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"Behave"


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So, I'm currently reading through Robert Sapolsky's book "Behave" and want to make a speculation:

#lastword
Describing the relationships between the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (dlPFC), the ventromedial prefrontal cortex (vmPFC) and amygdala (and, perhaps, other parts of the limbic system), he also discusses the effect on stress/anxiety/anger/etc. (amygdala) to decision-making.

#lastword
There are two "streams" of activity occurring (as the book describes): (a) one identifies X as very important (prioritizes), (b) the other gives the response to do or not do X. While one might consider the two according to some algorithmic "IF THEN" sort of process, along a single track or circuit. However, these two streams are actually parallel or separate, though related. The important factor is that since they are actually two streams, they can dissociate. One can get the (a) stream without the help of the (b) stream's guidance.

#lastword
Without getting in the weeds of the brain's efforts to properly automate responses and save time in decision-making when its most crucial ("fight or flight", etc.), I suspect Tourette's is a disfunction in this area. It might illustrate why impulses for inappropriate behavior go unregulated, despite the efforts of higher-order executive function intervention.

#lastword
Some dysregulation involving dlPFC and vmPFC might be at the heart of the matter. The dlPFC is that rational, top-down perspective to decisions, while the vmPFC is an "honorary member of the limbic system" and is guided by emotion. Stress has proven as a culprit to bad decision-making. As one learns the do's and don'ts of social norms, it is usually learned emotionally (considering how the last part of the brain to fully develop is the dlPFC, so the vmPFC is surely the mechanism first) first. Undesirable emotion or stress is felt under the pressures of socializing development according to inappropriate behavior. So, as stress in the future is able to short circuit rational response, a dissociated sort of response occurs spontaneously, but it's almost like witnessing yourself possessed of some demon designed to thwart your intentions.

#lastword
Does this make any sense?

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
last edit on 3/21/2021 8:33:39 PM
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It does make sense in a way. PFC is more for planning, though. So PFC damage might manifest as someone not able to put a Lego model together, because they aren't able to project a sequence of steps into the future. Or they otherwise lose track. So they just start putting things together, and it might appear to be impulsive. But it's really just lack of long-term thinking capcity.

I was curious since you brought this up, so I found this info: 

https://source.wustl.edu/2016/10/brain-scans-children-tourettes-offer-clues-disorder/ said:
Differences noted in brain regions involving sensation, sensory processing.

Using MRIs, researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis have identified areas in the brains of children with Tourette’s syndrome that appear markedly different from the same areas in the brains of children who don’t have the neuropsychiatric disorder.

The findings are available online Oct. 25 in the journal Molecular Psychiatry.

Tourette’s syndrome is defined by tics — involuntary, repetitive movements and vocalizations. Scientists estimate that the condition affects roughly one to 10 kids out of every 1,000 children.

“In this study, we found changes primarily in brain regions connected to sensation and sensory processing,”said co-principal investigator Kevin J. Black, MD, a professor of psychiatry.

Differences in those brain regions make sense, Black said, because many people with Tourette’s explain that their tics occur mainly as a response to unusual sensations. The feeling that a part of the body doesn’t seem right, for example, prompts an involuntary sigh, vocalization, cough or twitch.

“Just as you or I might cough or sneeze due to a cold, a person with Tourette’s frequently will have a feeling that something is wrong, and the tic makes it feel better,” Black said. “A young man who frequently clears his throat may report that doing so is a reaction to a tickle or some other unusual sensation in his throat. Or a young woman will move her shoulder when it feels strange, and the movement, which is a tic, will make the shoulder feel better.”

In the largest study of its kind, the researchers conducted MRI scans at four U.S. sites to study the brains of 103 children with Tourette’s and compared them with scans of another 103 kids of the same age and sex but without the disorder. The scans of the children with Tourette’s revealed significantly more gray matter in the thalamus, the hypothalamus and the midbrain than in those without the disorder.

The gray matter is where the brain processes information. It’s made up mainly of cells such as neurons, glial cells and dendrites, as well as axons that extend from neurons to carry signals.
In kids with Tourette’s, the researchers also found less white matter around the orbital prefrontal cortex, just above the eyes, and in the medial prefrontal cortex, also near the front, than in kids without the condition.

I don't find this to be a satisfactory explanation either, though. If I think about it, this means that these people hear something, but their perception is skewed neurologically, so they automatically react to it in an offensive or idiosyncratic way? Could be the case as in what happens with capgras syndrome, but the impulsive aspect of it is harder to explain. You may be onto something (especially with vMPF, that's the one related to addiction/impulsivity).

last edit on 3/21/2021 8:50:18 PM
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No but I'm not the most intelligent person on the planet.

Posts: 4697
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One rather conspicuous omission to this speculation is motor tics and such.  It may be a part of some other system involving the PFC and other areas.  Some sort of short-circuit of a similarly conditioned "anti-behavior", making inappropriate gestures or harm, etc.

Tourette's sufferers have described the doing of their tics and behavior as a release.  The not doing of it can lead to anxiety which also exacerbates the likelihood of behavior.  Once fulfilled, there's a release, which I wonder if that's amygdala-related, thus related to this other stuff.

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
Posts: 4697
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And further with Tourette's and associations and triggers:

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
Posts: 403
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Im a little interested. What does the orbital prefrontal cortex and medial prefrontal cortex do?

Posts: 403
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And further with Tourette's and associations and triggers:

Imagine she's sucking you off and suddenly gets the urge to bite uncontrollably.

Posts: 4653
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I'm surprised how scant the brain research is on the topic.

I remember watching the streamer Sweet Anita for a bit (her tics are not sweet). She described the sensation of a tic as something where it feels like a buildup happening, something you can feel. Then a release, like what you said.

People with Tourette's will often say how they are not meaning what they are saying 99% of the time. It's almost like some subconscious dark side that comes out for some of those people. What that dark side is, I have no idea. Apparently it's something we're all built with, because when the restraints come down it just comes out.

Posts: 403
0 votes RE: "Behave"

I'm surprised how scant the brain research is on the topic.

I remember watching the streamer Sweet Anita for a bit (her tics are not sweet). She described the sensation of a tic as something where it feels like a buildup happening, something you can feel. Then a release, like what you said.

People with Tourette's will often say how they are not meaning what they are saying 99% of the time. It's almost like some subconscious dark side that comes out for some of those people. What that dark side is, I have no idea. Apparently it's something we're all built with, because when the restraints come down it just comes out.

Dark side.

Posts: 4697
0 votes RE: "Behave"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorsolateral_prefrontal_cortex

 

The DLPFC is also the end point for the dorsal pathway (stream),[8] which is concerned with how to interact with stimuli.

An important function of the DLPFC is the executive functions, such as working memory, cognitive flexibility,[9] planning, inhibition, and abstract reasoning.[10] However, the DLPFC is not exclusively responsible for the executive functions. All complex mental activity requires the additional cortical and subcortical circuits with which the DLPFC is connected.[11] The DLPFC is also the highest cortical area that is involved in motor planning, organization and regulation.[11]

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventromedial_prefrontal_cortex

 

The ventromedial prefrontal cortex (vmPFC) is a part of the prefrontal cortex in the mammalian brain. The ventral medial prefrontal is located in the frontal lobe at the bottom of the cerebral hemispheres and is implicated in the processing of risk and fear, as it is critical in the regulation of amygdala activity in humans.[2] It also plays a role in the inhibition of emotional responses, and in the process of decision making and self control. It is also involved in the cognitive evaluation of morality.

 

The TL;DR of it is (roughly) dlPFC = cognitive decision processing and rational executive function, vmPFC = emotional processing and added "weight" to decision making, the "gut feeling" you can get.  They are a team for decision making and executive functioning, with different streams of stimuli and processing which are capable of conflict, one overriding the other, which stress and trauma and other pressures can malign.

Thrall to the Wire of Self-Excited Circuit.
last edit on 3/22/2021 1:15:29 AM
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