ideas such as 'turn the other cheek' isn't as simple as it sounds, the guy was doing complex miracles which could be argued to be magic tricks way ahead of his time, saw pieces of the future which could be argued to be cold reading before it was a normal thing to do, practiced peace during a period of human desperation as a poorer person, it wasn't an easy path. 

There's also the complication over if Jesus is or isn't God, considering that many who follow the Christian path worship Jesus moreso if not equally to God, even justifying that he was necessary for the revisions to The Bible in the first place. 

And God spoke all these words, saying,

"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

"You shall have no other gods before me.

"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

"You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

- Exodus 20:1-6

These small choices for how to interpret the texts would inevitably divide Christian theologists apart, as that's already happening even now. 

the new covenant God made with us is not law-based, but instead love based and striving to stop sinning based, although none of us are perfect and need Jesus's consistent forgiveness and remission and cleansing power

Have you really looked over the nature of sin? It's why some do practices like Communion to make mad cash. 

It's typically easier to sin and ask for forgiveness than to not sin at all. 

Turncoat said: 

the new covenant God made with us is not law-based, but instead love based and striving to stop sinning based, although none of us are perfect and need Jesus's consistent forgiveness and remission and cleansing power

Have you really looked over the nature of sin? It's why some do practices like Communion to make mad cash. 

It's typically easier to sin and ask for forgiveness than to not sin at all. 

 Some framing required here.  Emily isn't saying that one isn't sinning, but relying on divine forgiveness.  You sound like it's ok to sin, 'cause hey...you'll just get forgiven.  The old adage "it's easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission".  Watch how you interpret and say things in response, TC.  You are constantly doing this.  Blind leading the blind.

However, neither of these really clarifies the fact we're dealing with human nature with what religion is trying to do (but gets maligned) which is appealing to our higher nature.  The whole idea of forgiveness attached to Jesus on the Cross and his sacrifice creates a logistical inconsistency.  How often do we ask?  Didn't he cover our sins always, so why do we need to ask at all?  That kind of thing.  The thing is, the idea was an invention more of the Gospel writers and Disciples, especially Paul.  The prevailing Jewish and other dogma involved sacrifice and Atonement.  In order to appeal to their congregations and draw in more, this was incorporated.  The same way Purgatory and such was integrated down the line in Catholicism.

The issue of sin is absolved in the observance of our divine imperatives in the Golden Rule; not only action but intent.  Things can get sticky in specifics and anyone can get lost in the forest with all those trees, but just get over the pretentious bullshit fighting over words and use your damn common sense.

Allow me to throw around more Urantia Book stuff:

89:10.2 (984.5) Sin must be redefined as deliberate disloyalty to Deity. There are degrees of disloyalty: the partial loyalty of indecision; the divided loyalty of confliction; the dying loyalty of indifference; and the death of loyalty exhibited in devotion to godless ideals.

89:10.3 (984.6) The sense or feeling of guilt is the consciousness of the violation of the mores; it is not necessarily sin. There is no real sin in the absence of conscious disloyalty to Deity.

89:10.4 (984.7) The possibility of the recognition of the sense of guilt is a badge of transcendent distinction for mankind. It does not mark man as mean but rather sets him apart as a creature of potential greatness and ever-ascending glory. Such a sense of unworthiness is the initial stimulus that should lead quickly and surely to those faith conquests which translate the mortal mind to the superb levels of moral nobility, cosmic insight, and spiritual living; thus are all the meanings of human existence changed from the temporal to the eternal, and all values are elevated from the human to the divine.

89:10.5 (984.8) The confession of sin is a manful repudiation of disloyalty, but it in no wise mitigates the time-space consequences of such disloyalty. But confession—sincere recognition of the nature of sin—is essential to religious growth and spiritual progress.

89:10.6 (985.1) The forgiveness of sin by Deity is the renewal of loyalty relations following a period of the human consciousness of the lapse of such relations as the consequence of conscious rebellion. The forgiveness does not have to be sought, only received as the consciousness of re-establishment of loyalty relations between the creature and the Creator. And all the loyal sons of God are happy, service-loving, and ever-progressive in the Paradise ascent.

Buttered Toast said: 

Turncoat said: 

the new covenant God made with us is not law-based, but instead love based and striving to stop sinning based, although none of us are perfect and need Jesus's consistent forgiveness and remission and cleansing power

Have you really looked over the nature of sin? It's why some do practices like Communion to make mad cash. 

It's typically easier to sin and ask for forgiveness than to not sin at all. 

Some framing required here.  Emily isn't saying that one isn't sinning, but relying on divine forgiveness.  You sound like it's ok to sin, 'cause hey...you'll just get forgiven.  The old adage "it's easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission".  Watch how you interpret and say things in response, TC.  You are constantly doing this.  Blind leading the blind.

It's also fairly accurate, as it's not like they could ask God to give them permission to behave sinfully in advance, just to cleanse themselves of it's guilt if they really feel bad about it. While they go on to talk over how God can read them for their intentions and 'heart' and junk it still serves to only forgive them after the transgression. 

My point to Turquie that you seem to have missed though is moreover her idea that if the entire world followed The Bible that everything would just get better, and within that idea the misguided belief that people could just stop sinning to make everything perfect as if that were easy to do. The fact that the structure has room to seek forgiveness inherently shows the difficulty of avoiding sin, as if it were truly so easy there wouldn't need to be a forgiveness structure in the first place, and if it were instituted for everyone on Earth to be Christian we wouldn't suddenly get better from what's asked of us from the texts being fairly unnatural beyond general community guidelines (don't steal, don't murder, etc). 

Who are you to say you aren't the blind one though? All we have when it comes to The Bible is the room for it to be interpreted, rather than there just being one message to find from it. This isn't even the first time you've tried to invalidate my room to reference The Bible as if you have some sort of special claim to the material, or further as if only people who have positive things to say about it do. 

However, neither of these really clarifies the fact we're dealing with human nature with what religion is trying to do (but gets maligned) which is appealing to our higher nature.  The whole idea of forgiveness attached to Jesus on the Cross and his sacrifice creates a logistical inconsistency.  How often do we ask?  Didn't he cover our sins always, so why do we need to ask at all?

I thought his sacrifice only rid us of our original sin, the one all people were born with or whatever. 

 That kind of thing.  The thing is, the idea was an invention more of the Gospel writers and Disciples, especially Paul.  The prevailing Jewish and other dogma involved sacrifice and Atonement.  In order to appeal to their congregations and draw in more, this was incorporated. The same way Purgatory and such was integrated down the line in Catholicism.

Didn't the Pope rid of Purgatory in 2017 or something? 

The issue of sin is absolved in the observance of our divine imperatives in the Golden Rule; not only action but intent.  Things can get sticky in specifics and anyone can get lost in the forest with all those trees, but just get over the pretentious bullshit fighting over words and use your damn common sense.

The problem I see with the model is that someone can intend with all their heart to get better but still find themselves falling into heuristics that are so repetitive that they might as well have been lying for all intents and purposes over their aim to get better. 

If someone can truly feel bad every time they sin, they can just keep asking for forgiveness from being that shortsightedly naive and earnest. It's as if it only punishes the wisdom of expectation and premeditation (Ecclesiastes), favoring character traits that don't theme towards the bigger picture similar to that of a Scientologist's approach to Emotional Tone. 

He may have gotten rid of Purgatory; it's more about the historical precedence.

And about the invalidation: again, you're framing what's happening wrong.  You're interpreting what someone is saying about a thing it's not about, then making an argument using another interpretation that doesn't actually hold relevance.

Buttered Toast said: 

And about the invalidation: again, you're framing what's happening wrong.  You're interpreting what someone is saying about a thing it's not about, then making an argument using another interpretation that doesn't actually hold relevance.

I think this time you may be the one who's mistaken.