Sociopath Community

I obviously believe covert narcissist to be more better in a multitude of ways.

believe covert narcissist to be more better

believe covert narcissist

be more better

pls die

We differ a lot in severity if you're a covert narc. Not that anything you said was exactly wrong, but I'll point out our differences.

"I undermine my own achievements but only for people to boost me back up and tell me how amazing I am."

I couldn't take that approach, the opinions of others matters very little to me. I dont like receiving praise, even when it's due. I take more pride and even feel better about not getting any recognition, also not pursuing obtaining it.

"It's easy to get attention and I love it, although I'm sure attention and narcissistic supply are different."

Again, I just feel wrong getting it. No matter what I accomplish I have to force myself to accept it, otherwise I'd like to take my trophies and hide them in a corner.

"When it comes to using people though, I enjoy doing that."

I see using people as a sign of weakness and to me it's also unpractical. Why use others if it's something I can't do better than them myself. 

"Making people feel sorry for you so they'll help you with anything."

There's nothing I hate in this world more than someone else's pity. In the past, I've had some very outward aggressive reactions towards it. I've learned to regulate that, but it just gets under my skin.

"I personally just think I'm better than most people."

It's not good enough for me to think, I have to know. I have to prove I'm better than others just to function,

I personally stopped pursuing goal orientated activity. Now I just focus on three simple things. Sleeping, eating, and exercising. That's my own simple method of perfectionism. You don't even have to put much effort into doing those things.

I couldn't. I tried fathoming that as an example or usage of perfection and I started getting small spells of anxiety. 

"I'm not sure, having bipolar disorder and NPD together is different from being a regular covert."

Yeah, if you were a covert narc, I'd say you have a very mild case of it.

I'd look at a lot of things on covert narcissism, because my case of narcissism to yours is night and day. 

You forgot to mention the cons of covert narcissism.

First off, there isn't any rest. There is never an achievement or status good enough, coverts have a serious problem with undermining and downplaying their own achievements. Perfection if achieved, is at it's best expected. Narc supply comes and goes, doesn't yield as much "fuel" to Coverts as it does to Malignant Narcs. Secondly, obtaining any sort of recognition isn't desired by coverts because of that sense of entitlement, they feel they can achieve more and wont settle for any less recognition than what they aspire to achieve. So no matter what they accomplish  there's always another goal, there just isn't a ceiling. Think "I can do better, I am better" 

I will say that this approach to most things does actually make you better than most people at whatever you are trying to achieve, coverts are almost notorious for blind ambition. Which sounds good, endless motivation towards whatever you want but its not. The only way I can explain it is mental masochism, I myself have pushed myself working/perfection to the point of a nervous breakdown. I saw it coming for months and was helpless to stop it.  Coverts at the end of the day are their own worst enemies, despite the time and attention they put into their goals, the act of pursuing that goal itself will set them back farther eventually if their insecurities dont.

The real shitty part about coverts is that they are individuals whose fantasies, whether conscious or unconscious, are indeed grandiose, inflated, unrealistic, and self-centered. But they have the cruel reality of realizing and being fully aware that these aren't actually real. Yet they still, both subconscious and consciously expect to live up to these fantasy standards and have to, to keep a hold on their sanity. It's comparable to that movie where the bus full of people loses it's brakes and yes is moving fast but can only accelerate. Coverts are eventually doomed to fail and if the case is severe enough, even a minor setback can bring weeks or months of depression/insecurity.

So when you say coverts are better than malignants I have to disagree with you there. It all depends on the person, the circumstances and the degree of narcissism. I will give coverts an edge considering they spend most of their time introspecting on their insecurities, leading to a higher chance of recognizing their issues and recovery over malignants who just focus on projecting a certain image onto others. 

Which one do you believe is better and for what reasons (here's a simple read about covert narcissist as well: http://infoselfdevelopment.com/covert-narcissism-know-your-emotional-abuser/)? Also, I'm a covert narcissist but I also have bipolar type II with rapid cycling. That being said, I obviously believe covert narcissist to be more better in a multitude of ways. For one, we're not as overt about our grandiosity so it's a lot easier to get closer to people since were so easily liked. On top of that, narcissistic supply last so much longer since no one actually suspects your a narcissist. 

Basically, I can tell everyone I have bipolar type II and make them feel sympathy for me and constantly get the attention I require. From there it's all about making sure people never find out my true intentions, no matter what they are. I consider myself smarter, faster, stronger, and just about better then anyone I've ever met due to constantly devaluing others so I can feel superior at all times. Just like a more overt or extroverted narcissist, I do tend to envy others and idealize them, I'm just more secretive about it. 

It's also a lot more easier to fake things like emotion and lie about things because I know people will usually believe me, unless it's something extremely out of the ordinary. There's also less of a chance of me being discovered for what I truly am, since I'm introverted about all my narcissistic thoughts. Most people consider me to be ordinary just like everyone else which I personally hate but also don't mind as long as they don't know that I'm actually a narcissist. Overall I believe covert and introverted narcissist are more superior than there opposite due to there ability to remain undetected for long periods of time and essentially survive longer.

Last but not least, here's some information conforming bipolar disorder and cluster b disorders occur together: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15766300 & http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1519417-overview#aw2aab6b2b5

"First off, there isn't any rest. There is never an achievement or status good enough, coverts have a serious problem with undermining and downplaying their own achievements. Perfection if achieved, is at it's best expected. Narc supply comes and goes, doesn't yield as much "fuel" to Coverts as it does to Malignant Narcs. Secondly, obtaining any sort of recognition isn't desired by coverts because of that sense of entitlement, they feel they can achieve more and wont settle for any less recognition than what they aspire to achieve. So no matter what they accomplish there's always another goal, there just isn't a ceiling. Think "I can do better, I am better"

I undermine my own achievements but only for people to boost me back up and tell me how amazing I am. Also supply depends on how you get it, I actually don't no too much about narcissistic supply and am not really worried about it. I just no attention seeking is a pathological trait of narcissist according to the DSM-5. It's easy to get attention and I love it, although I'm sure attention and narcissistic supply are different. When it comes to using people though, I enjoy doing that.

Making people feel sorry for you so they'll help you with anything. For example take my grandfather. He has two sons one which he favors one more than the other. But even though I've spent over $4,000 on his credit card, he's still offering me the house on his will over his own sons, which he obviously most not like as much as me lol. When it comes to recognition, I don't even know why your telling me that. I personally just think I'm better than most people.

"I will say that this approach to most things does actually make you better than most people at whatever you are trying to achieve, coverts are almost notorious for blind ambition. Which sounds good, endless motivation towards whatever you want but its not. The only way I can explain it is mental masochism, I myself have pushed myself working/perfection to the point of a nervous breakdown. I saw it coming for months and was helpless to stop it. Coverts at the end of the day are their own worst enemies, despite the time and attention they put into their goals, the act of pursuing that goal itself will set them back farther eventually if their insecurities don't."

I personally stopped pursuing goal orientated activity. Now I just focus on three simple things. Sleeping, eating, and exercising. That's my own simple method of perfectionism. You don't even have to put much effort into doing those things.

"The real shitty part about coverts is that they are individuals whose fantasies, whether conscious or unconscious, are indeed grandiose, inflated, unrealistic, and self-centered. But they have the cruel reality of realizing and being fully aware that these aren't actually real. Yet they still, both subconscious and consciously expect to live up to these fantasy standards and have to, to keep a hold on their sanity. It's comparable to that movie where the bus full of people loses it's brakes and yes is moving fast but can only accelerate. Coverts are eventually doomed to fail and if the case is severe enough, even a minor setback can bring weeks or months of depression/insecurity."

I'm not sure, having bipolar disorder and NPD together is different from being a regular covert. Ever since I discovered I was bipolar it felt right, but also like something was missing. Since I discovered I was a narcissist as well, I've felt so happy and basically proud. It's like all my thoughts and behavior have been explained not by one disorder but by a combination of two. So by discovering I'm a narcissist, it's triggered my euphoric hypomania lately, leaving me elated most of the time. 

"So when you say coverts are better than malignants I have to disagree with you there. It all depends on the person, the circumstances and the degree of narcissism. I will give coverts an edge considering they spend most of their time introspecting on their insecurities, leading to a higher chance of recognizing their issues and recovery over malignants who just focus on projecting a certain image onto others."

Also, I'm not referring to malignant narcissist specifically because I don't know what they are. But I understand your viewpoint I suppose. I am what I would consider a bipolar narcissist, a hybrid between to amazing disorders. So I feel better than both types of narcissist, since I also have bipolar disorder and I'm a covert narcissist. 

I guess this whole thread is extremely ironic since I might be more of a overt narcissist than cover narcissist lol. The DSM-5 criteria through me off though. It's basically stating that grandiosity can be either overt or covert, but that wouldn't determine you being an overt or covert narcissist. So I'm probably more of a overt narcissist which is probably why I feel so proud about being one and even to the point of bragging about it

So I've finally figured it out. Basically I used to be a covert narcissist as a teen but have developed more into a over narcissist as a young adult due to the fact that I know I'm a narcissist. I'm also not even bipolar and really just made the whole thing up lol.

by ShogoMakishima

Which one do you believe is better and for what reasons (here's a simple read about covert narcissist as well: http://infoselfdevelopment.com/covert-narcissism-know-your-emotional-abuser/)? Also, I'm a covert narcissist but I also have bipolar type II with rapid cycling.

I know people in mania have grandious delusions, think they can achieve aything, think they are awesome, etc. Are you sure you're not just bipolar?

by Systematic

You forgot to mention the cons of covert narcissism.

 From your description, covert narcs are just type A personalities with delusional goals.

Alright, I'm going to re-write my argument but for overt, arrogant, extroverted, and grandiose narcissist while using the DSM-5 symptoms. I personally like the DSM-5 diagnosis a lot better because it creates more of a threshold for the disorder as apposed to the DSM-IV's black and white approach. The first part of the DSM-5 symptoms starts with A., which basically states that there's a significant impairment in personally functioning.

It starts with 1., Impairments in self function in either a. or b., a. is basically a lack of identity so I'll start with that. I believe having no real identity is great. I'm able to blend in and fit in with the any desired group of people I feel at the time as long as I keep up that persona. It's basically given me the ability to become an expert at acting and playing any role for what ever purpose it was required for at the time. So that's always fun, and next up is b.

Not having any major self-direction is b., it says that goal-setting is based off of gaining approval from others. It says some other things as well but I'll just use that for my upcoming examples. I believe having no self-direction is great because I can take interest in numerous activities, and develop a specific knowledge about those things just enough to do them properly and build a new talent. I can also choose to be passionate about one specific thing, like music for example, while learning about something else. Now, I know that's pretty basic multi-tasking but it just my own view on self-direction as well.

Next up would be 2., impairments in interpersonal functioning. The first one up is a., which states a lack of empathy. I believe that I do have a lack of empathy for just about anyone that I've ever met. I notice there's people dying in the world all around me, people are suffering silently from there own mental illnesses, people are starving, lost, and lonely. As long as none of those things are happening to me, I'm as happy as can be. Lack of empathy is personally my favorite trait because it allows me to use people like the worthless trash they are and feel no guilt or negative emotion in return.

The second part of number 2., is b., which is not having real intimacy. I used to think intimacy was just about romantic relationships which is of course not true. Intimacy can be the emotional connection between to friends or even family members. I personally have withdrawn emotional from people for very specific reasons that are not really important. By doing so it's allowed me to not grow attached to people and focus more on myself and my own needs, another positive attribute in my opinion.

Ultimately part A. consist of 1. and 2., each having a. or b. The four a.'s and b.'s would be identity, self-direction, empathy, and intimacy. You only need one of those things to be impaired from both 1. and 2. Next up would be part B., the pathological traits. Which leads to 1., antagonism.

It has a. and b. just like the previous parts, except both a. and b. are required traits. Grandiosity is a., which I personally enjoy just as much as having little empathy for people. Before I start describing how I feel about grandiosity, here's a distinct difference between grandiosity and grandiose delusions: "Grandiosity is distinct from grandiose delusions, in that the sufferer has insight into their loss of touch with reality (they are aware that their behavior is considered unusual)." Looking at myself, I usually always consider myself greater than others, like a king or especially a god. I know it's not true, but I still love thinking in that manner.

Next up would be b., which is attention seeking. I actually love being the center of attention no matter where I am or what I'm doing. It's why being a professional DJ would be amazing. To stand in front of a hundred thousand people and be the sole focus of them all. Not literally, but just in general terms. That's the basis of Part A. and B. of the DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder.

There's also a C., D., and E. The first one which is C., states that: "The impairments in personality functioning and the individual's personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations." The next one which is D., states that: "The impairments in personality functioning and the individual's personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual's developmental stage or socio-cultural environment." Finally, the last one which is E., states that: "The impairments in personality functioning and the individual's personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma).

The last three parts of the criteria are really un-necessary for me to go into since the whole point of this post was not based on diagnosis, but just certain characteristics and traits of the disorder itself. What I believe separates a covert or shy narcissist from a more overtly grandiose and even arrogant narcissist is simply extroversion and introversion. To finalize everything I've said, I would now have to say that I believe overt narcissist to be more superior specifically for there ability to have the same introversion as a covert narcissist but to overt all there narcissistic behavior, which the covert narcissist cannot to do until he decides to change his behavior and recover from the disorder or become a more overt narcissist like I did.

"Again, I just feel wrong getting it. No matter what I accomplish I have to force myself to accept it, otherwise I'd like to take my trophies and hide them in a corner."

Well attention seeking behavior is a part of narcissism whether your overt or covert, you just get in different ways.

"Again, I just feel wrong getting it. No matter what I accomplish I have to force myself to accept it, otherwise I'd like to take my trophies and hide them in a corner."

Narcissism is also all about using people wether overt or covert as well. For things like social status, wealth, and success.

"There's nothing I hate in this world more than someone else's pity. In the past, I've had some very outward aggressive reactions towards it. I've learned to regulate that, but it just gets under my skin."

Being a narcissist can be all about playing the victim, it's what gets you out of lots of situations and also what you want from time to time.

"It's not good enough for me to think, I have to know. I have to prove I'm better than others just to function"

Maybe there's a deeper reason for that?

"I couldn't. I tried fathoming that as an example or usage of perfection and I started getting small spells of anxiety."

Ever since I've come to my final conclusion about my own diagnosis, life has become simple. Everything I was confused about suddenly became clear. All my fears and anxieties turned into calmness and assurance. I've spent so long trying to diagnose myself and have wasted so much time, but now that I've finally got a conclusion on not just what I have but what I am, I can focus my time an attention on what ever I please or even nothing at all.

"Yeah, if you were a covert narc, I'd say you have a very mild case of it."

It could be that I'm a lot more inverted, introverted, and more of a covert than you would believe me to be.

"I'd look at a lot of things on covert narcissism, because my case of narcissism to yours is night and day."

Try to keep in mind I'm not just a narcissist but also bipolar. Mood disorders and cluster b disorders can occur together and it's not as uncommon as you would think. I'm also basing a lot of the narcissistic behavior off the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria which is how I came to the conclusion I'm a narcissist. So I know for sure I'm a narcissist, just not for sure wether I'm overt or covert. I guess you could say I'm an overt narcissist with covert grandiosity. Check the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria for NPD out here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder#DSM-5