Sociopath Community

It's flawed in that more intelligent creatures, human and non human, often know when a researcher does not have the participant's best interests in mind.

BF Skinner adored his ping pong pigeons. It was all over the guy's face, and the birds' body language when they performed for him. That's why his experiments were successful.

But I've read about all kinds of failed conditioning experiments where animals and people refused to co operate bc they got bored and tired of being strung along, or knew they were better than the psych's transparent attempts at manipulation.

Tryp and TC are fine examples of shrinks failing bc there's too much intelligence to go with their patient's crazy lol

A small percentage of disgruntled operant conditioning subjects will actually get angry and violent. eg: Alek Minassian.

Xena said:

Tryp and TC are fine examples of shrinks failing bc there's too much intelligence to go with their patient's crazy lol

In Tryp's case he'd need to be willing to actually talk about what's going on in a steam of consciousness format, which would mean him learning how to let go (without the assistance of substance abuse). He sees them as a means to an end rather than a means of seeking catharsis, and as long as he assumes he can do it himself he isn't really cooperating with them. If they are only told what he wants them to hear, then they'll always respond within the projected odds of that choice, meaning he will never be confronted with new experiences that might surprise him. 


Mine's a mess from having studied the same material they're trying to school me with. By bringing in my own research the division of power becomes more questionable much like we could imagine from having an amateur doctor go to the dentist's office. When you can cite their own tactics by name or theme and follow that with why they're doing it they get a bit flustered and start showing distracting weaknesses, which in time has me focusing on them and answering questions I've already given to other people openly as to see how they respond to the knowledge. 

Effectively, I use talking about myself as a tool to gauge differences in responses, so by answering their questions I end up with their information while I learn nothing I didn't already know about myself. I really don't mind talking about myself beyond not wanting to introduce the conversation with it, I see it as a black hole of reciprocity, but talking about myself is itself a weapon that can make it harder for them to do their job if I'm otherwise using it to focus on them instead. 

I mostly just get second opinions that match up to mine when I meet with these people, save for how they have the disorder scaled down to -affective rather than -phrenic from "how well I handle myself". 

Xena said: 

ddddddd said: 

Tell me how it is flawed. Also what are the better approaches? There are basically 3 relevant learning theories: classical and operant conditioning and model learning. Whats yours? 

 There were 5 last time I studied psych, actually.

I prefer the Humanistic school of thought, thx.

I also like Jean Shinodia Bolen/Joseph Campbell's approach to Jungian personality theory and ancestral memory, but I wouldn't recommend it for everybody.

 

Hint: psych should not be about controlling people, anyway. It's a tool, like a scalpel, that should be used to help paying customers remove an illness that plagues them. Not soak them for their cash.

 You are solely arguing on basis of emotions and subjective experiences, LOL. Im out :D

Erm... you say that as if you believe that schizoaffective is somehow less severely stigmatized than schizophrenia...

I guess both will get you labelled and cause ppl to back away, but with the latter, ppl will be getting their pointing and jeering fingers ready, whereas the former will have ppl reaching for a weapon as they back away.

Have you been wrongfully charged with any criminal offences since your new dx?

ddddddd said: 

Xena said: 

ddddddd said: 

Tell me how it is flawed. Also what are the better approaches? There are basically 3 relevant learning theories: classical and operant conditioning and model learning. Whats yours? 

 There were 5 last time I studied psych, actually.

I prefer the Humanistic school of thought, thx.

I also like Jean Shinodia Bolen/Joseph Campbell's approach to Jungian personality theory and ancestral memory, but I wouldn't recommend it for everybody.

 

Hint: psych should not be about controlling people, anyway. It's a tool, like a scalpel, that should be used to help paying customers remove an illness that plagues them. Not soak them for their cash.

 You are solely arguing on basis of emotions and subjective experiences, LOL. Im out :D

 Um... no.

I'm arguing as a person who studied the people helping fields (the Social Sciences) with the goal of actually helping. 

Not to battle over bullshit with some narcissist who triesta pretend he knows what he's talking about.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out  :D

In therapy conditioning is used to give the patient an understanding about the etiology of his or her disorder. It is used to identify and show contributing behavior that keeps the disorder going etc. You can use it on all levels of human experience, not just physical behavior. You just know nothing about what you are talking about. The therapist does not manipulate the patient at all but gives tools for self-help. Interventions that are based on learning theories have the best scientific evidence. Medicine should be evidence based or it becomes unscientific quackery. Everything that Xena says is erroneous and Im sure it has nothing to do with her being a woman.

@Xena I have a phd in psychology and work as a clinical therapist.

Xena said: 

Erm... you say that as if you believe that schizoaffective is somehow less severely stigmatized than schizophrenia...

Schizophrenia is treated as more severe than Schizoaffective, even if it's mostly over which precedes the other. 

With a schizophrenic, their sense of delusion precedes their mood swings. This means even when they're chill that they're effectively in their own world, and that their mood swings are a result of this mindset. 

With a schizoaffective, their mood swings precede their delusions. While calm they're effectively 'normal' thinkers (if you stretch the boundaries of that word), but it's otherwise more like a delusional form of bipolar disorder where the insanity kicks in with the heightened emotions. 

I'd argue that shit's nutbar up there all the time and that it's simply easier to keep it in line when my thoughts aren't racing, which they've taken to mean the thoughts only being present when I'm otherwise episodic. They're always there, but when less energetic it's more like an inner dialogue rather than how it can become more like speaking for all of them when there's racing thoughts and a motor mouth. 

Have you been wrongfully charged with any criminal offences since your new dx?

I've had this dx for a bit now, but thankfully any semblance of a criminal record's remained pretty clean. From not driving a car for instance I've never risked getting a speeding ticket, a DUI, being cited for not having car insurance, etc, and being a shut in otherwise has kept it pretty clean too. 

I generally stick with company if I'm doing things instead of going off by myself, as going off by myself can sometimes have me finding myself elsewhere mentally. 

ddddddd said: 

@Xena I have a phd in psychology and work as a clinical therapist.

 I find that difficult to believe  :D

Most professionals don't succumb to all-or-nothing thinking when approaching a disagreement.

'Everything that Xena says is erroneous (just wtf? lol) and I'm sure it has nothing to do with her being a woman.'

Like srsly? That's not how ppl in the helping professions talk to each other, guy.

I suspect you're in about the second year of your psych program, and you're poking around the 'paths bc you want smthg.

Maybe to write a paper, or just to feel better about yourself.

You are most certainly not a detached observer  :D

Xena said: 

ddddddd said: 

@Xena I have a phd in psychology and work as a clinical therapist.

 I find that difficult to believe  :D

Most professionals don't succumb to all-or-nothing thinking when approaching a disagreement.

 

'Everything that Xena says is erroneous (just wtf? lol) and I'm sure it has nothing to do with her being a woman.'

Like srsly? That's not how ppl in the helping professions talk to each other, guy.

 

I suspect you're in about the second year of your psych program, and you're poking around the 'paths bc you want smthg.

Maybe to write a paper, or just to feel better about yourself.

You are most certainly not a detached observer  :D

 

 you forget i'm not YOUR therapist who has to talk to you like to a baby because your fragile pd soul can't bear the truth