"Instead they got almost hostile."
If they get pissed off that means they've already given up. Tempers being lost in the past have been a boon for getting things into their heads once they become exhausted, unless they're the walled off avoidant type or something like it. Sometimes people can't help but become emotional when what's solidified into their skulls is fracked.
"Calling it ethics is a comfortable way of self-deception."
There is still an established standard for it in areas like science anyway, so in that sense at least it's not just a matter of the self.
"Do you have a fundamental idea about right and wrong?"
Right and wrong more often come up from my OCD/OCPD symptoms, so I try to disregard the notion fairly often since it's needlessly self-crippling. If the motives can be explained through a lens of logic devoid of emotional appraisal, then I'm more likely to act on them and profess their value. Emotional value I tend to push as important mostly for the sake of having an outlet or a form of artistic expression, beyond that it's questionably important.
"How do you constitute your beliefs?"
By working to separate the crazy from the sane thoughts while remaining on the lookout for signs and symptoms of episodes. It's much easier these days. Beyond that a lot of it sorts itself out through research and conversation.
"Are you capable of considering the possibility that your beliefs are nothing special?"
My beliefs constitute the very notion within themselves through an offshoot of Nihilism. I learned quite early that it's best to not trust myself, and if I can't trust myself how much can I trust my own beliefs? I hold onto what I believe since I figure it makes more sense than the other bits I've picked up, seeing if another perspective can come along to shift where I stand as has happened in the past.
"Do they provide you with security, self esteem or something else?"
They help me not take things so damn seriously. If I let myself take something seriously I tend to go overboard, while believing that nothing really matters is somewhat freeing and sobering from that compulsion of sorts. With nothing meaning anything I'm free to do as I please instead of living anal-retentively by some bullshit code I could risk seeing as bigger than myself.
"Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone would follow your beliefs?"
I believe it's fun to hear what other people's beliefs are, they're more entertaining than mine, so an entire world of people thinking like I do would be super boring and depressing. Only plus I can imagine is a smaller population, as I've seen more often than not that my beliefs aren't for everybody.
"What would it take to make you drop them?"
A perspective that makes more sense to me than my current one, likely phrased similarly to the fashion of how I think as opposed to reeking of their own voice. My exploration of beliefs tends to be a feedback situation of bouncing ideas off of people, doing research, then going back to bouncing ideas off them before further researching the topic until one of the two flows of information stop.
10
posts
"Meanwhile I volunteer myself for difficult trials without complaining."
Volunteering for it gives you the belief that you possess some level of control over it, while a person who believes things happen to them was likely not asking for it (in the literal sense anyway). Trials you aren't volunteering for are not as easy to face. There's a lot in common between the person who "chooses" to face trials and the person who "chooses" to avoid them when you dissect their motivations, usually in the fashion of dulling the pain through the believed illusion of choice.
"Until I come into conflict with someone who chooses the opposite path."
Opposites though exist as a way to feel tested. If they are strong within their opposition, it grants you a rival of sorts closer to the whole Dragon vs Tiger thing.
"Do you have a fundamental idea about right and wrong?"
I do, I used to follow it diligently before, but now I'm starting to see it's hindering me more and more as time goes on. I've taken a more open, relaxed approach to things now. Occasionally I'm tempted to revert whenever I'm faced with consequences I would've avoided in the old mindset or seeing how that old approach would've been rewarded.
"How do you constitute your beliefs?"
From the gains they've given me as well as the lessons I've learned through them. It consist mostlys of controlling and suppressing natural temptations/desires while trading them for a more rigorous task that ideally, yields beneficial results.
"Are you capable of considering the possibility that your beliefs are nothing special?"
I don't expect anyone to acknowledge them. Whenever I see someone with a polar opposite behavior I have a problem with openly displaying my thoughts on them. It's only however when they try to claim something they aren't entitled to. Such as someone complaining how hard and miserable their life is when in actuality their problems are nothing. Meanwhile I volunteer myself for difficult trials without complaining.
"Why do you stick to them? Do they provide you with security, self esteem or something else?"
This certain behavior is like an express way to financial success. Temptations are normally easy to succumb to, while the right choice usually involves the most work. So if your ideology includes avoiding temptations while always looking to challenge yourself, it puts out good results.
"Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone would follow your beliefs?"
No, I believe everyone needs their own form of self government to optimize their life potential/happiness. I appreciate the diversity of the beliefs of others. Until I come into conflict with someone who chooses the opposite path.
"What would it take to make you drop them?"
I honesty dont think it's possible. I'd die for my beliefs willingly.
I recently had a talk with friends about ethics.
After a while it turned into a discussion between me and them because I questioned some of their opinions about what is right and wrong to see how they justify it. I didn't get any satisfying answer. Instead they got almost hostile. I would have expected that even people with a very strong sense for what they think is right and wrong can reflect about the possibility that their beliefs might be just another opinion.
In my experience most people hold on to their view because it makes life more comfortable and provides them with reasons and excuses to keep doing what they like to do. Calling it ethics is a comfortable way of self-deception.
Here are my questions for you:
Do you have a fundamental idea about right and wrong?
How do you constitute your beliefs?
Are you capable of considering the possibility that your beliefs are nothing special?
Do they provide you with security, self esteem or something else?
Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone would follow your beliefs?
What would it take to make you drop them?
And my Answers:
Do you have a fundamental idea about right and wrong?
There are some rules and principles that I think are valid.
For example I think that our thoughts and actions determine who we will become to a much greater extent than we are aware of. Since we are a part of the experience of people around us we also affect them in a similar way. And I think that most negative emotions like anger or hatred oppose happiness and a fulfilled life.
Thus certain ways of life will reduce the quality of life for myself and others in the long run.
How do you constitute your beliefs?
Mostly I hold on to them because they worked for me and helped me to change myself in positive ways.
Are you capable of considering the possibility that your beliefs are nothing special?
I don't think they are universally true or true at all. They are just a part of the model of reality my brain dreamed up.
Why do you stick to them? Do they provide you with security, self esteem or something else?
Like stated above I think they helped me.
Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone would follow your beliefs?
I don't know.
What would it take to make you drop them?
Some experience that causes me to doubt that they are actually working for me.
by ret
And my Answers:
Do you have a fundamental idea about right and wrong? How do you constitute your beliefs?
I peek at others and contemptuously comply
Are you capable of considering the possibility that your beliefs are nothing special?
They often are different....but, I agree they are nothing special. I mean, who really gives a fuck what I think while they are busy giving a fuck about what they think
Why do you stick to them? Do they provide you with security, self esteem or something else?
They let me roam around in a much larger cage (example: my current community compared to prison)
Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone would follow your beliefs?
I think the world would be a better place without humans
What would it take to make you drop them?
Loss of roots
Value systems, morals and ethics have always been an interest of mine. Back in college I was involved in some philosophy and public speaking/debate type things where we explored such topics.
Most of them are fixed and based on a set of defined good and bad outcomes. Or they could be based on societal paradigms and ideas of human responsibility and freewill.
Never subscribed to any morals or ethical imperatives, but it did give me a better understanding of people.
Do you have a fundamental idea about right and wrong?
Yes and no. I don't have ideas that can be written down on paper, I Just go with my gut. If something I do makes me feel guilty, it's wrong of me. Of course, there are things that would force me to go against what my gut tells me. Like if I have reason to believe that not doing a certain action would result in a consequence that would bring even more guilt (ie stealing medicine to save my dying child lol)
How do you constitute your beliefs?
They're more like instincts or intuition than beliefs.
Are you capable of considering the possibility that your beliefs are nothing special?
I know they're not special.
Do they provide you with security, self esteem or something else?
self-control
Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone would follow your beliefs?
What would it take to make you drop them?
No. Loss of sanity.
Do you have a fundamental idea about right and wrong?
If there is one thing that living in this world has taught me, it is that what you thought was true yesterday is blasphemy today, for societal values are constantly changing, and anyone who thinks that there is an absolute truth is deluded. It bothers me how, in school, you are clearly taught history from a standpoint of what is right and what is wrong, leaving you no chance to make up your own mind. The way that they teach us, if something were grievously wrong with this world, and no one told you, then how would you know? You wouldn't. Not unless you figure out how to think for yourself.
TL;DR: There is no such thing as an absolute moral truth.
How do you constitute your beliefs?
I'm not sure if I really have any beliefs. All I really want to do in life is make myself as happy as possible in any way that I know how. If I have to walk over other people in order to achieve that, I don't really mind. If I think about it, most of the principles that I follow are for my own good. I follow the orders of those greater than me, for I have learned that it will be sure to bring me grief if I don't. I don't waste resources and pollute the environment, for why should I shit in my own backyard? I am (usually) kind to other people, because if I am not, then I am indirectly shitting in my own backyard again. It's hard for a lot of people to get that one, but it really makes sense if you think about it. All of the people in this world rely on each other, and everything that each one of us does eventually affects everyone else in this world in some way. Karma isn't just some Buddhist spiritual shit, it actually works.. But if I thought that I could get away with it without harming myself, I would break all of the above rules in an instant.
Are you capable of considering the possibility that your beliefs are nothing special?
Sure. It's not like they are absolute values, just what works for me.
Do they provide you with security, self esteem or something else?
The idea is to bring myself happiness...
Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone would follow your beliefs?
I think so.
What would it take to make you drop them?
If I were confronted with evidence that they did not work the way that they are supposed to, I would drop them.
.
"Opposites though exist as a way to feel tested. If they are strong within their opposition, it grants you a rival of sorts closer to the whole Dragon vs Tiger thing."
Yeah, the eagerness to have something like a rival gets me at times. Problem in the past with just being over-confrontive and prolonging arguments I had already won. I learned quick to suppress those urges when that eager feeling came during differences within my social circle.
"Trials you aren't volunteering for are not as easy to face."
It's those ones I look forward too the most. Part of me putting myself through trials is to be prepared for the actual ones.
"There's a lot in common between the person who "chooses" to face trials and the person who "chooses" to avoid them when you dissect their motivations, usually in the fashion of dulling the pain through the believed illusion of choice."
Agreed.
Do you have a fundamental idea about right and wrong?
I know what society deems to be right and wrong.
How do you constitute your beliefs?
I don't hold any beliefs.
Are you capable of considering the possibility that your beliefs are nothing special?
Couldn't care less either way.
Do they provide you with security, self esteem or something else?
They provide me with nothing.
Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone would follow your beliefs?
No
What would it take to make you drop them?
Who knows
10
posts